US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2825

On November 14 2020 07:08 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:

Yeah about that...The goverment is holding a mass welcome dinner for the new house members

+ Show Spoiler +

On November 14 2020 07:26 Artisreal wrote:
Politicians lead by example.
Or so I heard once.

Let's hold an effing banquet for the new aristocrats. We are better than the brutes and won't be affected by the substance of alcohol as much as they are. Social distancing won't be a problem. And if so, we just switch the ventilation on high. Or buy some more ventilators with taxpayer money.
Sometimes it's hard to believe what's happening.

Do they really think this is fine to do in the current situation.
Even if it were safe, it doesn't quite send the right message in my opinion. The easy an important information is to stay distanced, at home is possible and avoid indoor gatherings.

On November 14 2020 07:47 FlaShFTW wrote:

reason #51023 for why politicians are the worst crop of people in america. screw the rules, im in congress.

On November 14 2020 07:55 Wegandi wrote:


Yet, everyone here wants to give them more power, much more, including over their health (plus you know, you saw someone like Trump can get elected, why would you want to give DC more power over you...). Meanwhile in China....

https://hongkongfp.com/2020/11/12/death-sentence-for-hong-kong-democracy-ngos-activists-govts-react-as-democrats-unseated-from-legislature/?fbclid=IwAR1aDPS1EiqzuypNoMgvJaoILTyXnaAQ3lm_GqjX6IG_uPyz39FhvMMkb4w

With COVID and the unprecedented restrictions on our liberties in the West it appears no where is safe in the world from the ratcheting up of authoritarianism.

This is also fucked up: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54890229 (Denmark culled millions of their minks merely over a concern about C-mutation - this isn't the freaking bubonic plague killing 25-50% of your population)

For the record they killed 17 million. Fuck Governments.

On November 14 2020 07:55 Wegandi wrote:


Yet, everyone here wants to give them more power, much more, including over their health (plus you know, you saw someone like Trump can get elected, why would you want to give DC more power over you...). Meanwhile in China....

https://hongkongfp.com/2020/11/12/death-sentence-for-hong-kong-democracy-ngos-activists-govts-react-as-democrats-unseated-from-legislature/?fbclid=IwAR1aDPS1EiqzuypNoMgvJaoILTyXnaAQ3lm_GqjX6IG_uPyz39FhvMMkb4w

With COVID and the unprecedented restrictions on our liberties in the West it appears no where is safe in the world from the ratcheting up of authoritarianism.

This is also fucked up: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54890229 (Denmark culled millions of their minks merely over a concern about C-mutation - this isn't the freaking bubonic plague killing 25-50% of your population)

For the record they killed 17 million. Fuck Governments.

On November 14 2020 08:01 WarSame wrote:
The good news (for Canada) is that we have an extremely promising opportunity to get tons of really highly skilled immigrants. Every cloud has a silver lining.

Though I agree with you Wegandi, I fear governments getting too much power. I think in general you should be fairly libertarian(left or right) but during emergencies(wars, pandemics, droughts) you should be willing to become more centralized and authoritarian for pragmatic reasons. The issue is that it's hard to unroll the authoritarianism. I would love to see a President come in and work on lowering their powers, devolving them back to Congress, remove the power from EOs, etc.

I can buy in with you on the centralization of power and the personal liberty part of libertarianism. I just can't buy the raw market approach libertarians seem to believe must happen. Voucher schools could be very useful, but libertarians seem to be so against things like UBI for principle reasons when that just shouldn't be the case.

On November 14 2020 08:17 Wegandi wrote:


The problem with UBI just like with Georgism is in practice - they're meant to get rid of the welfare bureaucracy and reduce overall welfare spending (and in the case of Georgism significantly reduce taxation burden), but that never happens. What happens is it just adds to the existing structure and piles on more redistribution and disincentive for productive work.

Plus how can you disentangle the idea of a centralized powerful State and then give it enormous economic power? The USSR would have been no less authoritarian if it kept the Gosplan, but had high marks for civil liberties. They kind of go together in practice, never mind the logical and moral implications where our liberties originate from - from self-propriety/ownership. From there you get Lockean homesteading, contracts, notion of what is just or unjust concerning trade and property, etc.

There's no logic to the folks who are for civil rights, but want centralized State authority over your entire sphere of life (and yes, economics is that - it is our time, our labor, our dreams and bodily action). You say I can't trade because I don't have a permit - that's an imposition on my body, or you take 60% of my income (basically 60% of my time and thus of my working life that has been stolen from me).

On November 14 2020 08:17 Wegandi wrote:


The problem with UBI just like with Georgism is in practice - they're meant to get rid of the welfare bureaucracy and reduce overall welfare spending (and in the case of Georgism significantly reduce taxation burden), but that never happens. What happens is it just adds to the existing structure and piles on more redistribution and disincentive for productive work.

Plus how can you disentangle the idea of a centralized powerful State and then give it enormous economic power? The USSR would have been no less authoritarian if it kept the Gosplan, but had high marks for civil liberties. They kind of go together in practice, never mind the logical and moral implications where our liberties originate from - from self-propriety/ownership. From there you get Lockean homesteading, contracts, notion of what is just or unjust concerning trade and property, etc.

There's no logic to the folks who are for civil rights, but want centralized State authority over your entire sphere of life (and yes, economics is that - it is our time, our labor, our dreams and bodily action). You say I can't trade because I don't have a permit - that's an imposition on my body, or you take 60% of my income (basically 60% of my time and thus of my working life that has been stolen from me).

On November 14 2020 08:17 Wegandi wrote:
PS: I find it funny how everyone ignores the shit China does and just pounces on the minks. Good look.

On November 14 2020 08:24 KwarK wrote:

Your rate of pay within a society doesn’t represent your productivity in a vacuum. Losing 60% of that number doesn’t mean losing 60% of your intrinsic worth. The number is a product of the system in which taxes are taken out. Without the taxes the number would be different. My number is surprisingly high but I wouldn’t claim that I was worth that in a vacuum. It is only in this narrow time period of stability, centralized military spending, arbitrary labor restrictions, and spreadsheets that I come into my own.

Viewing your payrate as your value in a vacuum is naive beyond belief. Only a child could believe such an absurdity.

The multi-billionaire, known for funding conservative causes, opened up to the Wall Street Journal about his politics ahead of the release of his book Believe in People: Bottom-Up Solutions for a Top-Down World. After decades of controversial work pushing partisan causes in America, Koch claimed his new aspiration is to “Unite a diversity of people behind a common goal.”

When Koch was asked by the Journal if he would be voting for Joe Biden or President Donald Trump, he called the inquiry a “divisive question” — refusing to answer.

“However I answer, that’s going to upset a bunch of people,” he said. “That’s why there’s a secret ballot.”

In 2020, the Kochs’ political spending still remains partisan: Koch Industries donated $2.8 million to Republican candidates in the campaign cycle, compared to the $221,000 spent on Democratic candidates, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

In his new book, however, the billionaire called his partisan ways a mistake, and in comments to the Journal he minimized his support for the tea party during Barack Obama’s administration.

“Boy, did we screw up!” he reportedly wrote in the book. “What a mess!”

“We did not create the tea party. We shared their concern about unsustainable government spending, and we supported some tea-party groups on that issue,” Koch told the Journal. “But it seems to me the tea party was largely unsuccessful long-term, given that we’re coming off a Republican administration with the largest government spending in history.”
Koch is now attempting to work with Democrats and liberals on social issues including immigration and criminal justice reform. He has partnered with organizations including the LeBron James Family Foundation, the American Civil Liberties Union, and some Democratic state legislative campaigns.

“I congratulate Joe Biden and Kamala Harris on their victory,” Koch told the Journal. “I look forward to finding ways to work with them to break down the barriers holding people back, whether in the economy, criminal justice, immigration, the Covid-19 pandemic, or anywhere else. At the same time, I hope we all use this post-election period to find a better way forward. Because of partisanship, we’ve come to expect too much of politics and too little of ourselves and one another.”

On November 14 2020 08:24 KwarK wrote:

Your rate of pay within a society doesn’t represent your productivity in a vacuum. Losing 60% of that number doesn’t mean losing 60% of your intrinsic worth. The number is a product of the system in which taxes are taken out. Without the taxes the number would be different. My number is surprisingly high but I wouldn’t claim that I was worth that in a vacuum. It is only in this narrow time period of stability, centralized military spending, arbitrary labor restrictions, and spreadsheets that I come into my own.

Viewing your payrate as your value in a vacuum is naive beyond belief. Only a child could believe such an absurdity. The government isn’t taking 60% of the mushrooms I forage or the firewood I collect, it’s taking 60% of a number of imaginary paper that is completely divorced from any rational measure of labour or productivity.

On November 14 2020 08:31 WombaT wrote:

Kwark while I find you a valuable contributor to society and my general browsing existence I do agree with your assessment you aren’t worth what you’re remunerated with. Coincidentally I feel somewhat undervalued in that metric so what you say we split the difference?