|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On January 13 2021 06:16 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2021 06:14 JimmiC wrote:
The drunk tourist excuse is getting pretty hard to swallow, pipe bombs are not for vacationing or partying. It never should have been swallowed tbh, these people brought a gallows with them to hang Mike Pence with, this was always more than just the dumb people stealing lecterns and taking selfies. Also grade stand joke, I didn't notice til KwarK pointed it out, but that is high tier work.
One really good thing that could happen is if the movement splinters and they start pointing at eachother. I have a feeling that many who still support the storming don't realize they support some extremely dangerous domestic terrorists, even if they were a small minority.
|
On January 13 2021 06:14 JimmiC wrote:
The drunk tourist excuse is getting pretty hard to swallow, pipe bombs are not for vacationing or partying.
They were just having a blast. :-)
|
Trump now saying that he's safe from the 25th amendment, and that Biden needs to be careful at his next speech or else he'll be haunted by it. Spite and pettiness aside, what does he think the 25th amendment is? It's not like a ghost they let loose by opening a secret vault in the White House, and now it will roam the land until it finds a sitting president worthy of sacrifice or some shit. It's a clause that was added to the Constitution. And if Trump isn't getting nailed for the 25th amendment, then I can't imagine it having real teeth on any other president in my lifetime. More of his usual projection to distract from the very real attack he launched on our country.
|
Northern Ireland26476 Posts
On January 13 2021 06:32 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2021 06:16 Zambrah wrote:On January 13 2021 06:14 JimmiC wrote:
The drunk tourist excuse is getting pretty hard to swallow, pipe bombs are not for vacationing or partying. It never should have been swallowed tbh, these people brought a gallows with them to hang Mike Pence with, this was always more than just the dumb people stealing lecterns and taking selfies. Also grade stand joke, I didn't notice til KwarK pointed it out, but that is high tier work. One really good thing that could happen is if the movement splinters and they start pointing at eachother. I have a feeling that many who still support the storming don't realize they support some extremely dangerous domestic terrorists, even if they were a small minority.
They keep doing that already though but it doesn’t seem to have fragmented that core lunatic constituency much.
It’s frankly utterly bizarre, Donald Trump is one of the most self-evidently unworthy humans in public life of any loyalty or adoration, but he inspires a genuinely cult-like devotion with these lunatics.
I’m not a fan by any means but it went to ‘hang Mike Pence’ pretty damn quickly, for his grievous crime of acknowledgment of the results of an election.
The only good that can come of this is if decent conservatives start cleaning house after a big wake-up call and purge their ranks. Forgive me for being a pessimist that this will happen given the 4+ years of stubborn refusal to see the forest for the trees.
Instead we’ll probably get a lot of ‘what about BLM?’ ecquivocating, although I hope I’m wrong on that.
|
Northern Ireland26476 Posts
On January 13 2021 07:33 NewSunshine wrote:
Trump now saying that he's safe from the 25th amendment, and that Biden needs to be careful at his next speech or else he'll be haunted by it. Spite and pettiness aside, what does he think the 25th amendment is? It's not like a ghost they let loose by opening a secret vault in the White House, and now it will roam the land until it finds a sitting president worthy of sacrifice or some shit. It's a clause that was added to the Constitution. And if Trump isn't getting nailed for the 25th amendment, then I can't imagine it having real teeth on any other president in my lifetime. More of his usual projection to distract from the very real attack he launched on our country.
Just utterly contemptible behaviour really. No huge surprises there but still.
|
On January 13 2021 07:52 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2021 06:32 Slydie wrote:On January 13 2021 06:16 Zambrah wrote:On January 13 2021 06:14 JimmiC wrote:
The drunk tourist excuse is getting pretty hard to swallow, pipe bombs are not for vacationing or partying. It never should have been swallowed tbh, these people brought a gallows with them to hang Mike Pence with, this was always more than just the dumb people stealing lecterns and taking selfies. Also grade stand joke, I didn't notice til KwarK pointed it out, but that is high tier work. One really good thing that could happen is if the movement splinters and they start pointing at eachother. I have a feeling that many who still support the storming don't realize they support some extremely dangerous domestic terrorists, even if they were a small minority. They keep doing that already though but it doesn’t seem to have fragmented that core lunatic constituency much. It’s frankly utterly bizarre, Donald Trump is one of the most self-evidently unworthy humans in public life of any loyalty or adoration, but he inspires a genuinely cult-like devotion with these lunatics. I’m not a fan by any means but it went to ‘hang Mike Pence’ pretty damn quickly, for his grievous crime of acknowledgment of the results of an election. The only good that can come of this is if decent conservatives start cleaning house after a big wake-up call and purge their ranks. Forgive me for being a pessimist that this will happen given the 4+ years of stubborn refusal to see the forest for the trees. Instead we’ll probably get a lot of ‘what about BLM?’ ecquivocating, although I hope I’m wrong on that. 138 House representatives and 7 senators voted against the election results despite an angry mob having just attacked the building because someone told them the election was stolen.
The GOP will no clean house because the crazies are the majority of the GOP at this point.
|
On January 13 2021 07:33 NewSunshine wrote:
Trump now saying that he's safe from the 25th amendment, and that Biden needs to be careful at his next speech or else he'll be haunted by it. Spite and pettiness aside, what does he think the 25th amendment is? It's not like a ghost they let loose by opening a secret vault in the White House, and now it will roam the land until it finds a sitting president worthy of sacrifice or some shit. It's a clause that was added to the Constitution. And if Trump isn't getting nailed for the 25th amendment, then I can't imagine it having real teeth on any other president in my lifetime. More of his usual projection to distract from the very real attack he launched on our country. Is he wrong tho?
As you say yourself, he wasn't removed for having instigated a coup to overturn the election. What else is left?
Pence refused to pull the trigger on the 25th, McConnell has stonewalled impeachment until after inauguration.
What is there for Trump to fear at this point? He is untouchable right now (for another 7 days, then hes fucked regardless).
|
Northern Ireland26476 Posts
On January 13 2021 07:58 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2021 07:52 WombaT wrote:On January 13 2021 06:32 Slydie wrote:On January 13 2021 06:16 Zambrah wrote:On January 13 2021 06:14 JimmiC wrote:
The drunk tourist excuse is getting pretty hard to swallow, pipe bombs are not for vacationing or partying. It never should have been swallowed tbh, these people brought a gallows with them to hang Mike Pence with, this was always more than just the dumb people stealing lecterns and taking selfies. Also grade stand joke, I didn't notice til KwarK pointed it out, but that is high tier work. One really good thing that could happen is if the movement splinters and they start pointing at eachother. I have a feeling that many who still support the storming don't realize they support some extremely dangerous domestic terrorists, even if they were a small minority. They keep doing that already though but it doesn’t seem to have fragmented that core lunatic constituency much. It’s frankly utterly bizarre, Donald Trump is one of the most self-evidently unworthy humans in public life of any loyalty or adoration, but he inspires a genuinely cult-like devotion with these lunatics. I’m not a fan by any means but it went to ‘hang Mike Pence’ pretty damn quickly, for his grievous crime of acknowledgment of the results of an election. The only good that can come of this is if decent conservatives start cleaning house after a big wake-up call and purge their ranks. Forgive me for being a pessimist that this will happen given the 4+ years of stubborn refusal to see the forest for the trees. Instead we’ll probably get a lot of ‘what about BLM?’ ecquivocating, although I hope I’m wrong on that. 138 House representatives and 7 senators voted against the election results despite an angry mob having just attacked the building because someone told them the election was stolen. The GOP will no clean house because the crazies are the majority of the GOP at this point.
Aye. As I said I’m not exactly holding my breath! There’s probably a happy medium to be found between leftists infamous infighting and the right’s tolerance and encouragement of everyone under that banner.
|
The reason so many people latch onto Trump is because they find him to be a "breath of fresh air", and the reason they find him to be a breath of fresh air is because he tells them that their behavior, which is contemptible by normal societal standards, is actually okay. So really, it's not because they love Trump as a person, or a leader. It doesn't matter whether it's him or the ghost of the 25th amendment or whoever, anyone that tells them they don't have to try to be a decent person anymore has an inherent appeal. They can abandon the struggle to be a better person, and the guilt that comes with being an asshole, if suddenly reality is defined such that they're not assholes anymore. That's how you get them to buy into the reality bubble they live in. Even still, he's appealing to them. Trump isn't subject to the 25th amendment, Biden is now, because he said so. They have to take his every word and run with it because if they don't then they have to question what initially brought them that far, and nobody likes admitting they're an asshole.
On January 13 2021 08:01 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2021 07:33 NewSunshine wrote:
Trump now saying that he's safe from the 25th amendment, and that Biden needs to be careful at his next speech or else he'll be haunted by it. Spite and pettiness aside, what does he think the 25th amendment is? It's not like a ghost they let loose by opening a secret vault in the White House, and now it will roam the land until it finds a sitting president worthy of sacrifice or some shit. It's a clause that was added to the Constitution. And if Trump isn't getting nailed for the 25th amendment, then I can't imagine it having real teeth on any other president in my lifetime. More of his usual projection to distract from the very real attack he launched on our country. Is he wrong tho? As you say yourself, he wasn't removed for having instigated a coup to overturn the election. What else is left? Pence refused to pull the trigger on the 25th, McConnell has stonewalled impeachment until after inauguration. What is there for Trump to fear at this point? He is untouchable right now (for another 7 days, then hes fucked regardless).
Not necessarily saying he's wrong that the 25th isn't going to touch him, more that the way he talks about it sounds insane and that he has to spin it in some way to make it the next play for his base. That's how he got people to attack the capitol on his behalf.
|
Holy shit, this is really big. Times is reporting that McConnell thinks Trump committed impeachable offenses and is happy that the Dems have impeached him for it, as it makes it easier to purge the party of Trump. Doesn't say if he'll vote in favor, but it is probably the biggest sign so far that Trump is on shaky grounds in a Senate trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/us/mitch-mcconnell-trump-impeachment.html
|
On January 13 2021 08:25 Nevuk wrote:Holy shit, this is really big. Times is reporting that McConnell thinks Trump committed impeachable offenses and is happy that the Dems have impeached him for it, as it makes it easier to purge the party of Trump. Doesn't say if he'll vote in favor, but it is probably the biggest sign so far that Trump is on shaky grounds in a Senate trial. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/us/mitch-mcconnell-trump-impeachment.html If McConnell wanted Trump removed he didn't need to send a reminder to Republicans about how its practically impossible to do while the Senate is in recess.
Actions > Words.
|
At this point I think it's about doing it afterward, in that way it fits with McConnell acknowledging that the GOP's need for reputation laundering is dire.
|
Sure. But the words matter a lot here. He's also been in talks about whether he should ask Trump to resign. He may prefer to have the trial after inauguration, who knows. His current policy may also change: that this leaked to the times is an indication that he or other GOP are testing the waters.
Cheney, 3rd highest house GOP has also said she's voting for impeachment.
|
On January 13 2021 08:25 Nevuk wrote:Holy shit, this is really big. Times is reporting that McConnell thinks Trump committed impeachable offenses and is happy that the Dems have impeached him for it, as it makes it easier to purge the party of Trump. Doesn't say if he'll vote in favor, but it is probably the biggest sign so far that Trump is on shaky grounds in a Senate trial. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/us/mitch-mcconnell-trump-impeachment.html
was about to mention that as well, yeah game is far from over.
25th is kinda a long shot, Trump is crazy no doubt, but 25th amendment crazy?
that there is only a slight possibility for it to fail - kinda like when facts are on a prosecutor's side in another black teen shooting e.g, but in their zeal they overcharge and then get owned in court and another cycle of anger and stupidity is started... - that should give Dems pause.
impeachment is the safer route, fail or not. you nail him and put Rs on the spot when their chief does yet another huge poopoo, this time one that is far too big to ignore.
Dems should say the country can only move forward with the healing after perpetrators are held responsible. it's possible now imho because Rs can somewhat safe face while getting rid of Trump. but we will see.
|
I mean, at least internally it's not *that* surprising McConnell wants Trump ineligible to hold future public office via impeachment. He wants his legacy to be cementing the power of the GOP for generations, and Trump has proved himself an enormous threat to the GOP's control of the Republican ticket, let alone the GOP's control of the country. I don't think Trump was even as useful a puppet as McConnell was hoping he would be-they got their tax bill and judges, sure, but I think McConnell believes a Republican president who wasn't a narcissistic baby who spewed lies constantly would have accomplished a lot more.
If Trump runs in 2024 as the Republican nominee, regardless of who wins, Mitch loses "bigly."
|
After spending years rebuilding a case deliberately mismanaged by her predecessor, Michigan AG Dana Nessel is going to charge former Michigan Governor Rick Snyder for his role in the Flint water crisis. This also tells me that Dana is going to run for governor in '22, which would be awesome. I have met and spoken with her a few times, she's someone to keep an eye on with reference to vacancies on the national stage.
Michigan plans to charge ex-Gov. Snyder in Flint water probe
|
On January 13 2021 03:33 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2021 02:42 Danglars wrote:On January 13 2021 01:52 Nouar wrote:In a blow for Trump and republicans in general, as he was a large donor, Sheldon Adelson died today. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/12/sheldon-adelson-casino-magnate-trump-donor-dies-aged-87As an anti-union, pro-israel (I mean, this is not an issue per se, but opposing a palestinian state, supporting illegal settlements etc... definitely is, in my view) billionnaire who made his fortune through gambling (meaning feasting on addiction), I am not going to miss him. He donated millions of dollars for Holocaust museums and a Jewish schools. He was quite the philanthropist. It’s a blow to the millions he helped, his wife, and his children. He selflessly paid employees during COVID shutdowns. And all people can think about is political disagreement. Yeah, I hope everybody speaking ill of the recently dead is called out for the absolute ghouls that they are. So, in your view then, if, let's say Jeff Bezos, dies today, he's gonna be a hero in your mind ? After all the bullshit he's done, the working conditions at Amazon etc ? His foundation did some good things, but... Let's see... Amazing, he did pay his employees during the shutdowns ! Good ! (I wouldn't call it "selfless" though, just "humane". It's a drop in a lake for him, as if you gave 20 bucks to a homeless guy) He was also one of the worst offenders for decades in denying employees to unionize, which usually allows them to fight better for their rights instead of being at the mercy of their boss' mood. He directly spent a whole lot more than what he spent during the shutdowns, to have states outlaw collective bargaining, to deny his employees rights. Such a wonderful, selfless boss, always thinking about his workforce, right ? Yeah. Great (depending on your views), he fought against cannabis legalization because his son died of it and he considered it a gateway to harder drugs. Oops, should we forget he made his fortune with casinos/gambling, a business that is rigged against players and exploits addiction to squeeze the money out of people ? Spending millions to know the better ways to make people waste money again, by studying cognitive patterns and addictive behaviour. Splendid ! Wonderful, he donated to create hospitals (oops, in illegal settlements where Israel didn't have the right to build). Cool, jewish schools and holocaust museums. I don't have anything against that, it's cool. He did good things to send jewish youngsters in Israel for visits, that's also good. The issue is that looking at his extreme views, I'm not sure if all those things are not proselytism, which I'm less fond of. Against a state for palestinians, against international agreements, he weaponized the israeli-american council to serve his views. THEN you have the political actions in the USA or Israel, where republicans going to primaries had nearly no choice but to cosy to him to have a chance, and then he held them. I hate that shit, it's called corruption and influence trafficking, even if Citizen United more or less legalized it (it's like, 99% legal as long as you don't "coordinate". Fuck PACs). For example to get states to forbid collective bargaining by unions. Largest backer of Trump (we kinda know about that guy) and Netanyahu (an extreme right-wing bastard), etc etc. I could care less about the Republican and Trump funding, but I definitely weigh how he got his wealth, and what are his aims in weaponizing it. In my view, it definitely skews a LOT more towards bad than good. So yeah, good, he spent a few hundred millions to somewhat good causes (let's round to 500M$, 3% of his wealth, which is less % of my net worth than I donated in the last 5 years alone, praise me when I'm dead). Ok let's be honest, it's probably more as I didn't do a full-on research on his returns of course, just the more visible stuff. I'm not sure he followed up on a 200M annual pledge since 2008 to israeli causes for example. And the rest.... Bah. Outside of the 500M+ in the last 10 years to gain influence in politics, it's stuff like Freedom's Watch, advocating to continue the war in Irak, etc etc. To compare, Bill & Melinda Gates are at 45B in donations, with the rest of their fortunes to be donated when they die. You will most definitely NOT find Sheldon Adelson in the "Giving Pledge" list. I am not desecrating him, I just hate wonderful eulogies for people who did a little good and a lot of bad. It doesn't cancel out. I just said that I (me, myself), am not going to miss him, and it's a blow to the funding of the republican party. Call me a ghoul if that makes you feel better. Do note that he donated mostly to causes that served jews. Only a little was spent on stuff like medical research through a smaller foundation, that serve everyone. You will call me a great globalist, but I'm not fond of communautarism. It would also be good of you to remember that I am not a democrat nor an american, and that Adelson was not tied to a party until 12/15years ago. I could care less about a party. I care about what people say and do, and fight for. It would also be good of you to even read my fucking post, I mean, it was three lines, hardly a wall of text, unlike this one. I'll quote to you : Show nested quote +As an anti-union, pro-israel (I mean, this is not an issue per se, but opposing a palestinian state, supporting illegal settlements etc... definitely is, in my view) billionnaire who made his fortune through gambling (meaning feasting on addiction), I am not going to miss him. Did that mention anything political in why I didn't like him ? No. The closest would be the illegal settlements, and that's more human rights and international law than politics.
Everyone deserves some respect, even if its the respect of silence since you can't say anything good about them, when they die. Anything less puts you at a realm barely human. Seriously. The totality of someone's character is not how you feel about Israel-Palestine, trade unionism, "too little spent on philanthropy compared to my ideal," political support of candidates, or whatever other political views you think are too far from mainstream.
Come at him in a couple days if you think he's scum of the earth. I basically disagree with almost every sentence of criticism you put in here. But even if I think you're ignorant or morally twisted or whatever life experience and thought process gave rise to these opinions you hold, I can respect you if you observe a modicum of politeness when someone dies. Trump, for all his faults, did himself well when RBG died to give a universally positive speech, so don't act at a level beneath even his corrupt moral character.
Even his ideological opposite, donating to causes I think trend towards destruction of good and loss of life, and all the other vitriol I could summon to describe him, George Soros, deserves quiet reflection should I find nothing good to say in the wake of his (eventual) death. I hope someday you argue yourself out of the immediate everything-bad-he-did at news of someone prominent dying, for the sake of politeness and a politics that doesn't live in the gutter of the street.
|
On January 13 2021 08:03 NewSunshine wrote:
The reason so many people latch onto Trump is because they find him to be a "breath of fresh air", and the reason they find him to be a breath of fresh air is because he tells them that their behavior, which is contemptible by normal societal standards, is actually okay. So really, it's not because they love Trump as a person, or a leader. It doesn't matter whether it's him or the ghost of the 25th amendment or whoever, anyone that tells them they don't have to try to be a decent person anymore has an inherent appeal. They can abandon the struggle to be a better person, and the guilt that comes with being an asshole, if suddenly reality is defined such that they're not assholes anymore. That's how you get them to buy into the reality bubble they live in. Even still, he's appealing to them. Trump isn't subject to the 25th amendment, Biden is now, because he said so. They have to take his every word and run with it because if they don't then they have to question what initially brought them that far, and nobody likes admitting they're an asshole.
That is very sharp analysis from what I've seen and heard from Trump voters actually. A lot of them feel tired of what they feel is pretending to be nice and polite and considerate, they want to be egoistical and follow their desires and not get criticized for it. So they gather around the most obviously egoistical guy with zero manners and zero conscience who basically excuses all their bad behavior by giving a precedent for much much worse.
In this way is not just the opposite movement to the left tolerance and welfare movements, but also to the increasing self-idolization through social media where everyone wants to be friends and uploads all the "look I'm so nice" profiles. And ofc to the "nice" politicians that end up making real politics.
It's kinda bizarre how well Trump actually utilizes these tendencies considering that he's a half-wit at best.
|
United States43761 Posts
I’m not sure there’s a better time to consider the totality of someone’s life, their deeds, and their net impact on the world than after it ends. Before would be premature. It’s not like he’s going to the funeral to shout abuse at the family. It’s tasteless to speak ill of the dead to those personally impacted by it but bad people don’t get a universal pass just because they died.
|
Northern Ireland26476 Posts
All ‘don’t speak ill of the dead’ really accomplishes for prominent public figures is to let them be canonised for a few days without their flaws to make the portrait 3D.
As a convention for people in your actual life, yeah sure if you didn’t have the balls to make your thoughts known in life then it’s a bit crass to do so post-mortem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
