US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3339

On October 17 2021 08:54 brian wrote:
Just saw an ad for McAuliffe, running for governor of virginia.


the ad was literally his opposition accepting Trumps endorsement and highlighting his anti vaxx, anti abortion platform. i thought it was a GOP ad.

bold move. excited to see how that plays out.

On October 17 2021 09:26 Mohdoo wrote:

wait what, can you elaborate? you're saying the democrat is anti-vax?

On October 17 2021 09:35 PtossParty wrote:


His opposition, aka a clip of his GOP opponent Youngkin.

On October 17 2021 10:36 Introvert wrote:
Are we doing that thing, vile thing btw, where we label people like Youngkin and DeSantis as anti-vaxxers who want people to die because they oppose vaccine mandates? This is just another one of those things certain people, very cynically, started to use in everyday conversation and it's absurd and dishonest.

On October 17 2021 10:51 Mohdoo wrote:

The only time someone opposes a mandate but not the vax itself is if they have the emotional development of a mousepad. “Don’t tell me what to do, even if it’s the right thing”, isn’t a sensitivity we should accommodate. It should be a point of shame for the person expressing it.

On October 17 2021 10:58 Introvert wrote:


we can debate the pros and cons of mandates and (contra you) I really do think it's possible to hold good faith, intellectually defensible, and intellectually consistent views on both sides of this. I would think the heavy emphasis on bodily autonomy the left normally prides itself on would at least cause a respect for, if not acceptance of, opposing arguments on this matter.

On October 17 2021 11:37 Mohdoo wrote:

I don’t think there is an intellectually robust argument against mandates that people agree is a good course of action without the mandate. I see it as an emotional failing when someone gets pissy about being told what to do. Someone ought to have more of a hearty self image to be able to endure that. If you commanded me to eat a gorgeous medium rare steak with a side of asparagus and mashed potatoes, I wouldn’t cross my arms and say “we’ll screw you buddy”, I’d pick up a fork and knife and get moving.

Comparing abortion and vax mandates is low resolution, Twitter-level thinking. We can do better than that. The two are not the same. If they appear the same, the microscope you are using to examine them is insufficiently powerful. You can do better than that.

On October 17 2021 11:51 Introvert wrote:


I am having trouble understanding the italicized sentence. Not to have a conversation that belongs in the COVID thread, but I don't see the costs associated with the mandate as worth it when the vaccines are effective. I understand I am talking with someone who takes a very...straightforward view on most topics, but I think this might be a time to slow down and reconsider, espeically if the vaccines lose effectiveness with time, as appears to be the case. Even as a logistical and political matter no government is going to have the support or the means to mandate boosters from now until the end of time.

What I mainly want to establish is an agreement that the term (and the logic behind) anti-vaccine standing and rhetoric and an anti-vaccine mandate stance are not really comparable, as I don't think they are.

As for the last paragraph, I didn't even have abortion in mind actually. Though that's my bad, as abortion is the most likely topic of conversation for that phrase to appear.

Even as a logistical and political matter no government is going to have the support or the means to mandate boosters from now until the end of time.

On October 17 2021 12:11 Mohdoo wrote:


So from my perspective: The statistics around vaccination, and the resultant "pros" and "cons" table indicate someone should almost always get vaccinated. I don't think the religious exemption is legitimate but I do think medical should of course be considered and it should basically just be whatever is recommended by doctors.

In your eyes, what is the cons list? What do we lose?

On October 17 2021 12:20 Salazarz wrote:


How exactly do you envision things panning out without COVID vaccination and booster mandates? Let the 'muh bodily autonomy' crowd continue to get infected and infect others until we finally get an Omega variant that turns people into literal zombies or something else horrifying enough for folks to finally get the fuck on board?

This is not a random scary flu strain; it's not going to go away once the season is over, and it's already established that lasting immunity -- whether from vaccination or from infection -- is not likely to ever be achieved.

God knows I myself am not looking forward to getting jabbed every 6 months or whatever, as I had a pretty miserable time after my second shot -- but it's not as if we have any reasonable alternatives.

On October 17 2021 12:43 Introvert wrote:
In fact your point about infecting others is another issue. If, as Biden said a few months ago, the unvaccinated are a danger the vaccinated (a stupid thing to say IMO) then the rationale for compulsory vaccination takes a huge blow. If they are good enough to keep almost everyone safe from severe illness and death then there is limited reason to mandate it for anyone who doesn't want it. And if that's true for only 65% of people, well then it also undercuts the logic of mandates. Get it yourself and get on with it. It's a similar thing with infinitely recurring mask mandates and partial lockdowns. The idea that people, especially Americans, are going to go for this now every six months at risk of their job seems hard to believe. 80% of American adults have at least one shot, are we really going to throw out an entire 1/5th?

But I didn't really want to get into the weeds on this, but perhaps I presumed a little much. I wanted to clarify, anti-mandate is not anti-vax, and think that's obvious and self-evident with the all people who get vaccinated and vaccinate their kids who nevertheless don't want to force it on everyone else.

On October 17 2021 13:07 Starlightsun wrote:


As Salazarz pointed out, the unvaccinated increase the likelihood of variant strains, thus they are a danger to everyone. They also clog up ICUs for weeks, which means anyone else who needs intensive care is being endangered. There is also a huge loss of nurses due to burnout - and the list goes on. So your starting premise that the actions of the unvaccinated affect only themselves is flawed.



The distinction is immaterial; the effects on society are the same.