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On August 26 2021 01:40 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2021 16:53 [GS]PLACiD wrote:On August 25 2021 15:41 Mohdoo wrote:On August 25 2021 15:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
Part of the problem with recommending boosters in the US when much of the world lacks 1st doses is that it is problematic from an ethical and long term/global epidemiological perspective.
This would be true if we weren't throwing away thousands every week. The doses aren't getting shipped to poor countries when we don't use them. They expire. There is no infrastructure to transport them. It is either the trash can or arms. There is no option to ship them. In a sense you're correct, however, it's not like the poor countries aren't getting them. Part of my job so I can definitely say parts of Africa and the middle east etc are definitely getting them. You're correct in the sense that the ones that aren't being used are just going in the bin, instead of getting them into distribution on top of what countries are ordering which is a shame but I guess that's just part of how society works, can't use em? Bin. Got stuff you don't WANNA use? Bin. While there's definitely demand for more in other places. Poor countries are getting vaccines, yes, but none of the vaccines poor countries get comes from US pharmacies. Once they are shipped once, that's it, GG, they aren't going somewhere else. We don't even have sufficient vaccine tracking infrastructure in the US. First of all, it would be incredibly expensive to do this kinda min/maxing with nearly expired vaccines. Second, we have no information infrastructure for it. The whole thing is impossible with the incompetent CDC. The CDC is failing to such an extreme degree that I am thinking of this in a purely independent sense. I will care for me and my family and basically ignore every single other consideration because I feel like I've been entirely hung out to dry.
To be clear, I wasn't talking about reallocating vaccines already distributed to providers.
The Biden administration's covid response feels like Bush saying "Mission Accomplished". They decided ahead of time that vaccines being distributed would be the light at the end of the tunnel. Once that turned out not to be true, they were like "Oh well! lol!"
I agree on this part. Been driving me up the wall after all the "follow the science" rhetoric from Democrats.
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On August 21 2021 16:45 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2021 16:18 Mohdoo wrote:
I agree that taking in refugees is the minimum. In an ideal world, the international community has predetermined locations where people can flee the country. Even without the whole occupation shtick, the international community should help people leave ALL countries they want to leave. Anyone being forced to stay within a country is an abomination and a shame on the world.
I think Afghanistan as a territory simply needs to be left to its own to find its own way. But anyone who wants to leave should have a home…somewhere else. I don’t have a clue who does that or how, but I think the responsibility falls on humanity as a whole. Anything less would be deprived indifference.
Edit: and just to clarify, I don’t believe people have the right to choose to live in an existing nation. A society must welcome someone in order for them to ethically live there. But everyone should be allowed to leave where they live. I know that’s a weird inconsistency, and I don’t have a way to work that out, but that’s what I believe. Taking in refugees that were fleeing ISIS triggered the rise of the far right in Europe. So maybe in an ideal world there are no refugees? Obviously I agree, we should do the humanitarian thing, but it has consequences.
USA ppl say this always because they dont take the blame of the consequenses. Afgan refugees going to USA, bahahahha...
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On August 26 2021 04:30 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2021 01:40 Mohdoo wrote:On August 25 2021 16:53 [GS]PLACiD wrote:On August 25 2021 15:41 Mohdoo wrote:On August 25 2021 15:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
Part of the problem with recommending boosters in the US when much of the world lacks 1st doses is that it is problematic from an ethical and long term/global epidemiological perspective.
This would be true if we weren't throwing away thousands every week. The doses aren't getting shipped to poor countries when we don't use them. They expire. There is no infrastructure to transport them. It is either the trash can or arms. There is no option to ship them. In a sense you're correct, however, it's not like the poor countries aren't getting them. Part of my job so I can definitely say parts of Africa and the middle east etc are definitely getting them. You're correct in the sense that the ones that aren't being used are just going in the bin, instead of getting them into distribution on top of what countries are ordering which is a shame but I guess that's just part of how society works, can't use em? Bin. Got stuff you don't WANNA use? Bin. While there's definitely demand for more in other places. Poor countries are getting vaccines, yes, but none of the vaccines poor countries get comes from US pharmacies. Once they are shipped once, that's it, GG, they aren't going somewhere else. We don't even have sufficient vaccine tracking infrastructure in the US. First of all, it would be incredibly expensive to do this kinda min/maxing with nearly expired vaccines. Second, we have no information infrastructure for it. The whole thing is impossible with the incompetent CDC. The CDC is failing to such an extreme degree that I am thinking of this in a purely independent sense. I will care for me and my family and basically ignore every single other consideration because I feel like I've been entirely hung out to dry. To be clear, I wasn't talking about reallocating vaccines already distributed to providers. Show nested quote +The Biden administration's covid response feels like Bush saying "Mission Accomplished". They decided ahead of time that vaccines being distributed would be the light at the end of the tunnel. Once that turned out not to be true, they were like "Oh well! lol!" I agree on this part. Been driving me up the wall after all the "follow the science" rhetoric from Democrats.
Democrats still have moral high ground over republicans when it comes to science, but I do not view the democratic party as sufficiently science-beholden.
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Yeah I'd say this is now a certified disaster. This is purely Biden's failure. We pulled out military before civilians. That's dumb.
If people don't mind focusing on this question, I would appreciate it, since I am legitimately baffled: Why would we ever decide to pull our military out before our civilians? I understand the basic idea that Kabul was supposed to have like 9 months of life in it. Doesn't matter to me. We should never rely on another country's military in this situation. The whole point is that Afghanistan lacks the ability to self-determine. We should have never trusted them. Awful situation. I place every death on Biden's hands. This is his fuck up 100%.
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Fuck all politicians. Take them and kick them out of a C-17 over kabul. If you don't like them give them chutes.
Everyone told the politicians that afghans and their families, that helped NATO troops and civil organizations, need to GTFO.
They made made sure they had to jump through all possible hoops to get the chance for a visa...and then it took them until last week to start working on that.
Germany made rules so that if you worked for the Bundesewehr in 2017, you're out. If you worked for them in 2019, your in, if you had a proof that Taliban wanting to kill you. If you were not an employee, but a contractor, you are shit out of luck.
450 people were in save houses last sunday in Kabul waiting to hear if their visas got approved, because for a german visa, you had to apply from fucking Kabul. Not Tashkent, not Islamabad,..Kabul. And you had to stay there to wait for a flight.
And then last week happend. and Keeps happening. And everyone is very very sorry about it. Fuck off.
Germany even sourced special visas out to the UN organization IOM. They wanted to open two offices in Afghanistan...THIS YEAR...but then the Taliban took over..and well the Offices never openend... and all they did was complaining about afghans that despite all already made it to germany, by going on a plane themselves and asking "WHAT NOW?"
"That's not our process, WE need to book your flights!"
Sod off.
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This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi.
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On August 27 2021 04:24 Mohdoo wrote:
This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi. How can the military have left if soldier died in Afghanistan today?
'Some' of the military has left, because it takes time to relocate an army. Lots of material needs to be moved that you don't want to leave behind for the Taliban or ISIS. As material leaves the country parts of the military goes with them because they can't operate without the material. No point keeping tank drivers in the country when the tanks leave.
Compared to civilians where your just moving people, they don't get to bring the contents of their house with them.
Not to say this withdraw has been flawless, obviously it is. But there is a likely explanation for atleast some of it.
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On August 27 2021 04:32 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2021 04:24 Mohdoo wrote:
This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi. How can the military have left if soldier died in Afghanistan today? 'Some' of the military has left, because it takes time to relocate an army. Lots of material needs to be moved that you don't want to leave behind for the Taliban or ISIS. As material leaves the country parts of the military goes with them because they can't operate without the material. No point keeping tank drivers in the country when the tanks leave. Compared to civilians where your just moving people, they don't get to bring the contents of their house with them. Not to say this withdraw has been flawless, obviously it is. But there is a likely explanation for atleast some of it.
It’s also helpful to keep in mind that the State Department, the agency that would facilitate the removal of civilians alongside the military, got savaged by four years of Trump and has come nowhere near being as operational as it once was. Add in a president that probably relied too heavily on advisors that weren’t skeptical enough of our ability to quickly leave and we’ve got a recipe for trouble like this.
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On August 27 2021 04:24 Mohdoo wrote:
This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi.
What? Biden isnt resigning over anything. Let alone what happened in afghanistan as sad as its turned out. This is incredibly nieve. Sounds like a conservative talking point.
Its like theres collective amnesia we just came out of a Trump presidency.
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On August 27 2021 04:35 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2021 04:32 Gorsameth wrote:On August 27 2021 04:24 Mohdoo wrote:
This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi. How can the military have left if soldier died in Afghanistan today? 'Some' of the military has left, because it takes time to relocate an army. Lots of material needs to be moved that you don't want to leave behind for the Taliban or ISIS. As material leaves the country parts of the military goes with them because they can't operate without the material. No point keeping tank drivers in the country when the tanks leave. Compared to civilians where your just moving people, they don't get to bring the contents of their house with them. Not to say this withdraw has been flawless, obviously it is. But there is a likely explanation for atleast some of it. It’s also helpful to keep in mind that the State Department, the agency that would facilitate the removal of civilians alongside the military, got savaged by four years of Trump and has come nowhere near being as operational as it once was. Add in a president that probably relied too heavily on advisors that weren’t skeptical enough of our ability to quickly leave and we’ve got a recipe for trouble like this.
Regardless of what Trump did, I think Biden had an obligation to everyone involved to do whatever he intended to do safely. As I understand, we pulled out a ton of our military forces a few months ago. I remember a big story how basically everything happened at night because they couldn't trust the Afghanistan military. In my entirely ignorant view, the military should always be the first to arrive and last to leave. Their duty is to serve as protectors for people who can't be expected to protect themselves. For us to have decreased our military presence prior to all civilians being gone, and now losing control of the airport, represents direct failure in my eyes. I can't think of any scenario where this doesn't represent failure.
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On August 27 2021 04:46 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2021 04:35 farvacola wrote:On August 27 2021 04:32 Gorsameth wrote:On August 27 2021 04:24 Mohdoo wrote:
This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi. How can the military have left if soldier died in Afghanistan today? 'Some' of the military has left, because it takes time to relocate an army. Lots of material needs to be moved that you don't want to leave behind for the Taliban or ISIS. As material leaves the country parts of the military goes with them because they can't operate without the material. No point keeping tank drivers in the country when the tanks leave. Compared to civilians where your just moving people, they don't get to bring the contents of their house with them. Not to say this withdraw has been flawless, obviously it is. But there is a likely explanation for atleast some of it. It’s also helpful to keep in mind that the State Department, the agency that would facilitate the removal of civilians alongside the military, got savaged by four years of Trump and has come nowhere near being as operational as it once was. Add in a president that probably relied too heavily on advisors that weren’t skeptical enough of our ability to quickly leave and we’ve got a recipe for trouble like this. Regardless of what Trump did, I think Biden had an obligation to everyone involved to do whatever he intended to do safely. As I understand, we pulled out a ton of our military forces a few months ago. I remember a big story how basically everything happened at night because they couldn't trust the Afghanistan military. In my entirely ignorant view, the military should always be the first to arrive and last to leave. Their duty is to serve as protectors for people who can't be expected to protect themselves. For us to have decreased our military presence prior to all civilians being gone, and now losing control of the airport, represents direct failure in my eyes. I can't think of any scenario where this doesn't represent failure.
This is just an overblown news story if that is your view then. There are suicide bombers and other ISIS attacks in Kabul all the time that kill hundreds of people. The difference here is that it blew up a bunch of US military personnel instead of Afghans, but somehow you're mad that the military is gone.
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On August 27 2021 04:57 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2021 04:46 Mohdoo wrote:On August 27 2021 04:35 farvacola wrote:On August 27 2021 04:32 Gorsameth wrote:On August 27 2021 04:24 Mohdoo wrote:
This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi. How can the military have left if soldier died in Afghanistan today? 'Some' of the military has left, because it takes time to relocate an army. Lots of material needs to be moved that you don't want to leave behind for the Taliban or ISIS. As material leaves the country parts of the military goes with them because they can't operate without the material. No point keeping tank drivers in the country when the tanks leave. Compared to civilians where your just moving people, they don't get to bring the contents of their house with them. Not to say this withdraw has been flawless, obviously it is. But there is a likely explanation for atleast some of it. It’s also helpful to keep in mind that the State Department, the agency that would facilitate the removal of civilians alongside the military, got savaged by four years of Trump and has come nowhere near being as operational as it once was. Add in a president that probably relied too heavily on advisors that weren’t skeptical enough of our ability to quickly leave and we’ve got a recipe for trouble like this. Regardless of what Trump did, I think Biden had an obligation to everyone involved to do whatever he intended to do safely. As I understand, we pulled out a ton of our military forces a few months ago. I remember a big story how basically everything happened at night because they couldn't trust the Afghanistan military. In my entirely ignorant view, the military should always be the first to arrive and last to leave. Their duty is to serve as protectors for people who can't be expected to protect themselves. For us to have decreased our military presence prior to all civilians being gone, and now losing control of the airport, represents direct failure in my eyes. I can't think of any scenario where this doesn't represent failure. This is just an overblown news story if that is your view then. There are suicide bombers in Kabul all the time. The difference here is that it blew up a bunch of US military personnel instead of Afghans, but somehow you're mad that the military is gone.
Yes, that is correct. I have no relation to Afghanistan. I do not vote in their elections. When the Afghanistan government fails to defend its borders, it is not my bad. The failures of the US military are my bad so long as I pay taxes and choose to live in the US. I have every right to be more pissed about their fuck ups than I am about Afghanistan's fuck ups. I have some non-zero influence over the US military and some small fraction of this blood is on my hands. I am mad at the person who was in charge.
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On August 27 2021 05:02 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2021 04:57 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On August 27 2021 04:46 Mohdoo wrote:On August 27 2021 04:35 farvacola wrote:On August 27 2021 04:32 Gorsameth wrote:On August 27 2021 04:24 Mohdoo wrote:
This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi. How can the military have left if soldier died in Afghanistan today? 'Some' of the military has left, because it takes time to relocate an army. Lots of material needs to be moved that you don't want to leave behind for the Taliban or ISIS. As material leaves the country parts of the military goes with them because they can't operate without the material. No point keeping tank drivers in the country when the tanks leave. Compared to civilians where your just moving people, they don't get to bring the contents of their house with them. Not to say this withdraw has been flawless, obviously it is. But there is a likely explanation for atleast some of it. It’s also helpful to keep in mind that the State Department, the agency that would facilitate the removal of civilians alongside the military, got savaged by four years of Trump and has come nowhere near being as operational as it once was. Add in a president that probably relied too heavily on advisors that weren’t skeptical enough of our ability to quickly leave and we’ve got a recipe for trouble like this. Regardless of what Trump did, I think Biden had an obligation to everyone involved to do whatever he intended to do safely. As I understand, we pulled out a ton of our military forces a few months ago. I remember a big story how basically everything happened at night because they couldn't trust the Afghanistan military. In my entirely ignorant view, the military should always be the first to arrive and last to leave. Their duty is to serve as protectors for people who can't be expected to protect themselves. For us to have decreased our military presence prior to all civilians being gone, and now losing control of the airport, represents direct failure in my eyes. I can't think of any scenario where this doesn't represent failure. This is just an overblown news story if that is your view then. There are suicide bombers in Kabul all the time. The difference here is that it blew up a bunch of US military personnel instead of Afghans, but somehow you're mad that the military is gone. Yes, that is correct. I have no relation to Afghanistan. I do not vote in their elections. When the Afghanistan government fails to defend its borders, it is not my bad. The failures of the US military are my bad so long as I pay taxes and choose to live in the US. I have every right to be more pissed about their fuck ups than I am about Afghanistan's fuck ups. I have some non-zero influence over the US military and some small fraction of this blood is on my hands. I am mad at the person who was in charge.
Well I'm no military general, but I'd say the best way to not get suicide bombed is to leave the country.
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On August 27 2021 05:02 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2021 04:57 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On August 27 2021 04:46 Mohdoo wrote:On August 27 2021 04:35 farvacola wrote:On August 27 2021 04:32 Gorsameth wrote:On August 27 2021 04:24 Mohdoo wrote:
This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi. How can the military have left if soldier died in Afghanistan today? 'Some' of the military has left, because it takes time to relocate an army. Lots of material needs to be moved that you don't want to leave behind for the Taliban or ISIS. As material leaves the country parts of the military goes with them because they can't operate without the material. No point keeping tank drivers in the country when the tanks leave. Compared to civilians where your just moving people, they don't get to bring the contents of their house with them. Not to say this withdraw has been flawless, obviously it is. But there is a likely explanation for atleast some of it. It’s also helpful to keep in mind that the State Department, the agency that would facilitate the removal of civilians alongside the military, got savaged by four years of Trump and has come nowhere near being as operational as it once was. Add in a president that probably relied too heavily on advisors that weren’t skeptical enough of our ability to quickly leave and we’ve got a recipe for trouble like this. Regardless of what Trump did, I think Biden had an obligation to everyone involved to do whatever he intended to do safely. As I understand, we pulled out a ton of our military forces a few months ago. I remember a big story how basically everything happened at night because they couldn't trust the Afghanistan military. In my entirely ignorant view, the military should always be the first to arrive and last to leave. Their duty is to serve as protectors for people who can't be expected to protect themselves. For us to have decreased our military presence prior to all civilians being gone, and now losing control of the airport, represents direct failure in my eyes. I can't think of any scenario where this doesn't represent failure. This is just an overblown news story if that is your view then. There are suicide bombers in Kabul all the time. The difference here is that it blew up a bunch of US military personnel instead of Afghans, but somehow you're mad that the military is gone. Yes, that is correct. I have no relation to Afghanistan. I do not vote in their elections. When the Afghanistan government fails to defend its borders, it is not my bad. The failures of the US military are my bad so long as I pay taxes and choose to live in the US. I have every right to be more pissed about their fuck ups than I am about Afghanistan's fuck ups. I have some non-zero influence over the US military and some small fraction of this blood is on my hands. I am mad at the person who was in charge. More military does not stop bombs from going off in large concentrations of people.
20 years in Afghanistan and Iraq made that pretty obvious.
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On August 27 2021 05:37 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2021 05:02 Mohdoo wrote:On August 27 2021 04:57 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On August 27 2021 04:46 Mohdoo wrote:On August 27 2021 04:35 farvacola wrote:On August 27 2021 04:32 Gorsameth wrote:On August 27 2021 04:24 Mohdoo wrote:
This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi. How can the military have left if soldier died in Afghanistan today? 'Some' of the military has left, because it takes time to relocate an army. Lots of material needs to be moved that you don't want to leave behind for the Taliban or ISIS. As material leaves the country parts of the military goes with them because they can't operate without the material. No point keeping tank drivers in the country when the tanks leave. Compared to civilians where your just moving people, they don't get to bring the contents of their house with them. Not to say this withdraw has been flawless, obviously it is. But there is a likely explanation for atleast some of it. It’s also helpful to keep in mind that the State Department, the agency that would facilitate the removal of civilians alongside the military, got savaged by four years of Trump and has come nowhere near being as operational as it once was. Add in a president that probably relied too heavily on advisors that weren’t skeptical enough of our ability to quickly leave and we’ve got a recipe for trouble like this. Regardless of what Trump did, I think Biden had an obligation to everyone involved to do whatever he intended to do safely. As I understand, we pulled out a ton of our military forces a few months ago. I remember a big story how basically everything happened at night because they couldn't trust the Afghanistan military. In my entirely ignorant view, the military should always be the first to arrive and last to leave. Their duty is to serve as protectors for people who can't be expected to protect themselves. For us to have decreased our military presence prior to all civilians being gone, and now losing control of the airport, represents direct failure in my eyes. I can't think of any scenario where this doesn't represent failure. This is just an overblown news story if that is your view then. There are suicide bombers in Kabul all the time. The difference here is that it blew up a bunch of US military personnel instead of Afghans, but somehow you're mad that the military is gone. Yes, that is correct. I have no relation to Afghanistan. I do not vote in their elections. When the Afghanistan government fails to defend its borders, it is not my bad. The failures of the US military are my bad so long as I pay taxes and choose to live in the US. I have every right to be more pissed about their fuck ups than I am about Afghanistan's fuck ups. I have some non-zero influence over the US military and some small fraction of this blood is on my hands. I am mad at the person who was in charge. More military does not stop bombs from going off in large concentrations of people. 20 years in Afghanistan and Iraq made that pretty obvious.
Do you mean to imply Kabul was equally safe 3 months ago?
Here's how president Mohdoo would have handled this:
1) Before a single American civilian or military anything leaves, all civilians are told they have 1 month to hop on a plane. If they do not hop in a plane in 1 month they are totally fucked and no one will save them. Let that be totally known ahead of time
2) 1 month of evacuations
3) All military leave
I don't see the downside to this. I definitely think the civilians have a ton of blame here too. A lot of people are refusing to leave. Its insane.
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Kabul was less safe 3 months ago, lol.
They've been telling the civilians to get out for 4 months+ now and yet there are still Americans running animal shelters in Kabul.
Of course the actual evac has been incredibly chaotic but they basically did follow your plans, except the 1 month was impossible with how the situation developed.
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On August 27 2021 05:47 Fildun wrote:
Kabul was less safe 3 months ago, lol.
They've been telling the civilians to get out for 4 months+ now and yet there are still Americans running animal shelters in Kabul.
Of course the actual evac has been incredibly chaotic but they basically did follow your plans, except the 1 month was impossible with how the situation developed.
I am saying president Mohdoo would not have done this before the full evacuation https://apnews.com/article/bagram-afghanistan-airfield-us-troops-f3614828364f567593251aaaa167e623
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On August 27 2021 05:44 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2021 05:37 Gorsameth wrote:On August 27 2021 05:02 Mohdoo wrote:On August 27 2021 04:57 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On August 27 2021 04:46 Mohdoo wrote:On August 27 2021 04:35 farvacola wrote:On August 27 2021 04:32 Gorsameth wrote:On August 27 2021 04:24 Mohdoo wrote:
This is likely “good news” for the infrastructure bill since it forces sinema and Manchin to defend Biden through better media coverage. I don’t think Biden will resign. I don’t understand why the military left before civilians. Just so confused. What a tragedy. This feels like an ACTUAL Benghazi. How can the military have left if soldier died in Afghanistan today? 'Some' of the military has left, because it takes time to relocate an army. Lots of material needs to be moved that you don't want to leave behind for the Taliban or ISIS. As material leaves the country parts of the military goes with them because they can't operate without the material. No point keeping tank drivers in the country when the tanks leave. Compared to civilians where your just moving people, they don't get to bring the contents of their house with them. Not to say this withdraw has been flawless, obviously it is. But there is a likely explanation for atleast some of it. It’s also helpful to keep in mind that the State Department, the agency that would facilitate the removal of civilians alongside the military, got savaged by four years of Trump and has come nowhere near being as operational as it once was. Add in a president that probably relied too heavily on advisors that weren’t skeptical enough of our ability to quickly leave and we’ve got a recipe for trouble like this. Regardless of what Trump did, I think Biden had an obligation to everyone involved to do whatever he intended to do safely. As I understand, we pulled out a ton of our military forces a few months ago. I remember a big story how basically everything happened at night because they couldn't trust the Afghanistan military. In my entirely ignorant view, the military should always be the first to arrive and last to leave. Their duty is to serve as protectors for people who can't be expected to protect themselves. For us to have decreased our military presence prior to all civilians being gone, and now losing control of the airport, represents direct failure in my eyes. I can't think of any scenario where this doesn't represent failure. This is just an overblown news story if that is your view then. There are suicide bombers in Kabul all the time. The difference here is that it blew up a bunch of US military personnel instead of Afghans, but somehow you're mad that the military is gone. Yes, that is correct. I have no relation to Afghanistan. I do not vote in their elections. When the Afghanistan government fails to defend its borders, it is not my bad. The failures of the US military are my bad so long as I pay taxes and choose to live in the US. I have every right to be more pissed about their fuck ups than I am about Afghanistan's fuck ups. I have some non-zero influence over the US military and some small fraction of this blood is on my hands. I am mad at the person who was in charge. More military does not stop bombs from going off in large concentrations of people. 20 years in Afghanistan and Iraq made that pretty obvious. Do you mean to imply Kabul was equally safe 3 months ago? Here's how president Mohdoo would have handled this: 1) Before a single American civilian or military anything leaves, all civilians are told they have 1 month to hop on a plane. If they do not hop in a plane in 1 month they are totally fucked and no one will save them. Let that be totally known ahead of time 2) 1 month of evacuations 3) All military leave I don't see the downside to this. I definitely think the civilians have a ton of blame here too. A lot of people are refusing to leave. Its insane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_attacks_in_Kabul#2021
Yeah seemed very safe before the military left /s
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EPT
