US Politics Mega-thread - Page 417

On July 06 2018 02:11 Mohdoo wrote:


I think the recent political changes are partially intended to curb this sort of stuff. Complete political control with suppression of speech, internet filtering...etc etc...They all serve to help delay stuff like you are describing. And with Trump being such an easy rallying point for "fuck this shared enemy", I don't think China will struggle to keep the proletariat in check.

At the end of the day, China knows giving in will only make things worse. That's the biggest thing. China being the first to blink will absolutely ruin them for many many years. It would do more damage than anything else. It would also hugely undercut Xi on the worldstage. There's just no way. Things can get pretty bad before it is actually a "problem". I think there is a big difference between things getting worse and China "taking damage" so to speak. China can act with so much more unity and cohesion, too. They are more nimble, they will outmaneuver us, and they can take more damage before blinking.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the fact that they are playing a delicate game with their economy. But I still think their political system and other institutions will allow them to take a lot of damage without needing to blink.

On July 06 2018 02:17 TheTenthDoc wrote:
The second things go really tangibly south, Trump will just blame the Democrats. And Fox News will agree with him and make the Democrats the enemy on the tariffs just in time for the midterms. It wouldn't be the first time they've blamed Democrats from not stopping them from doing something stupid (*cough Boehner).

Maybe-and I mean maybe-if Trump's approval drops to sub-35 again, he'll about face. But otherwise that seems like the obvious play for them.

On July 06 2018 02:29 Plansix wrote:
Blaming the democrats is not going to turn out voters, which is what they need in the midterms. And the voters likely to show up for democrats are not going to be swayed by the party in power blaming the minority.

On July 06 2018 02:48 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I mean, whether it works or not is another question. But if we're going by past experience that's what Trump will do unless he sees a tank in his approval rating. This man and his entourage spent a week claiming the Senate Democrats were stopping them from reuniting families after their policy itself said "we know it will separate families."

Also, blaming the Democrats is exactly how they turned out their base in 2010-2016, and I'm not sure they've grasped it plays very differently when they control both parts of the legislature and the White House-and I'm not sure it actually does play differently to their base. There's plenty of interviews with Trump voters whose jobs have been cut consequent to his policies who don't blame the man.

On July 05 2018 18:07 GreenHorizons wrote:


How about I tell you what I mean by "police"?

First, I don't mean any social mechanism developed to encourage adherence to agreed upon social conventions. What I do mean is any agency or individual that would self identify as "the police". As to how we go about encouraging adherence to agreed upon social conventions, I wouldn't call or develop anything like what you or others mean when they say police.That's sufficient for me to call it abolition.

If I understand correctly, the premise is: I mean reform, you mean abolition.

What actual functions of ICE are you or whoever this "Pro ICE abolition/anti-police abolition" crowd is actually calling for being abolished?

EDIT: To put it more plainly

What aspects of immigration and customs enforcement are you calling for the abolition of? presumably all of it right? or what you want is reform?

On July 06 2018 02:51 farvacola wrote:
I don't think Trump's base will play a determinative role in the coming election anyhow, the result relies far more on the turnout of others.

On July 06 2018 03:03 Mohdoo wrote:


Agreed. All the 20 year old edge lords like "what can Trump even do anyway, I ain't giving my precious vote to anyone non-socialist" are now a complete mess calling for violent revolution lmao. MAYBE YOU SHOULD VOTE GUYS. All the people on my FB who couldn't be bothered to vote are the ones who are panicking the most. It's like the entire world is blowing up and the sky is falling in their eyes.

I am at least happy that this new generation of entitled shitbags are being given a dose of reality. Elections matter. Show up and don't get snobby.

On July 06 2018 03:20 Plansix wrote:

Some folks I know were very interested in voting for someone who made them feel good about their vote. And this is my generation. But I think they got the message that politicians only care about voters that show up consistently.

On July 06 2018 03:26 Mohdoo wrote:


This is the danger of people feeling like the way they vote lends them some sort of image/identity/importance. Voting is a responsibility and obligation, not a way to pat yourself on the back and pretend you are an extension of whatever you voted for. People use voting as a way to feel a part of something. It is disgraceful.

On July 06 2018 03:26 Mohdoo wrote:


This is the danger of people feeling like the way they vote lends them some sort of image/identity/importance. Voting is a responsibility and obligation, not a way to pat yourself on the back and pretend you are an extension of whatever you voted for. People use voting as a way to feel a part of something. It is disgraceful.

Mexico on Thursday began imposing its second stage of retaliatory tariffs on dozens of U.S. goods in response to President Donald Trump’s duties on Mexican steel and aluminum exports to the United States.

The tariffs complete Mexico’s two-part retaliation on almost $3 billion worth of U.S. products. The Mexican government, which first announced its retaliation list last month, started the action on June 5 by eliminating preferential tariffs established under NAFTA on a number of products, including pork, potatoes and whiskey. The Mexican government confirmed on Thursday that the increased tariffs are going into effect.

Most of Mexico’s retaliatory tariffs will be imposed on U.S. agricultural exports, such as apples, cranberries and various cheeses. Mexico is also targeting a number of American steel products. The majority of products on the list will face tariffs between 15 and 25 percent.

Mexico’s retaliation comes after the Trump administration decided in May to end its exemptions to the tariffs on steel and aluminum for U.S. allies, such as Canada and the European Union. Canada and the EU have also pursued retaliatory tariffs on a total of almost $16 billion worth of U.S. products, such as peanut butter and kitchenware.

Mexico has said the duties will remain in place as long as the Trump administration maintains its tariffs on Mexican steel and aluminum.

Trump’s steel tariffs add to the growing trade tensions between the U.S. and Mexico that Mexico’s President-elect Andrés Manuel López Obrador will have to deal with in the coming months and when he takes office on Dec. 1.

López Obrador has not directly addressed Trump’s tariffs, but has repeatedly said he wants to avoid a trade war with the U.S., given its importance to Mexican consumers and producers. The leftist former Mexico City mayor has also said he wants to have a relationship built on mutual respect with Trump, but it’s unlikely that Trump’s trade policy will go a long way toward harboring close ties with López Obrador.

Talks to renegotiate NAFTA have largely been at a standstill since the the tariffs were put into effect. Both Mexican Economy Minister Ildefonso Guajardo and Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland have emphasized that the tariffs are on a separate track from the NAFTA talks. However, many regard the U.S. decision to slap the duties on Mexico and Canada as a pressure tactic for them to accept a deal.

Former Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez called the tariffs part of a “gun-to-the-head negotiating style,” that’s only making it more difficult for Mexico and Canada to agree to something “without committing suicide domestically.”

Mexico strategically selected products that “don’t have an important impact on national consumption, that it doesn’t have an important impact on the topic of inflation, and that you have alternative sources,” Guajardo said when the retaliatory tariffs were first announced.

Products were chosen “that have implications in some districts where there’s important congressmen and senators ... because, finally, the effect will fall on voters and citizens that live in the districts of people who have a voice and vote in the American Congress,” Guajardo added.

Mexico’s decision to impose duties on cheeses, for example, hits House Speaker Paul Ryan’s home state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin produces almost one-third of all U.S. cheese. Mexico’s tariffs also hit steel producers in Indiana, Vice President Mike Pence’s state, and motor boat builders in Florida, Sen. Marco Rubio’s state.

U.S. pork producers are expected to feel the loss even harder, as Mexico increased its tariffs on U.S. pork to 20 percent. Pork producers were already facing 10 percent duties from Mexico’s move to remove NAFTA preferential tariffs for some American products. Mexico bought almost 25 percent of all U.S. pork shipments last year.

American dairy producers have been vocal critics of Mexico being hit with the tariffs, given that Mexico accounts for about 25 percent of all U.S. dairy exports, and purchased almost $400 million of U.S. cheese last year.

The National Milk Producers Federation, U.S. Dairy Export Council and more than 50 other dairy groups wrote to Trump last month to urge him against the tariffs on Mexico, “a model for open dairy trade with the United States.” The tariffs would largely help the European Union, which just recently wrapped up talks with Mexico for an expanded trade deal, the groups added.

“Unfortunately, our share of the Mexican market is in grave jeopardy,” the groups said.

On July 06 2018 03:48 Plansix wrote:
Man, election reform would be such dope platform. Move primaries to the weekends and make election day a nation day off for both midterm and general elections. Reform campaign finance, fix super PAC reporting, the list goes on.

Edit: It appears China is also delaying shipments of goods to the US as part of their response to the tariffs, even on non-tariff goods. And canceling an order for 14 billion is soybeans.