EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3687
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22291 Posts
On June 25 2022 05:47 Falling wrote: Sure Republicans would do the same, and then you do it again, and again, and again until the entire institution is an unworkable joke and maybe then it can get fixed.I don't see how this is a solution for anything other than for four to eight years. If Democrats open the door to doubling the numbers on the Supreme Court, what is to stop the Republicans, once they regain power, from either a) halving the numbers back to the original numbers (most likely) or doubling it again for themselves (the darkest timeline where the Supreme Court eventually equals and then surpasses the Congress in numbers). Doesn't your court stacking only work if Republicans literally never win ever again? I don't see how this is a long term solution. Not doing anything certainly doesn't seem to be working, this majority is going to sit there for multiple decades most likely. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Falling
Canada11504 Posts
On June 25 2022 05:55 StasisField wrote: I don't have an answer for your overall question, but to address point a: it is believed seats cannot be taken away since SC appointments are for life. I guess they could pass a law that says The SC is X number of Justices and that they will not fill any SC seats until there are less than X number of SC Justices alive and serving, but that would be a really slow way of lowering the number of Justices and is prone to being done away with by a future law or deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court themselves. Well, I think as soon Republicans get a whiff of court stacking, they will begin decrying it as illegitimate. So it seems to me, that while court appointments are for life, because they would all be appointed when there was no vacancy to be filled they were never legitimately a part of the Court in the first place. I don't know- seems like the sort of argument that would be run out given that nine has been the number for the last 150 years. Either way, it doesn't really matter. Point is if it can be done that easily, it can be undone just as easily in the next election. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On June 25 2022 06:12 Falling wrote: Well, I think as soon Republicans get a whiff of court stacking, they will begin decrying it as illegitimate. So it seems to me, that while court appointments are for life, because they would all be appointed when there was no vacancy to be filled they were never legitimately a part of the Court in the first place. I don't know- seems like the sort of argument that would be run out given that nine has been the number for the last 150 years. Either way, it doesn't really matter. Point is if it can be done that easily, it can be undone just as easily in the next election. Republicans will call anything illegitimate that goes against their interests, just look at how many still call Biden an illegitimate president. Long term solutions can be considered once something is done to stem the flood of Republicans completely hijacking the judicial system and possibly the electoral system itself. | ||
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KwarK
United States43960 Posts
On June 25 2022 05:47 Falling wrote: I don't see how this is a solution for anything other than for four to eight years. If Democrats open the door to doubling the numbers on the Supreme Court, what is to stop the Republicans, once they regain power, from either a) halving the numbers back to the original numbers (most likely) or doubling it again for themselves (the darkest timeline where the Supreme Court eventually equals and then surpasses the Congress in numbers). Doesn't your court stacking only work if Republicans literally never win ever again? I don't see how this is a long term solution. It's not a long term solution but it's a short term solution. Republicans are going to cheat when they get back in anyway so it's not like not stacking the court will help. The two options here are 1) Republicans cheat when they get power and stack the court. Democrats have to work with a nakedly politicized Supreme Court that works contrary to their interests whenever they have power. 2) Both parties cheat when they get power. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26729 Posts
On June 25 2022 03:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: You could see this result coming a mile away if you looked for it. I called it the moment trump was elected that this would be the way it would turn out over time. The frenzy was whipped and no one paid it any mind. Now they are and it's going to cost a lot of innocent lives. You can have your stances and principles, but now you have to sit there quietly, while those who sounded the alarm, cried wolf, etc try to save this experiment. I for one will enjoy my deluxe album of "Nero Fiddled while Rome Burned." I’m pretty sure many of us did call it, indeed I’ve been pretty consistently amongst the most hawkish that the culture shift Trump heralded/was carried along would be far more damaging and long-lasting than any legislative program or foreign policy action he performed. Even the small stuff that ‘doesn’t matter’ or is small fry, it all builds up and here you see the culmination. My point was directed at Bitf, people did vote, there’s somebody other than Trump currently in office. I was arguing against not voting for the reasons I outlined, if I was American it would be less than useless putting a tick in the blue box in resolving my particular issues, by and large. But hey it could conceivably be the difference between women not having the right to choose, trans people being allowed to exist etc, so I wouldn’t find it appropriate to grandstand. It’s not like this is the result of disaffected people staying at home and letting Trump win a second term, they came out this time. Oft neglected in such conversations but, the GOP at least vaguely do what their constituents want, and by every hook and crook get things done. And hey that has a galvanising effect on the base. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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KwarK
United States43960 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9041 Posts
On June 25 2022 06:30 WombaT wrote: I’m pretty sure many of us did call it, indeed I’ve been pretty consistently amongst the most hawkish that the culture shift Trump heralded/was carried along would be far more damaging and long-lasting than any legislative program or foreign policy action he performed. Even the small stuff that ‘doesn’t matter’ or is small fry, it all builds up and here you see the culmination. My point was directed at Bitf, people did vote, there’s somebody other than Trump currently in office. I was arguing against not voting for the reasons I outlined, if I was American it would be less than useless putting a tick in the blue box in resolving my particular issues, by and large. But hey it could conceivably be the difference between women not having the right to choose, trans people being allowed to exist etc, so I wouldn’t find it appropriate to grandstand. It’s not like this is the result of disaffected people staying at home and letting Trump win a second term, they came out this time. Oft neglected in such conversations but, the GOP at least vaguely do what their constituents want, and by every hook and crook get things done. And hey that has a galvanising effect on the base. This time. But when it was Clinton, everyone stayed home and that's how we got to this point. You cannot take a day off in this political climate. This isn't every 4 years. This is every time there is an election. Your thinking that it doesn't matter if you tick blue or not is how we got into this mess. Not you personally, but those who have the same line of thinking. This shit added up because people were thinking "it doesn't matter, the system is rigged, etc etc etc" and now we see the very real consequence that it does matter. But it is what it is. Those who allowed this to happen can only sit and watch from the sidelines as they have their weird victory lap that eventually, the US will eat itself alive. Congrats you prophets. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Democrats don’t give any real actual shit about this, they’re still part of the class of people that just Wins under the US system. Blame the people who seem unable to lose instead of the people who are repeatedly bludgeoned to death by the winners. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23904 Posts
On June 25 2022 07:08 Zambrah wrote: The people doing their victory laps are the Democrats looking forward to fundraising off of this and Republicans seeing their regressive awfulness come to life. Democrats don’t give any real actual shit about this, they’re still part of the class of people that just Wins under the US system. Blame the people who seem unable to lose instead of the people who are repeatedly bludgeoned to death by the winners. Just waiting for someone to blame Susan Sarandon to fill out my SocDem bingo card. It's laughably ridiculous people are still pushing the narrative it was people that recognized the system is and always has been rigged against them (and/or others) to blame rather than the Democratic party leader employing a strategy to intentionally elevate Trump. Peak victim blaming and bootlicking. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On June 25 2022 07:13 JimmiC wrote: What actual steps do you think should be taken? What will you do? I’m going to DC tonight to protest. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26729 Posts
On June 25 2022 06:45 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: This time. But when it was Clinton, everyone stayed home and that's how we got to this point. You cannot take a day off in this political climate. This isn't every 4 years. This is every time there is an election. Your thinking that it doesn't matter if you tick blue or not is how we got into this mess. Not you personally, but those who have the same line of thinking. This shit added up because people were thinking "it doesn't matter, the system is rigged, etc etc etc" and now we see the very real consequence that it does matter. But it is what it is. Those who allowed this to happen can only sit and watch from the sidelines as they have their weird victory lap that eventually, the US will eat itself alive. Congrats you prophets. To a degree, the blame can’t all be foisted on the shoulders of those who don’t feel enthused enough to vote. And usually the more left leaning folk. I think it’s a bit silly to not vote given how demonstrably awful the GOP are, but I mean beyond that? The lessons taken from Trump’s victory are so ridiculously skewed, it’s the voters fault for not turning out. What there should have been was a real collective soul search on account of the Democratic Party to try and come up with substantive policies and galvanise people who felt disenfranchised. Instead well, here we are. Trump’s ascent should have acted as a dual wake-up call to both the dangers of letting such a character into power, but also for the Democratic Party to get its shit together. The former seems to have held true at least temporarily, the latter? A factor that ended up being pertinent was the polling and the perception that it was a done deal. I know plenty who didn’t vote in the Brexit referendum because they thought we’d collectively vote to remain in. I’d assume there are many felt the same in 2016 over in the States, but that’s a slightly different category. | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
But that wont change anything , the verdict is here to stay. It will take decades to change it,just like it took decades to overturn it. Which leaves the battle at the state level but options for succes are limited. Red states wont change into blue states over this which leaves only the swing states. But this is not the only important matter when it comes to voting. There is many more issues like the economy/inflation,the right to bear arms , state specific issues and the popularity of the president. And while 75%-80% of the population was more or less supporting the status quo before this verdict,i do think that in the end abortion is not the most important issue when it comes to voting for most people. It does not directly effect most voters personally. Its a lost case and the USA will most likely slowly continue in the conservative christian direction. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11813 Posts
Yes, not voting against them is bad. But voting for them is infinitely worse. (And yes, the US system is broken beyond relief) | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On June 25 2022 03:43 plasmidghost wrote: You have got to be fucking kidding me with this. Like, this is pure farce and mockery to the entire country at this point Meanwhile AOC is out in front of the supreme court amidst the crowd shouting that they're illegitimate. God i love her. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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