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On June 25 2022 03:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2022 03:36 WombaT wrote:On June 25 2022 03:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 25 2022 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
I thought maybe Democrats had some sort of plan, but it really is just "Maybe you'll get your bodily autonomy back in a decade or so?" with a side of "protest more politely" and "Vote!" Did you have some sort of plan when you deployed as much energy as you could to convince people not to vote for Clinton and kept parroting Bernie or Burst rethoric? Vote! was the fucking solution. Now it’s too late. People did vote though, Bernie or bust seems a reasonable accurate assessment of things with hindsight, for many Americans anyway. If it were not for the active danger to the trans community, the no-doubt incoming pushback on gay civil rights, the existing pushback on woman’s autonomy, I wouldn’t see a huge amount of reason to vote for the Democratic Party. You could see this result coming a mile away if you looked for it. I called it the moment trump was elected that this would be the way it would turn out over time. The frenzy was whipped and no one paid it any mind. Now they are and it's going to cost a lot of innocent lives. You can have your stances and principles, but now you have to sit there quietly, while those who sounded the alarm, cried wolf, etc try to save this experiment. I for one will enjoy my deluxe album of "Nero Fiddled while Rome Burned."
The problem is that even the people who saw this coming couldn't really do anything.
You have one party of crazy fascists, and ~45% of the voters are totally on board with that.
And you have a party of conservatives. Even if you vote for the conservatives, stuff doesn't really get better, it stays the same.
So you have to vote for them, if you don't want the crazy fascists in power, but stuff stays the same forever. There is no path to stuff getting better.
The core problem is that 45% of the voters vote for the crazy fascists. This means that everyone else has to ally up to prevent them from getting into power, which is hard when it still means that all of your problems don't get adressed.
In a sane system, in this case a new progressive party forms, and gets into a coalition with the old conservatives. Depending on how many people vote for the progressives, stuff slowly or quickly gets better.
In the US system, you are just stuck. Vote democrat no matter what, because the only other alternative are crazy fascists. And even if you always vote democrat, stuff still doesn't get better, because democrats are not the party of "stuff gets better", they are the party of "stuff stays the same".
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On June 25 2022 03:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2022 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
I thought maybe Democrats had some sort of plan, but it really is just "Maybe you'll get your bodily autonomy back in a decade or so?" with a side of "protest more politely" and "Vote!" + Show Spoiler +Did you have some sort of plan when you deployed as much energy as you could to convince people not to vote for Clinton and kept parroting Bernie or Burst rethoric?
Vote! was the fucking solution. Now it’s too late.
It already was for countless people, but the more people that recognize this the better.
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Bleak. After all of Congress got together to drastically increase Supreme Court justice security, it's led to this where the people in power are using violence and threats of it to subjugate the entire country. If you think this is something new, it's not, it's just finally at the point where it's targeting everyone. America is built on centuries of cruelty and death. Just ask any Black or Indigenous person and they can attest to that.
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United States43219 Posts
On June 25 2022 03:45 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2022 03:35 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2022 02:57 pmh wrote:On June 25 2022 02:21 KwarK wrote:
Biden has the power to increase the supreme court if he can whip the legislative. He never even tried. Biden cant do anything. Stacking the court would lead to a constitutional crisis. Where in the constitution does it define the size of the court? Doesnt really matter. It sort of is the law of the land (like roe vs wade was also asumed to be i guess). If Biden stacks the court there would be an outrage that would pale the storming of the capitol. I dont see how it is realistically possible without the usa collapsing into chaos. There is a real opportunity now i feel for what GH would like to see. Not so much a revolution but at least something different from traditional politics. It has come to the point where the lesser of two evils is no longer good enough for a rather substantial part of the population. At least that is my impression (which could very well be wrong). Unions are gaining strenght in the USA right now and that process will most likely continue. Maybe that movement could grow into something substantial. Besides unions i dont see anything else that could possibly gain enough momentum. This without saying i would personally favor this.
Trump stacked the courts in violation of political norms and no one did shit about it. Biden stacks them back in response and no one will do shit.
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On June 25 2022 03:48 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2022 03:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On June 25 2022 03:36 WombaT wrote:On June 25 2022 03:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 25 2022 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
I thought maybe Democrats had some sort of plan, but it really is just "Maybe you'll get your bodily autonomy back in a decade or so?" with a side of "protest more politely" and "Vote!" Did you have some sort of plan when you deployed as much energy as you could to convince people not to vote for Clinton and kept parroting Bernie or Burst rethoric? Vote! was the fucking solution. Now it’s too late. People did vote though, Bernie or bust seems a reasonable accurate assessment of things with hindsight, for many Americans anyway. If it were not for the active danger to the trans community, the no-doubt incoming pushback on gay civil rights, the existing pushback on woman’s autonomy, I wouldn’t see a huge amount of reason to vote for the Democratic Party. You could see this result coming a mile away if you looked for it. I called it the moment trump was elected that this would be the way it would turn out over time. The frenzy was whipped and no one paid it any mind. Now they are and it's going to cost a lot of innocent lives. You can have your stances and principles, but now you have to sit there quietly, while those who sounded the alarm, cried wolf, etc try to save this experiment. I for one will enjoy my deluxe album of "Nero Fiddled while Rome Burned." + Show Spoiler +
The problem is that even the people who saw this coming couldn't really do anything.
You have one party of crazy fascists, and ~45% of the voters are totally on board with that.
And you have a party of conservatives. Even if you vote for the conservatives, stuff doesn't really get better, it stays the same.
So you have to vote for them, if you don't want the crazy fascists in power, but stuff stays the same forever. There is no path to stuff getting better.
The core problem is that 45% of the voters vote for the crazy fascists. This means that everyone else has to ally up to prevent them from getting into power, which is hard when it still means that all of your problems don't get adressed.
In a sane system, in this case a new progressive party forms, and gets into a coalition with the old conservatives. Depending on how many people vote for the progressives, stuff slowly or quickly gets better.
In the US system, you are just stuck. Vote democrat no matter what, because the only other alternative are crazy fascists. And even if you always vote democrat, stuff still doesn't get better, because
democrats are not the party of "stuff gets better", they are the party of "stuff stays the same".
That's probably too gracious to even their own messaging/current events, they are the party of "things getting worse slower than if Republicans had complete control" optimistically speaking.
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On June 25 2022 03:43 plasmidghost wrote:
You have got to be fucking kidding me with this. Like, this is pure farce and mockery to the entire country at this point
This might be the most out of touch shit I have ever seen. Why the fuck aren't they mad? Why are they not each yelling into whatever microphone they can find about how upset they are and how they won't stand for this? How the fuck is this their response?
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It’s going to be a huge mess.
No one knows how this is going to go. Probably bad.
Indeed, God Save America, because surely no one else can.
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It's rich that Pelosi is saying this when she spent the last three months pulling out all the stops to get anti-abortion Dem candidate Henry Cuellar a victory in a US House primary here over an actual pro-choice candidate
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On June 25 2022 03:52 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2022 03:45 pmh wrote:On June 25 2022 03:35 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2022 02:57 pmh wrote:On June 25 2022 02:21 KwarK wrote:
Biden has the power to increase the supreme court if he can whip the legislative. He never even tried. Biden cant do anything. Stacking the court would lead to a constitutional crisis. Where in the constitution does it define the size of the court? Doesnt really matter. It sort of is the law of the land (like roe vs wade was also asumed to be i guess). If Biden stacks the court there would be an outrage that would pale the storming of the capitol. I dont see how it is realistically possible without the usa collapsing into chaos. There is a real opportunity now i feel for what GH would like to see. Not so much a revolution but at least something different from traditional politics. It has come to the point where the lesser of two evils is no longer good enough for a rather substantial part of the population. At least that is my impression (which could very well be wrong). Unions are gaining strenght in the USA right now and that process will most likely continue. Maybe that movement could grow into something substantial. Besides unions i dont see anything else that could possibly gain enough momentum. This without saying i would personally favor this. Trump stacked the courts in violation of political norms and no one did shit about it. Biden stacks them back in response and no one will do shit.
If Biden was widely popular then maybe. But he isnt.
(i am watching this from the EU so you have to take my opinion on this with a grain of salt. My insight in us society is not that big).
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Like Riddick said, "Leave god out of this. He wants no part in what happens next."
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On June 25 2022 04:16 plasmidghost wrote:It's rich that Pelosi is saying this when she spent the last three months pulling out all the stops to get anti-abortion Dem candidate Henry Cuellar a victory in a US House primary here over an actual pro-choice candidate https://twitter.com/heatherscope/status/1540347598854406145
She's basically just using it as another opportunity to say "but Republicans are worse", when as you say, she literally backed Cuellar, who's anti-abortion, in a primary which he won by hundreds(!) of votes. She chose the winner, and the choice was clear. So it's not really about being better than Republicans. It's about doing just enough to be able to point to them every other November and emphasize how they're worse.
She's exactly the kind of Democrat that needs to get the fuck out of the way and let people who give a shit and want to make a difference actually be put in a position to do so. Ridiculous.
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On June 25 2022 04:26 NewSunshine wrote:She's basically just using it as another opportunity to say "but Republicans are worse", when as you say, she literally backed Cuellar, who's anti-abortion, in a primary which he won by hundreds(!) of votes. She chose the winner, and the choice was clear. So it's not really about being better than Republicans. It's about doing just enough to be able to point to them every other November and emphasize how they're worse. She's exactly the kind of Democrat that needs to get the fuck out of the way and let people who give a shit and want to make a difference actually be put in a position to do so. Ridiculous.
Exactly. Democrat leadership has failed the nation on so many levels. They actively hamstringed the party's ability to prevent this shit from happening. These people need to get the fuck out the way and let people who want real change to take over. We need more John Fettermans.
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On June 25 2022 03:36 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2022 03:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 25 2022 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
I thought maybe Democrats had some sort of plan, but it really is just "Maybe you'll get your bodily autonomy back in a decade or so?" with a side of "protest more politely" and "Vote!" Did you have some sort of plan when you deployed as much energy as you could to convince people not to vote for Clinton and kept parroting Bernie or Burst rethoric? Vote! was the fucking solution. Now it’s too late. People did vote though, Bernie or bust seems a reasonable accurate assessment of things with hindsight, for many Americans anyway. If it were not for the active danger to the trans community, the no-doubt incoming pushback on gay civil rights, the existing pushback on woman’s autonomy, I wouldn’t see a huge amount of reason to vote for the Democratic Party.
It always was for an active danger to those and many more, that’s the point.
The democratic party is not great and Clinton was wayyy too right wing for me. The country would be in an incomensurably better state if she had won though. What every one who advertised not chosing between her and Trump did was to render any improvement impossible in America for decades.
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If they do a nationwide abortion ban im going to start marching to get Minnesota into Canada.
That's the time to just bail on the burning disaster.
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Man, the national political temperature must really be coming down. Even Minnesota's on fire!
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Canada11369 Posts
On June 25 2022 03:52 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2022 03:45 pmh wrote:On June 25 2022 03:35 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2022 02:57 pmh wrote:On June 25 2022 02:21 KwarK wrote:
Biden has the power to increase the supreme court if he can whip the legislative. He never even tried. Biden cant do anything. Stacking the court would lead to a constitutional crisis. Where in the constitution does it define the size of the court? Doesnt really matter. It sort of is the law of the land (like roe vs wade was also asumed to be i guess). If Biden stacks the court there would be an outrage that would pale the storming of the capitol. I dont see how it is realistically possible without the usa collapsing into chaos. There is a real opportunity now i feel for what GH would like to see. Not so much a revolution but at least something different from traditional politics. It has come to the point where the lesser of two evils is no longer good enough for a rather substantial part of the population. At least that is my impression (which could very well be wrong). Unions are gaining strenght in the USA right now and that process will most likely continue. Maybe that movement could grow into something substantial. Besides unions i dont see anything else that could possibly gain enough momentum. This without saying i would personally favor this. Trump stacked the courts in violation of political norms and no one did shit about it. Biden stacks them back in response and no one will do shit.
I don't see how this is a solution for anything other than for four to eight years. If Democrats open the door to doubling the numbers on the Supreme Court, what is to stop the Republicans, once they regain power, from either a) halving the numbers back to the original numbers (most likely) or doubling it again for themselves (the darkest timeline where the Supreme Court eventually equals and then surpasses the Congress in numbers). Doesn't your court stacking only work if Republicans literally never win ever again? I don't see how this is a long term solution.
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Short term solution is still better than letting republicans run wild.
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On June 25 2022 05:47 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2022 03:52 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2022 03:45 pmh wrote:On June 25 2022 03:35 KwarK wrote:On June 25 2022 02:57 pmh wrote:On June 25 2022 02:21 KwarK wrote:
Biden has the power to increase the supreme court if he can whip the legislative. He never even tried. Biden cant do anything. Stacking the court would lead to a constitutional crisis. Where in the constitution does it define the size of the court? Doesnt really matter. It sort of is the law of the land (like roe vs wade was also asumed to be i guess). If Biden stacks the court there would be an outrage that would pale the storming of the capitol. I dont see how it is realistically possible without the usa collapsing into chaos. There is a real opportunity now i feel for what GH would like to see. Not so much a revolution but at least something different from traditional politics. It has come to the point where the lesser of two evils is no longer good enough for a rather substantial part of the population. At least that is my impression (which could very well be wrong). Unions are gaining strenght in the USA right now and that process will most likely continue. Maybe that movement could grow into something substantial. Besides unions i dont see anything else that could possibly gain enough momentum. This without saying i would personally favor this. Trump stacked the courts in violation of political norms and no one did shit about it. Biden stacks them back in response and no one will do shit. I don't see how this is a solution for anything other than for four to eight years. If Democrats open the door to doubling the numbers on the Supreme Court, what is to stop the Republicans, once they regain power, from either a) halving the numbers back to the original numbers (most likely) or doubling it again for themselves (the darkest timeline where the Supreme Court eventually equals and then surpasses the Congress in numbers). Doesn't your court stacking only work if Republicans literally never win ever again? I don't see how this is a long term solution.
I don't have an answer for your overall question, but to address point a: it is believed seats cannot be taken away since SC appointments are for life. I guess they could pass a law that says The SC is X number of Justices and that they will not fill any SC seats until there are less than X number of SC Justices alive and serving, but that would be a really slow way of lowering the number of Justices and is prone to being done away with by a future law or deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court themselves.
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EPT
