EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3701
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
Know what is deeply rooted in our nation's history? Slavery. That entire line of thinking fundamentally rejects all change based on the idea that the way our ancestors did things can never be wrong or be improved upon. + Show Spoiler + Know what else isn't deeply rooted in the nation's history? The right to own and carry a gun without being regulated by the government. That's less than 20 years old. | ||
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Introvert
United States5028 Posts
Also people could actually read Dobbs. Or let's start older, maybe actually read the Heller decision or any of the scholarship since. The right of a person to "bear" arms was barely litigated because it was so universally accepted. Just like it's more and more OK to point out that Roe was a bad decision in terms of the law, it's now more and more ok (i.e. obvious) that an individual right to bear arms has always exited in this country and the 2nd amendment made it explicit. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On June 29 2022 12:19 Kyadytim wrote: That "deeply rooted in our nation's history" verbiage is one of the biggest giveaways that the conservative justices had a ruling they wanted to make and were looking for ways to justify it, because our nation doesn't have a deeply rooted history. It's not even 250 years old. Know what else isn't deeply rooted in our nation's history? Women having the right to vote. Also disallowing poll taxes. Both of those amendments to the constitution happened in the second half of the nation's existence. There's still people alive who probably remember having to pay a poll tax. Know what is deeply rooted in our nation's history? Slavery. That entire line of thinking fundamentally rejects all change based on the idea that the way our ancestors did things can never be wrong or be improved upon. + Show Spoiler + Know what else isn't deeply rooted in the nation's history? The right to own and carry a gun without being regulated by the government. That's less than 20 years old. Even if it did have a deeply rooted history, ***Old beliefs are more likely to be wrong than right*** Appeals to tradition are defined as logical fallacies for a reason. We have learned and grown over the years. sucking the founding fathers dicks and stuff like that is pure lunacy. We should look at something that was decided 200 years ago and think to ourselves "wait, maybe that was really stupid based on all the other forms of ignorance and barbarism back then" | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18438 Posts
On June 29 2022 07:21 ChristianS wrote: LL isn’t a Republican. “Contrarian” might be a closer description. @LL: Unless I’m missing something, the proposed export controls are negative sum by your own admission, whereas confiscation is at least zero sum? What other numbers are you wanting an economist to run? It just seems like if your motivations are fundamentally confiscatory, we might as well be direct about it. Well, he's only contrarían to the west. All glory to mother Russia is also part of his program. He's pretty smart and has interesting ideas, just never forget it comes from a place where he thinks everything in the west is utter shit. Whether it's the EU, UK, Space Program, Democrats or Republicans, he will cheer against it. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14208 Posts
On June 29 2022 10:24 BlackJack wrote: Frankly I'm wondering where are the people that should be rejoicing over these higher gas prices. If people care about climate change and want others to burn fewer fossil fuels then they should be satisfied that gas prices are going up. Higher prices should lead to lower demand, however inelastic it may be. Those people don't exist. They're just strawmen you see from fascists trying to paint people who believe science is real as eco terrorists. What euros need to do to break up their confusion on the gas issue is to look at the best selling cars in the us and the breakdown on car classes that are selling. Conservatives are reeing particularity hard because most of.them have a mpg under 20 and a lot have it under 15 on their trick or suv they drive on paved roads. They also commute about an hour or more a day. If you told them it wouldn't be as much of an issue if they had a prius or another car with reasonable mph they'd punch you in the face and call you a gay slur. Source me that happened to me. I get quadruple the mpg these guys get and they think I'm the idiot that needs a new car. | ||
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Slydie
2006 Posts
How is it in other countries? I know that when the Christian party were in the previous right wing Norwegian government, they pushed really hard to get some symbolic restriction on abortion rights, and succeeded. The courts played absolutely no part in it. Having states with different court systems does complicate things, but it should still be up to politicians. The SCOTUS are too few and have too much power. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1967 Posts
Your proportion of intolerant hateful "Christians" is just too high to have a healthy consensus in society. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14208 Posts
On June 29 2022 16:14 Slydie wrote: A part of me actually agrees with the SC decision. Abortion rights should not be decided in courts, politicians should make laws which leave no room for interpretation. How is it in other countries? I know that when the Christian party were in the previous right wing Norwegian government, they pushed really hard to get some symbolic restriction on abortion rights, and succeeded. The courts played absolutely no part in it. Having states with different court systems does complicate things, but it should still be up to politicians. The SCOTUS are too few and have too much power. We can't trust half the states not to turn into theocracies. We had to fight a war to stop them from exercising their "states rights" to slavery. The scotus knows what they're doing and you should listen to what the right feels about this signalling from them. How sure are we that women get to own property in the Constitution? By the reasoning scotus used in this case there's no reason to believe that women should be able to own property or divorce their husbands without their husbands permission to. Remember the biggest threat to a woman's life while pregnant is being murdered by the one that impregnanted them. Women are going to die from this ruling and they don't care. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22570 Posts
Not going to work is not an option, so while people might not take a trip to the part because of fuel costs, most travel is not likely to be effected because there is no alternative. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6316 Posts
On June 29 2022 04:24 LegalLord wrote: First point would be true under normal circumstances, but I'm not sure it is right now. The big oil providers have been very clear about that they will minimize investment and maximize returns to shareholders in a way that differs quite a bit from historical/standard market dynamics. And even reduced prices (say, a 40% price reduction based on this export control) would not leave any viable domestic oil producers in a particularly bad financial position. On the second point: while true, that's Europe's problem. They got themselves into this mess, they can dig themselves out. Cheaper prices for American consumers matters a lot more for any US government that cares about its own survival. I don't believe this time is really different. The oil market has followed a boom/bust cycle for a while due to the large investments required for drilling new oil. In the 2000's there were predictions that oil would never go below 100$ a barrel again leading to large scale wasteful investment and the low oil prices of not so long ago. I think if we see a sustained high level of oil price investment will follow but I understand if you or others think otherwise. Alright, I get you care more about your own gas price than other countries but how do you expect one of your other solutions (diplomacy) to work when you make decisions that screw your closest allies over. Why would a country like SA ever make a deal to pump more oil if they know you'll screw them over any time it benefits you. On June 29 2022 17:15 Gorsameth wrote: high prices only lead to lower demand if the demand is optional. Not going to work is not an option, so while people might not take a trip to the part because of fuel costs, most travel is not likely to be effected because there is no alternative. Yes, demand for oil in general is very inelastic in the short term. I think it's worthwile to seperate the long and short run in this case though. Sustained high prices for oil and energy in general will increase investment into alternatives. Sustained higher prices for dirty energy are very unpopular but also the best way to move away from them in the long run | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On June 29 2022 15:46 Sermokala wrote: Those people don't exist. They're just strawmen you see from fascists trying to paint people who believe science is real as eco terrorists. What euros need to do to break up their confusion on the gas issue is to look at the best selling cars in the us and the breakdown on car classes that are selling. Conservatives are reeing particularity hard because most of.them have a mpg under 20 and a lot have it under 15 on their trick or suv they drive on paved roads. They also commute about an hour or more a day. If you told them it wouldn't be as much of an issue if they had a prius or another car with reasonable mph they'd punch you in the face and call you a gay slur. Source me that happened to me. I get quadruple the mpg these guys get and they think I'm the idiot that needs a new car. A prius is an impractical car for a lot of rural people with blue collar jobs that often have to haul shit around. You can get mid-size and crossover SUVs that get 30 mpg these days. If gas is $2-$3/gallon people are still going to be happy driving whatever car they want. If gas is $6/gallon everyone except the most hardened homophobes are going to consider whether their next vehicle should be hybrid/electric. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11978 Posts
On June 29 2022 17:15 Gorsameth wrote: high prices only lead to lower demand if the demand is optional. Not going to work is not an option, so while people might not take a trip to the part because of fuel costs, most travel is not likely to be effected because there is no alternative. My ideal solution is high prices on stuff that damages the climate, and a stipend so that people have more money available. A possible solution would be a carbon tax that gets paid out 100% per capita to all citizens (or people living there, or whatever). This way, high costs still encourage you to reduce your consumption of climate killing stuff, but there is no net negative effect on the budgets of people. People who emit more CO2 than average end up net paying, while people who emit less net gain. Sets incentives without killing the lifelyhood of people. | ||
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FeatherPlanes
45 Posts
On June 29 2022 16:32 Broetchenholer wrote: It has nothing to do with your court system, and everything to do with how powerful and backwards a part of your country is. If 20% of people in an European country would hate abortion as much as evangelicals do, this could happen here as well. The only place it has happened is Ireland AFAIK. Your proportion of intolerant hateful "Christians" is just too high to have a healthy consensus in society. The funny thing is that even Ireland to a degree came to its senses because: 1) Women don't just get random abortions just because they feel like it. 2) Irish women were literally going elsewhere (or just dying) to get an abortion for severe foetal abnormalities where the child would either die in the 1st year or have a severe lack of quality to their life. 3) Women would just die to sepsis because apparently a rotting foetus is totally fine to ignore. 4) There's literally no such thing as a late term abortion, as much as Republicans want to believe children get ripped out of the womb crying and tossed in the garbage as Trump used many, many times in speeches and debates. The biggest issue facing America is that a lot of Christians in America aren't actually completely against abortion. They're more so against other people getting abortions. There's a lot of anecdotes of Christian women coming in to get an abortion and literally going outside to join the pro-life protests right afterwards. The only moral abortion is my abortion, etc. The wealthy will still get abortions because they can just take advantage of abortion tourism services, the people SOL are the poor. The biggest problem I have with people who keep saying Roe v Wade was bad law is that it completely ignores the context where Republican majority states were lining up anti-abortion laws more restrictive and punitive than anything than Islam, a religion often derided by the right for being horrible towards women, suggests. Supreme Court Justices aren't stupid and it would take a stupid person to believe in serendipity in this situation. After all, the Supreme Court kept dropping trial balloons for years and the Republican majority states responded in kind by lining up legislation like Black Friday was going to happen in the near future. On June 29 2022 18:33 BlackJack wrote: A prius is an impractical car for a lot of rural people with blue collar jobs that often have to haul shit around. You can get mid-size and crossover SUVs that get 30 mpg these days. If gas is $2-$3/gallon people are still going to be happy driving whatever car they want. If gas is $6/gallon everyone except the most hardened homophobes are going to consider whether their next vehicle should be hybrid/electric. A lot of American work vehicles for the most part are extremely stupid and impractical. Too high off the ground, surprisingly small storage spaces, front so long that you can't see low objects like bollards and children, obscenely wide for no reason, etc. Unsurprisingly, these vehicles also suck in fuel efficiency to more boring work vehicles. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14208 Posts
On June 29 2022 18:33 BlackJack wrote: A prius is an impractical car for a lot of rural people with blue collar jobs that often have to haul shit around. You can get mid-size and crossover SUVs that get 30 mpg these days. If gas is $2-$3/gallon people are still going to be happy driving whatever car they want. If gas is $6/gallon everyone except the most hardened homophobes are going to consider whether their next vehicle should be hybrid/electric. I have a mini van that hauls shit around better than any truck. It's got a lot more bed space and is covered, I can and have gotten full sheets of sheetrock in my minivan as well as 16 bales of hay. I have a blue collar job and I can tell you these people don't do shit with them that requires an f-150. They use these insane sized trucks to commute to work and little else. Oh and they're not going to change for shit. They'll just yell louder and louder because that's what fox tells them to do. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10950 Posts
On June 29 2022 18:33 BlackJack wrote: A prius is an impractical car for a lot of rural people with blue collar jobs that often have to haul shit around. You can get mid-size and crossover SUVs that get 30 mpg these days. If gas is $2-$3/gallon people are still going to be happy driving whatever car they want. If gas is $6/gallon everyone except the most hardened homophobes are going to consider whether their next vehicle should be hybrid/electric. Somehow nearly all the company and delivery vehicles i see are NOT pickups. It's as if they are built for people wanting to make certain statements and not for practicality. It's also kinda funny that the same people that absolutely and 100% need guns to protect their property from burglars and other evil doers like to keep their stuff in an open car. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11978 Posts
On June 29 2022 20:29 Velr wrote: Somehow nearly all the company and delivery vehicles i see are NOT pickups. It's as if they are built for people wanting to make certain statements and not for practicality. It's also kinda funny that the same people that absolutely and 100% need guns to protect their property from burglars and other evil doers like to keep their stuff in an open car. True. Literally every company that does anything trades-wise has a van here. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27350 Posts
On June 29 2022 19:41 FeatherPlanes wrote: The funny thing is that even Ireland to a degree came to its senses because: 1) Women don't just get random abortions just because they feel like it. 2) Irish women were literally going elsewhere (or just dying) to get an abortion for severe foetal abnormalities where the child would either die in the 1st year or have a severe lack of quality to their life. 3) Women would just die to sepsis because apparently a rotting foetus is totally fine to ignore. 4) There's literally no such thing as a late term abortion, as much as Republicans want to believe children get ripped out of the womb crying and tossed in the garbage as Trump used many, many times in speeches and debates. The biggest issue facing America is that a lot of Christians in America aren't actually completely against abortion. They're more so against other people getting abortions. There's a lot of anecdotes of Christian women coming in to get an abortion and literally going outside to join the pro-life protests right afterwards. The only moral abortion is my abortion, etc. The wealthy will still get abortions because they can just take advantage of abortion tourism services, the people SOL are the poor. The biggest problem I have with people who keep saying Roe v Wade was bad law is that it completely ignores the context where Republican majority states were lining up anti-abortion laws more restrictive and punitive than anything than Islam, a religion often derided by the right for being horrible towards women, suggests. Supreme Court Justices aren't stupid and it would take a stupid person to believe in serendipity in this situation. After all, the Supreme Court kept dropping trial balloons for years and the Republican majority states responded in kind by lining up legislation like Black Friday was going to happen in the near future. A lot of American work vehicles for the most part are extremely stupid and impractical. Too high off the ground, surprisingly small storage spaces, front so long that you can't see low objects like bollards and children, obscenely wide for no reason, etc. Unsurprisingly, these vehicles also suck in fuel efficiency to more boring work vehicles. Indeed, Ireland both North and South somewhat lagged behind on the issue. It was especially silly in my neck of the woods because abortion was de facto legal if you had money for many, many years. Just go to the mainland and get one. There’s still issues actually accessing services now, even though it’s now legal. We were relative holdouts by the Western timeline, on gay rights as well. The difference between here and the States, and indeed basically anywhere else I can think of is now the genie is out of the bottle, he’s not going back in anytime soon. Why that is I’m unsure. Ireland north and south and Prod/Catholic has more than its fair share of devout religious folk and is less cosmopolitan than many comparable places. They’ve not really built up any head of steam or built coalitions to try and revert things of this nature. To some degree even people I’ve spoken to who are really, really religious feel it’s sufficient that they themselves remain devout and don’t personally have/their partner have an abortion, if other people go down that route they’ll have god to answer to and God’s wrath is a hell of a lot scarier than anything we can do to each other on this mortal plane. Over in the States it seems a rather different kettle of fish. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11978 Posts
On June 29 2022 22:13 WombaT wrote: Indeed, Ireland both North and South somewhat lagged behind on the issue. It was especially silly in my neck of the woods because abortion was de facto legal if you had money for many, many years. Just go to the mainland and get one. There’s still issues actually accessing services now, even though it’s now legal. We were relative holdouts by the Western timeline, on gay rights as well. The difference between here and the States, and indeed basically anywhere else I can think of is now the genie is out of the bottle, he’s not going back in anytime soon. Why that is I’m unsure. Ireland north and south and Prod/Catholic has more than its fair share of devout religious folk and is less cosmopolitan than many comparable places. They’ve not really built up any head of steam or built coalitions to try and revert things of this nature. To some degree even people I’ve spoken to who are really, really religious feel it’s sufficient that they themselves remain devout and don’t personally have/their partner have an abortion, if other people go down that route they’ll have god to answer to and God’s wrath is a hell of a lot scarier than anything we can do to each other on this mortal plane. Over in the States it seems a rather different kettle of fish. That might be true. My personal experience with religious people here in Germany is that they are mostly the "I believe X, therefore i do Y" type of religious, and not the american evangelical "I believe X, therefore you must do Y" style of religious. | ||
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