EPTThere is absolutely nothing anticapitalist about private healthcare companies creating and perpetuating a system to maximize the cost to the taxpaying public for the benefit of their shareholders. The idea that a system can't be capitalist because all the expense is borne by the taxpayer is absurd. The NHS is socialist not because it is single payer but because it is state owned. Private companies billing the government is peak capitalism.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5711
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
KwarK
United States44124 Posts
There is absolutely nothing anticapitalist about private healthcare companies creating and perpetuating a system to maximize the cost to the taxpaying public for the benefit of their shareholders. The idea that a system can't be capitalist because all the expense is borne by the taxpayer is absurd. The NHS is socialist not because it is single payer but because it is state owned. Private companies billing the government is peak capitalism. | ||
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dyhb
United States433 Posts
On May 03 2026 03:12 oBlade wrote: It kind of gives away the game by not correcting Manit0u on "free healthcare, state-owned pension fund, free education," but correcting you on free public school.DPB passing samples at the supermarket: "Would you like to try a free ice cream?" "Funding for ice cream comes from the cash flow from revenues taken from paying customers at this store. Don't use 'free' if 'free' is incorrect." You're an adult dude. Give Manit0u your "actually" for thinking healthcare and education can be free first. As though he meant they fell out of the healthcare and education tree. (He didn't mean that. Nobody does.) | ||
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micronesia
United States24779 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14147 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46112 Posts
Guess how they were able to solve their measles outbreak! No, really... Guess how they were able to do it!!! No. Seriously. Take. A. Wild. Fucking. Guess. A few months ago, a measles outbreak seemed poised to overwhelm the northern region of South Carolina. More than 100 infections were being reported every week, with the total eventually surpassing that of last year’s record-setting outbreak in Texas. However, after six months and nearly 1,000 cases, the outbreak took a dramatic turn in the right direction. https://abcnews.com/Health/after-1000-cases-south-carolina-officials-beat-back/story?id=132414412 Over the weekend, the South Carolina Department of Public Health said no new cases had been confirmed for 42 days, leading to an announcement on Monday that the outbreak is officially over. Public health experts told ABC News that the combination of a strong vaccination push, people following isolation and quarantine orders and an awareness campaign helped beat back the disease. "Measles vaccinations [were] the most effective single containment tool," Dr. James Harber, an internal medicine physician with Spartanburg Regional Healthcare System, told ABC News. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17774 Posts
On May 03 2026 03:37 KwarK wrote: Capitalism/socialism is about who owns the means of production, who profits, not who pays. There is absolutely nothing anticapitalist about private healthcare companies creating and perpetuating a system to maximize the cost to the taxpaying public for the benefit of their shareholders. The idea that a system can't be capitalist because all the expense is borne by the taxpayer is absurd. The NHS is socialist not because it is single payer but because it is state owned. Private companies billing the government is peak capitalism. I should probably clarify that I didn't mean socialist/capitalist in this context as a social paradigm but rather the general focus of the government. In Eruope a lot of government spending is going to the social programs whereas in the US those are typically much less prevalent and kicked down to local level as opposed to federal if they're present at all. Even then if there are some social programs they're typically private stuff, not state-owned and they're being subsidized from taxes. This wouldn't be as bad if not for the fact that a lot of those "private" companies are actually parts of big corps who do lobbying in the government to maximize their own profits, not social benefit. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9060 Posts
On May 03 2026 09:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: With measles outbreaks spreading across multiple states, primarily due to Republican anti-vaxxer propaganda, South Carolina has finally beaten their particular epidemic! Guess how they were able to solve their measles outbreak! No, really... Guess how they were able to do it!!! No. Seriously. Take. A. Wild. Fucking. Guess. https://abcnews.com/Health/after-1000-cases-south-carolina-officials-beat-back/story?id=132414412 Did they drink bleach? That's my guess from not reading your post at all. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46112 Posts
On May 03 2026 22:15 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Did they drink bleach? That's my guess from not reading your post at all. Nah, they bought Trump memorabilia and stared into the sun until the spread was under control! But in all seriousness: they had dropped below herd immunity, then they listened to medical professionals and significantly increased the number of MMR vaccinations (while isolating those who were sick). Very simple and straightforward: "In Spartanburg County -- the epicenter of the outbreak in northwestern South Carolina -- 88.9% of students had the required immunizations needed to attend school, among the lowest in the state, according to state health department data. This is lower than the 95% threshold needed to achieve herd immunity. In the wider Upstate region of South Carolina, some pockets have much lower vaccination rates. State data shows that, for the 2025-2026 school year, one elementary and middle school only had 17% of students with the required immunizations. Of the 997 cases during the outbreak, 932 were among unvaccinated individuals who were mostly under the age of 17, state data shows. Experts told ABC News that a vaccination campaign helped play a big role in reigning in cases. "We believe vaccination is one of the primary reasons this outbreak came to an end," Dr. Brannon Traxler, deputy director of health promotion and services and chief medical officer at the state health department, told ABC News. "Thousands of people got vaccinated. An additional 3,788 doses of MMR were administered in Spartanburg County during the six months of the outbreak compared to the previous year." Traxler said that 15,000 additional doses were administered in the Upstate counties over this period competed to the year prior." | ||
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EnDeR_
Spain2915 Posts
We are in the shit then. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46112 Posts
On May 03 2026 23:20 EnDeR_ wrote: So you're saying that people need to personally face the obvious consequences of their actions to change their mind? We are in the shit then. Unfortunately, a lot of the cases were unvaccinated children, which means their negligent parents contributed to them becoming sick. Those parents should definitely face some consequences, but I'm not sure if that'll happen. (In reference to: "Of the 997 cases during the outbreak, 932 were among unvaccinated individuals who were mostly under the age of 17, state data shows.") | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2824 Posts
On May 03 2026 23:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Unfortunately, a lot of the cases were unvaccinated children, which means their negligent parents contributed to them becoming sick. Those parents should definitely face some consequences, but I'm not sure if that'll happen. (In reference to: "Of the 997 cases during the outbreak, 932 were among unvaccinated individuals who were mostly under the age of 17, state data shows.") Not to be like that but for the vast majority of parents (even in the demographic that doesn't vaccinate their kids) your child being severly sick is a consequence. Often it feels worse than you being sick. | ||
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KwarK
United States44124 Posts
On May 04 2026 01:23 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Not to be like that but for the vast majority of parents (even in the demographic that doesn't vaccinate their kids) your child being severly sick is a consequence. Often it feels worse than you being sick. https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/2025/03/21/texas-parents-of-child-who-died-of-measles-urge-others-not-to-vaccinate/ She said her stance on vaccination has not changed after her daughter’s death. “The measles wasn’t that bad. They got over it pretty quickly,” the mother said of her other four surviving children who were treated with castor oil... The deceased girl’s father insisted that measles helps build up a person’s immune system. “Also the measles are good for the body for the people,” the father said, explaining “You get an infection out.” | ||
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Simberto
Germany11900 Posts
On May 04 2026 01:58 KwarK wrote: https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/2025/03/21/texas-parents-of-child-who-died-of-measles-urge-others-not-to-vaccinate/ Of course they don't change their stance afterwards. They would have to admit that they have killed their child. That is probably not very easy to do. Better to double down, be sure that you were correct, and not be at fault of your childs death. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5830 Posts
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KwarK
United States44124 Posts
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2824 Posts
On May 04 2026 01:58 KwarK wrote: https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/2025/03/21/texas-parents-of-child-who-died-of-measles-urge-others-not-to-vaccinate/ She is still sad that her kid died. It's just the cognitive dissonance going into overdrive. If you change your stance on vaccination at that point you go from a self image of you being a good person and a good parent who protects their children from something unsafe. And change that into being a terrible parent who got their child killed in a completely unnecessary way. That news article doesn't outright say it but if you read between the lines the parents doesn't even seem to think it's the measles that killed the kid and instead blames the hospital. Psychologically you aren't going to turn many anti-vax parents that loses a child (and the ones that do change their minds will probably be broken wrecks). But the ones that has a close call might vaccinate the younger siblings and people around them are also likely to change their stance. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46112 Posts
On May 04 2026 01:23 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: + "She is still sad that her kid died." Not to be like that but for the vast majority of parents (even in the demographic that doesn't vaccinate their kids) your child being severly sick is a consequence. Often it feels worse than you being sick. You're right that feeling sad is an emotional consequence / response when a loved one is ill or dies. Maybe "punishment" is a better term for what I'm asking about? Do you think a parent who refuses to vaccinate their child should be punished for their negligence and willingness to needlessly jeopardize their child's health and possibly life? (This is assuming, of course, that we're setting aside the rare situation where the child can't be vaccinated due to being immunocompromised or some other scenario where the parent is actually behaving in a medically responsible manner. Most unvaccinated children are unvaccinated because their parents are stubbornly and ignorantly jeopardizing their children, even if they don't believe they are.) | ||
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Razyda
1027 Posts
On May 04 2026 01:58 KwarK wrote: https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/2025/03/21/texas-parents-of-child-who-died-of-measles-urge-others-not-to-vaccinate/ I think you by accident omitted this part of article: "The couple, members of a Mennonite community in Gaines County with traditionally low vaccination rates" | ||
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KwarK
United States44124 Posts
On May 04 2026 10:42 Razyda wrote: I think you by accident omitted this part of article: "The couple, members of a Mennonite community in Gaines County with traditionally low vaccination rates" I didn’t quote the whole article deliberately. I omitted almost all of it in my post due to my belief in the ability of people to use a hyperlink when provided. | ||
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dyhb
United States433 Posts
On May 04 2026 10:42 Razyda wrote: It's always been about very inclusive communities, which is sometimes lost in the rush to blame Republicans (which can be criticized independently). Canada didn't have a sudden influx of Republican illegal immigrants in 2025 when Canada's measles cases dwarfed America's. Nor was Canada's healthcare system run by some right-wing prime minister. They just had their own mennonite community hit hard.I think you by accident omitted this part of article: "The couple, members of a Mennonite community in Gaines County with traditionally low vaccination rates" | ||
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