EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3364
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Deleted User 173346
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farvacola
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Gorsameth
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On November 09 2021 08:03 plasmidghost wrote: They 100% will. while telling their voters the Democrats are evil for not giving their state money in the bill.A friend of mine brought this to my attention. I have a feeling that conservative states could very well refuse the funds just because of this provision. Same way states refused to money to expand Medicaid so they could blame Obamacare. | ||
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Iamveryweird
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confusedzerg
Russian Federation102 Posts
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Iambored
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Iambored
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Iamannoying
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Mohdoo
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JimmiC
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26523 Posts
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confusedzerg
Russian Federation102 Posts
On November 09 2021 21:05 WombaT wrote: Darn, I was expected some interesting heated debate when I saw there were 13 new replies my friend who is member here on TL is on a discord server and showing me many screenshots of people mad at kwark and some other TL guy and apparently they decided to spam here because that is mature | ||
KwarK
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 08 2021 07:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's a good question. Given that CRT, broadly speaking, works to address racism and disparate racial outcomes, I could see the acknowledgement that GT programs might be disproportionately imbalanced as potentially falling under the purview of CRT, but at the same time I think the solution (to simply remove the program altogether, rather than work to fix the issues and make the system more equitable) is extremely lazy and doesn't address the underlying problem the way most advocates of CRT would support. I'm particularly interested in learning why the solution would be to remove the program, rather than to fix the program. It's obviously easier to just cut it, but if the GT program is capable of benefitting students, I think it's probably worthwhile to make a GT 2.0 or whatever. I think I can help you diagnose the issue. The importance of education and public schools is so ingrained in the "normal" discourse that I think almost anyone from the normal parts of any political party (Trumpies, Bushies, Bidenies, Clintonites, Bernies, Paulites, etc) is going to struggle with this discourse. I am an education skeptic so I think I understand the critique, even if I probably have a different diagnosis. Basically, the normal discourse (basically all that's allowed on TV) says schools are important and help drive outcomes, particularly achievement gaps. If only we could "fix" the schools things would be much better. IMO, that is a lie. Schools don't drive gaps, they reveal pre-existing gaps. I think the woke are similar on this point, see, also the attack on objective tests like the SAT, ACT, etc. The only way to avoid gaps in endgame outcomes (achieve equity in woke terms) you have to mask any evidence of these pre-existing gaps, and eliminating tracking aids in the project of masking over the real differences between students. I'm not on board with the equity project but I think I understand what the purpose is in attacking these more meritocratic types of programs. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45449 Posts
On November 10 2021 08:53 cLutZ wrote: I think I can help you diagnose the issue. The importance of education and public schools is so ingrained in the "normal" discourse that I think almost anyone from the normal parts of any political party (Trumpies, Bushies, Bidenies, Clintonites, Bernies, Paulites, etc) is going to struggle with this discourse. I am an education skeptic so I think I understand the critique, even if I probably have a different diagnosis. Basically, the normal discourse (basically all that's allowed on TV) says schools are important and help drive outcomes, particularly achievement gaps. If only we could "fix" the schools things would be much better. IMO, that is a lie. Schools don't drive gaps, they reveal pre-existing gaps. I think the woke are similar on this point, see, also the attack on objective tests like the SAT, ACT, etc. The only way to avoid gaps in endgame outcomes (achieve equity in woke terms) you have to mask any evidence of these pre-existing gaps, and eliminating tracking aids in the project of masking over the real differences between students. I'm not on board with the equity project but I think I understand what the purpose is in attacking these more meritocratic types of programs. That's an interesting take; thanks for sharing your perspective  I think your second paragraph clarifies your position a bit, but would you mind elaborating on what exactly you mean when you say you're an "education skeptic", and are you pretty much using "education" and "school/schooling" interchangeably and synonymously here, or do you believe there's a difference? And there are definitely plenty of issues with standardized tests, ranging from potential biases/inequities to the fact that some questions don't even do a good job of assessing what they're supposed to assess (content skills, synthesis, problem solving ability, etc.). | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 10 2021 09:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's an interesting take; thanks for sharing your perspective I think your second paragraph clarifies your position a bit, but would you mind elaborating on what exactly you mean when you say you're an "education skeptic", and are you pretty much using "education" and "school/schooling" interchangeably and synonymously here, or do you believe there's a difference? Sure, I am definitely using them as a stand in for formalized education. Pre-K, K-12, University, Graduate School. I think the amount of education happening is quite low. This is evidenced by loss of learning being incredibly high, as well as the very strong sheepskin effects surrounding diplomas. Bryan Caplan's work on that is helpful in understanding on a deeper level if you want. My personal take is the immediate goal should be to try and minimize costs as much as possible, and stop grafting left/right wing social programs onto schools simply because they are there. On November 10 2021 09:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: And there are definitely plenty of issues with standardized tests, ranging from potential biases/inequities to the fact that some questions don't even do a good job of assessing what they're supposed to assess (content skills, synthesis, problem solving ability, etc.). I mostly disagree with this. Or, to the extent I agree, I would say, "sure but they are orders of magnitude better and fairer than anything else people are using." | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45449 Posts
On November 10 2021 09:31 cLutZ wrote: Sure, I am definitely using them as a stand in for formalized education. Pre-K, K-12, University, Graduate School. I think the amount of education happening is quite low. This is evidenced by loss of learning being incredibly high, as well as the very strong sheepskin effects surrounding diplomas. Bryan Caplan's work on that is helpful in understanding on a deeper level if you want. My personal take is the immediate goal should be to try and minimize costs as much as possible, and stop grafting left/right wing social programs onto schools simply because they are there. When you say "minimize costs", are you referring to the amount of money being invested into public schools? While resource allocation (making sure the money is being used as effectively as possible) is a very serious issue for many schools, budget cuts to schools probably won't address loss of learning and other potential issues within our education system, right? Maybe this is something you don't really mind, if you think that education and public schools are overestimated in terms of importance? Do you think something should be replacing our public school system, rather than working to improve it? I mostly disagree with this. Or, to the extent I agree, I would say, "sure but they are orders of magnitude better and fairer than anything else people are using." Better and fairer than what alternatives? And I suppose it also depends on what you're using them for. | ||
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