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On November 13 2020 20:59 pmh wrote:
Trump possibly wants to run in 2024 again. Normally i would say that would be impossible but it would be typically trump in some ways,making a comeback. Still i wonder how likely it is,4 years is a long time during which things can change. He will no doubt keep his hardcore base but if that would be enough for winning a 2nd primary i am not sure.
"I hope the Election thread posters don't go anywhere, the Old School Thread regulars need the shakeup imo, lol"
A shake up is welcome i do agree,participation from more people and different angles on actual topics would be good.
If i look at myself then i will probably post considerably less but i will stay around and at times give my opinion.
Tbh. I'm more interested in whether or not he will try to do a military coup to stop biden from becoming president. That too seems "impossible" but nobody knows what goes through orange mans head.
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On November 14 2020 00:13 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +Yeah, but people need to realize that currently the people who reap the fruits are mostly those who do nothing. The people that own the things don't think of it as doing nothing, though. They put in hard work and took risks to provide spaces for people to use their stuff! (sarcasm, but you get this gist of how your argument will fly in the face of those people) Another one you'll have a hard time getting to pass. Some people understand this (because its their inherent characteristic), other people will never understand this, because it doesn't make sense to them. The sentiment of people needing to share the "fruit of their labor" will only make sense once its permeated in every layer of society. You'll need the entirety of government on board with that before you can have an actual plan of action, like systematically eradicating smoking from public spaces and drunk driving - because as far as I remember, that's been going on for over 20 years and it's still prevalent.
Ehh, I'm just spitballing here but iirc the incidence of both drunk driving and smoking has decreased dramatically since the days when neither were considered public health concerns.
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On November 14 2020 00:22 Jan1997 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2020 20:59 pmh wrote:
Trump possibly wants to run in 2024 again. Normally i would say that would be impossible but it would be typically trump in some ways,making a comeback. Still i wonder how likely it is,4 years is a long time during which things can change. He will no doubt keep his hardcore base but if that would be enough for winning a 2nd primary i am not sure.
"I hope the Election thread posters don't go anywhere, the Old School Thread regulars need the shakeup imo, lol"
A shake up is welcome i do agree,participation from more people and different angles on actual topics would be good.
If i look at myself then i will probably post considerably less but i will stay around and at times give my opinion. Tbh. I'm more interested in whether or not he will try to do a military coup to stop biden from becoming president. That too seems "impossible" but nobody knows what goes through orange mans head.
His pattern of behavior is to whine endlessly and then do nothing. It's been seen when courts have frustrated his agenda and when Pelosi's House has blocked legislation he wants. "But he's going to end Democracy through executive order" was a big thing back then too. It didn't happen.
But for the hysteria, I can hardly imagine a worse way to comport yourself. It was originally that his judges would hand the election to him, remember? And then judges from all different appointed parties have tossed out his lawsuits (and allies) like was always going to happen. Where's the predicted widespread, violent right-wing riots by his supporters? 2016 riots had millions of dollars of damages across major cities. But enough about those hysterias, now on to military hysteria.
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm gaining a lot of respect for leftists that simply know that Trump exits on January 20th and all this is theater. It shouldn't be laudatory behavior given how small the self discipline required. Use your brains. Trump's all about the big New York talk with these things. The constitutional system stands.
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Norway28908 Posts
I mean, I agree that it's overwhelmingly likely that he will exit on jan 20th. I'm not worried about an impending civil war, nor do I think Trump is gonna keep ruling (which I think would be a fairly legit reason to start a civil war, tbh. )
But I still think his actions are really damaging for your society. It's not that I think he succeeds in holding on to power, but I do think he succeeds in destroying american faith in your democracy. I saw somebody link a poll saying only 26% of republicans believe this election was fair. That is a really terrifying number of people thinking it isn't. (It's not lost to me that there exists a parallel between this whining and Hillary whining about the russians, but again, the magnitudes of bad behavior are so different that I also don't accept that they are really comparable. And also, while I never really cared about the whole russian stooge stuff (to me it was irrelevant), I also think that had a lot more legs than the mailed-ballots-are-fraudulent claim does. )
Also, welcome back!
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Sadly I assume riots will come once the administration stops saying there will be a second Trump term and concede/get ditched from the WH. As of now the radicalized Trumpers still think they are winning. All sorts of talk by figureheads like Ken Starr about having state legislature overrule the vote and appoint loyalist electors. Peter Navarro saying they are working under assumption of a second Trump term. The hope is still alive. I don't think it will be pretty once reality sets in.
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I'm one of those that knows he's going to exit, regardless of what he tries. The things he's trying are still a bit worrisome though, because some of the people expressing alarm are a bit unusual and he's trying a LOT of things out. A lot of his base still believes that he has won, so I am not so sure that we won't see violence (as the 2016 protests/riots came after Hillary conceded, not before).
Per NYT, Trump has asked if he could replace the electoral college with loyalists to him
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/12/us/politics/trump-future.html?
Pentagon officials are worried about the Sec Def ouster, and retired generals are commenting that they're afraid of his underlings.
Trump asked top CISA official to resign after they refused to back some of his insane fraud claims, per reuters
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-resignation/senior-u-s-cybersecurity-official-asked-to-resign-amid-trump-transition-tumult
On the positive side, the people turning on Trump over his refusal to concede are a lot more influential than the ones standing by his side, on average (mostly because of Adelson and him losing two large law firms).
GOPers who have outright stated it so far : Sheldon Adelson's paper (he was Trump's biggest backer financially, I think? 75 million), Karl Rove, Hugh Hewitt, Geraldo Rivera, AZ AG, GA SoS
Implied it : Grassley, OK senator. They've stated Biden should be given intel briefings (though have been mum on the election results).
Adelson's paper:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-president-donald-trump-seeks-to-delay-the-inevitable-2181720/
Hugh Hewitt:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/07/georgia-trump-it-may-be-2024/
Rove:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/this-election-result-wont-be-overturned-11605134335
Porter Wright, one of the two major lawfirms representing Trump's campaign, has withdrawn from Trump's cases in PA (the only ones they were working on), and Snell & Wilmer, his AZ law firm, has also withdrawn from the cases in AZ after sharpiegate turned into a mockery.
https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/second-major-law-firm-representing-trump-in-election-lawsuits-abandons-ship/
On november 3rd, the chairman of the JCOS told networks that the military would NOT get involved in the election results, btw. https://www.axios.com/milley-tv-anchors-call-military-no-election-role-1570714a-3532-4102-8f24-69fbd2d375e2.html
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On November 14 2020 00:24 farvacola wrote:
Ehh, I'm just spitballing here but iirc the incidence of both drunk driving and smoking has decreased dramatically since the days when neither were considered public health concerns.
Yes, it has gone down dramatically, yet it's still a thing. So getting literally everyone on board that sharing should be a thing, is not just gonna be a thought you can imprint overnight. It'll take a generation or 2.
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On November 14 2020 00:37 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2020 00:22 Jan1997 wrote:On November 13 2020 20:59 pmh wrote:
Trump possibly wants to run in 2024 again. Normally i would say that would be impossible but it would be typically trump in some ways,making a comeback. Still i wonder how likely it is,4 years is a long time during which things can change. He will no doubt keep his hardcore base but if that would be enough for winning a 2nd primary i am not sure.
"I hope the Election thread posters don't go anywhere, the Old School Thread regulars need the shakeup imo, lol"
A shake up is welcome i do agree,participation from more people and different angles on actual topics would be good.
If i look at myself then i will probably post considerably less but i will stay around and at times give my opinion. Tbh. I'm more interested in whether or not he will try to do a military coup to stop biden from becoming president. That too seems "impossible" but nobody knows what goes through orange mans head. . Where's the predicted widespread, violent right-wing riots by his supporters?
They all think he won. Things are fine for now. They truly believe they have no reason to riot right now.
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Sure seems like there are better people to be criticizing in this saga than liberals who have been gaslighted into believing anything sufficiently terrible and improbable will find a way to happen. Yes, they’re catastrophizing, but if one party believes the only way they can lose an election is through clandestine Illuminati organized fraud, it’s probably not irrational to think this all ends catastrophically (though probably not as soon as January 20th).
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Norway28908 Posts
I mean, I am slightly surprised in a positive way that I haven't heard of any gunshots fired from any of the stop the count groups..? (I heard of armed men halting the count somewhere, but no shootings. Do correct me if I'm wrong here. )
If that reflects itself in the post-official-biden-win-riots, by becoming equally less severe compared to my expectation, that'd be wonderful.
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As a european i am quite shocked about this situation. america is in even worse condition then i thought....how can almost half the people vote this trump guy and now still believe all the bullshit lies he is telling on twitter with no evidence at all??? not gonna even start with how embarrassing it is that he acts the way he does as the president of the united states...
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United States44371 Posts
Danglars, all the people who correctly read Trump’s character years ago and called him a fascist wannabe dictator have all been proved right. All those people who called out the GOP, and apologists such as yourself, have all been proven right. The guy is refusing to leave power after a free and fair election and you’ve been supporting him placing his cronies in office, packing the courts, and abusing his powers to target political opposition.
You cannot now point to his inability to properly execute a coup as a defence for your actions. The fact that he’s too stupid to properly ensure the loyalty of the people he needs doesn’t make you any less of a Quisling. Everyone calling him a fascist was right. Your defence of him aged badly. Hell, Hitler was too stupid to properly win WW2 but that doesn’t mean those who enabled him can say “see, it wasn’t as bad as all that“ on VE Day. You supported the fascist and got lucky that he’s a stupid one. It’s made worse by the fact that the only things keeping him in line are those people you’ve been arguing against for years. It wasn’t that he wasn’t so bad, it’s that he was stopped, and stopped in spite of your efforts. Had it been up to you American democracy would be over and you’d have cheered it on.
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Trump's attempts to undermine our democracy should absolutely be called out for what they are. The reason our institutions hold is not because there's some omniscient force ensuring they hold, it's because we the people make sure they're respected.
The door may hold, that doesn't mean there isn't a big orange racist moron with a battering ram doing his worst to break it. That absolutely deserves to be called out.
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Some covid updates.
A massive number of members of the secret service (130 - approximately 10%) are in quarantine after Trump's pre election rallies, per WaPo.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-service-coronavirus-outbreak/2020/11/13/610eebcc-2539-11eb-8672-c281c7a2c96e_story.html
Corey Lewandowski now has COVID, as does the RNC chief of staff and some other high ranking GOP members.
We're also entering our 10th straight day of >100k daily infections, with no end in sight. The CDC had to make up a new category for how badly WI is being hit. It's entirely possible we quadruple our numbers before Trump leaves office.
Also, Rand Paul has said that survivors should "throw away their masks and celebrate", just yesterday.
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This is just the latest one in a long string in the past 4 years that I've looked at Trump's rhetoric and/or actions and thought to myself "that would be to embarrassing to happen in Romania". Are you sure this is the level you want your country's executive office to be playing at, Danglars?
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On November 14 2020 01:50 KwarK wrote:
doesn’t make you any less of a Quisling
Is this a word used regularly outside of Norway? I wouldn't have expected people around the world to be familiar with Norwegian WW2 history.
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On November 14 2020 02:43 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2020 01:50 KwarK wrote:
doesn’t make you any less of a Quisling Is this a word used regularly outside of Norway? I wouldn't have expected people around the world to be familiar with Norwegian WW2 history.
The first hit when googling it is the dictionary:
quisling
/ˈkwɪzlɪŋ/
noun: quisling; plural noun: quislings
a traitor who collaborates with an enemy force occupying their country.
"he had the Quisling owner of the factory arrested"
The wikipedia page of the norwegian nazi politician comes second.
Impressive how one person can be this much of a traitor, so that their name becomes an actual word used for collaborateur.
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United States44371 Posts
On November 14 2020 02:43 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2020 01:50 KwarK wrote:
doesn’t make you any less of a Quisling Is this a word used regularly outside of Norway? I wouldn't have expected people around the world to be familiar with Norwegian WW2 history.
Yep, he made it into the English language as a synonym for Nazi collaborator. Cool legacy.
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On November 14 2020 02:43 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2020 01:50 KwarK wrote:
doesn’t make you any less of a Quisling Is this a word used regularly outside of Norway? I wouldn't have expected people around the world to be familiar with Norwegian WW2 history.
It's not used regularly, but anyone familiar with ww2 should know what it's supposed to mean. I mean you shouldn't expect people to know the name, but if they do know it, then the meaning should be obvious to them.
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I learned the word Quisling from World War Z, when people who go crazy and think they are zombies are called Quislings.
@Danglars, sure, we know he doesn't have options. But we should be aware of what he can do, the damage he can do and the long term effects this will cause. I also would think it would be more embarrassing to support a fascist than to be worried about one, but I know you have your preferences.
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EPT
