US Politics Mega-thread - Page 283

On June 11 2018 05:14 A3th3r wrote:


Yep. Fines & counter-tariffs do work in a sort of system of checks & balances. I think the issue here is that the "do no harm policy" doesn't necessarily seem to impact Trump very much, & the guy is doing a lot more than most presidents try to do. Usually presidents try to show up to the important meetings & let congress sort out the specific details as they see fit, & they will maybe chime in with their point or two of things that they want changed. What's happening here is people are harming Trump, then getting mad when he harms them, & there are these sort of "tit-for-tat" exchanges that occur. It is weird that there is such angst about the president being protectionist. That said, I'm actually in the camp of folks that thinks he is being a little TOO protectionist of local industrial interests & could be a little more "pragmatic-minded."

On June 11 2018 13:30 Womwomwom wrote:


Trump's doing the harming first, where do you get the idea that "people are harming Trump?" It isn't Europe bringing back old school mercantilism (not even state capitalism) from the grave, its Trump who believes its still a valid economic policy in this day and age where everything operates in a giant global supply chain.

Tarrifs only work when you target specific industries that are actually killing local producers. The perfect example were Reagan's tarrifs on Honda motorcycle imports to help Harley Davidson regain some footing in the domestic market because they were getting beat both in cost and quality. Putting tarrifs on Canada steel and aluminium isn't protectionism, its nothing but sheer pettiness. There's no other reason because there was nothing hugely wrong with the current arrangement between the US and Canada. The entire Great Lakes region is basically a huge supply gain where both Canadian and American companies mutually benefit from location, this isn't a case of Canada freeloading off America or something else stupid.

The angst isn't about the President being protectionist, its him not understanding the first thing about protectionism. The idea that he'd tank the Canada-US supply chain while simultaneously contemplate reducing barriers for Russian metal products since Magnitogorsk in Ohio wants it can only be described as hilarious. But that's where we are today in current day US economic policy.

On June 11 2018 04:22 KwarK wrote:

No, because the US doesn't have a working tax system. In the US you tell your employer how much of your paycheck you would like them to give to the government to offset your tax obligation. It's actually up to you as an individual. Some people say too much and end up getting a big refund back the following year, while some people fuck it up and discover the following year that they owe money. Personally I decide in January how much tax I want to pay that year (because you pretty much can if you're an accountant) and give my employer the exact amount to withhold from each paycheck.

It creates a pretty huge disconnect between the individual and how much tax they actually have to pay. For example Trump's core base don't actually pay any income taxes at all, they simply loan money to the government and then get it back the following April. And yet they genuinely believe their taxes are too high because they don't understand how taxes work.

Trump's tax plan adds a trillion to the deficit over a few years while having no real benefits to the median American who wasn't paying shit in tax anyway. While I'm sure the individual claiming they're getting an additional $100 every paycheck believes it, I sincerely doubt it's true. It'd depend on their situation though, there are a few groups of big winners from the tax plan, notably single people with no dependents who are in good health and don't give to charity (and the rich of course).

On June 11 2018 11:51 DeepElemBlues wrote:


What's interesting is that this is precisely the position of Europe and Canada on many issues.

The United States should just take Germany and other European countries not living up to their NATO treaty obligations and be quiet.

The United States should just take tariffs and other uncompetitive trade policies from Canada and Germany etc. and be quiet.

I have yet to actually see an argument that the trade policies Trump complains about aren't unfair, instead it is just outrage that he would even dare express displeasure with them. The double standard is quite impressive.

The simple fact is that weak countries (in relation to the United States) have been acting for decades in certain areas of relations like they are strong countries. Their entitled leaders have reacted quite hysterically to the government of the United States, the stronger country, being unwilling unwilling at the moment to let that continue, and showing willingness to use its superior strength to change the situation.

I certainly understand their position, they've had a very good deal from the United States, generally speaking, since the war. If I were them I wouldn't want things to change. But they are making a rather large miscalculation if they think their current course will succeed.

On June 11 2018 20:15 levelping wrote:
Why is trump in my country

On June 11 2018 20:23 Plansix wrote:

He is going to make a great deal with NK by getting us nothing. But the photo op will be good for him.

On June 11 2018 21:41 levelping wrote:


Singapore is paying 15 million usd for this photo op

On June 11 2018 11:51 DeepElemBlues wrote:


The simple fact is that weak countries (in relation to the United States) have been acting for decades in certain areas of relations like they are strong countries. Their entitled leaders have reacted quite hysterically to the government of the United States, the stronger country, being unwilling unwilling at the moment to let that continue, and showing willingness to use its superior strength to change the situation.

I certainly understand their position, they've had a very good deal from the United States, generally speaking, since the war. If I were them I wouldn't want things to change. But they are making a rather large miscalculation if they think their current course will succeed.

After one White House adviser said there was "a special place in hell" for foreign leaders like Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, and another said Trudeau "stabbed us in the back," Canadian leaders offered a measured — even polite — response.

"Canada does not believe that ad hominem attacks are a particularly appropriate or useful way to conduct our relations with other countries," said Canadian foreign affairs minister Chrystia Freeland, according to the Toronto Star.

Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland: "Canada does not believe that ad hominem attacks are a particularly appropriate or useful way to conduct our relations with other countries."

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) June 10, 2018
The foreign affairs minister spoke to reporters in Ottawa and offered a markedly different tone from the attacks lobbed at Canada, one of the United States' closest allies, this weekend by President Trump and other members of his administration.

Tensions have been building between the two countries for months, as President Trump has targeted Canada as one of the many countries he sees as giving American the short end of the stick in trade deals.

Trump announced yesterday he was backing out of a joint statement made by the countries that attended this weekend's G-7 Summit in Canada, after Trudeau gave a press conference in which he said Canada planned to retaliate against the Trump administration's recently-announced tariffs that will commence July 1.

"I have made it clear to [President Trump] that it is not something we relish doing, but it is something that we absolutely will do," Trudeau said. "Canadians — we're polite, we're reasonable — but we also will not be pushed around."

Larry Kudlow, who is the director of the National Economic Council, appeared Sunday on CNN's State of the Union to defend Trump's decision to back out of the joint communique made at the end of the summit. The statement was a declaration of shared values and goals by the seven countries — the United States, Canada, Britain, France, Italy, Germany and Japan — that attended.

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow says Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau “stabbed us in the back” #CNNSOTU https://t.co/ASsMQJXmjn https://t.co/cpPfpwfzpz

— CNN Politics (@CNNPolitics) June 10, 2018
"[Trudeau] really kind of stabbed us in the back," Kudlow said. "He did a whole disservice to the whole G-7."

In a tweet posted Saturday evening, Trump said his decision to rescind support for the statement was based on "false statements" made by Trudeau during a press conference he gave, as well as "the fact that Canada is charging massive Tariffs" on U.S. companies.

Based on Justin’s false statements at his news conference, and the fact that Canada is charging massive Tariffs to our U.S. farmers, workers and companies, I have instructed our U.S. Reps not to endorse the Communique as we look at Tariffs on automobiles flooding the U.S. Market!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 9, 2018

On Fox News Sunday, White House Director of Trade Policy Peter Navarro also defended the president with adversarial language.

"There's a special place in hell for any foreign leader that engages in bad faith diplomacy with President Donald J. Trump and then tries to stab him in the back on the way out the door," Navarro said. "And that's what bad faith Justin Trudeau did with that stunt press conference. That's what weak, dishonest Justin Trudeau did. And that comes right from Air Force One."

Trump left Quebec before the G-7 summit had ended to head to Singapore, ahead of a highly anticipated meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, a longtime foe of the United States.

Kudlow said on CNN that Trump's reaction to Trudeau's comments has been "in large part" because he does not want "any show of weakness" ahead of that meeting.

"Kim must not see American weakness," Kudlow said. "[Trudeau] can't put Trump in a position of being weak going into the North Korean talks with Kim. He can't do that."

The Star reports that "There is no obvious precedent for White House officials publicly slamming a Canadian prime minister in such personal terms":

While other presidents and prime ministers have had testy relations — president Richard Nixon famously used a profane word, behind closed doors, to refer to Trudeau's father Pierre Trudeau, also in the context of trade talks — neither side has demonstrated this level of animosity since John Diefenbaker feuded with John F. Kennedy in the early 1960s.

After Kudlow's comments, Trump added to his string of criticisms against Canada in a series of tweets on Sunday night.

"Fair Trade is now to be called Fool Trade if it is not Reciprocal," he tweeted. "According to a Canada release, they make almost 100 Billion Dollars in Trade with U.S. (guess they were bragging and got caught!). Minimum is 17B. Tax Dairy from us at 270%. Then Justin acts hurt when called out!"

He also asked why he should allow countries to amass "Massive Trade Surpluses, as they have for decades, while our Farmers, Workers & Taxpayers have such a big and unfair price to pay? Not fair to the PEOPLE of America!"

He cited "a $800 Billion Trade Deficit" for the U.S., a number he's touted several times.

Trump says the U.S. "protects Europe" and "pays close to the entire cost of NATO."

The president concluded his tweetstorm by saying, "Sorry, we cannot let our friends, or enemies, take advantage of us on Trade anymore. We must put the American worker first!"

On June 11 2018 23:37 Plansix wrote:
Canada is less than thrilled with Trumps constant attacks and misplaced grievance against them. Especially when a lot of his complaints were being haggled out through the TPP. But more importantly, this is the most overt outward aggression against our neighbor in nearly 50 years. Even Nixon could keep this shit behind closed doors.