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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2809

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

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If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-30 07:50:23
October 30 2020 07:50 GMT
#56161
On October 30 2020 15:42 Sr18 wrote:
Doesn't high inflation decrease wealth inequality, rather than increase it?


By my understanding, certain types of investment vehicles resist losing value due to inflation.

People who aren't well off enough to have these types of investments have no defense against inflation, and their asset value atrophies as a result.
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
October 30 2020 08:20 GMT
#56162
On October 30 2020 16:50 Dromar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2020 15:42 Sr18 wrote:
Doesn't high inflation decrease wealth inequality, rather than increase it?


By my understanding, certain types of investment vehicles resist losing value due to inflation.

People who aren't well off enough to have these types of investments have no defense against inflation, and their asset value atrophies as a result.


It's worth considering that debt doesn't inflate though, so experiencing inflation would make your money go farther with regards to paying off debt and the like
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12026 Posts
October 30 2020 09:31 GMT
#56163
On October 30 2020 09:59 plasmidghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2020 09:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 30 2020 09:43 plasmidghost wrote:
It's been really interesting to see this election cycle not really having much volatility in terms of projections when compared to the 2016 election and its frequent swings of predicted support. Something also strikes me as odd, which is that the national polls have Biden at around 8-9 points ahead on average, but the swing state polls are all within a couple of points. What would be causing this discrepancy in the values, if anyone knows?


I assume that it's a matter of compounding the slight advantages for Biden across multiple states. The chance of Trump winning nationally shrinks proportionally to the number of swing states that are all leaning towards Biden, as more and more states would need to be incorrectly predicted (i.e., swing to Trump instead of swing to Biden, nearly every time) for Trump to win. Biden just has so many more winning combinations of swing states that are currently leaning in his favor, compared to Trump.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense, thank you!


One must be careful with this kind of analysis, though. It tends to assume that the results in the different states are independent of one another. But they probably are not. An event or a miscalculation which shifts the votes by 1% in one state will likely also shift the votes in other states.

If you flip 20 slightly loaded coins, you expect a lopsided result. Even if you were mistaken about how one of those coins was loaded, you expect the average to fit. But if you flip the same coin 20 times instead, you might have erred in how it was loaded, and that effects all of those 20 rolls.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8201 Posts
October 30 2020 10:07 GMT
#56164
The way I see it, one of the big question is why the polls underestimated Trump in 16 and are those reasons relevant this cycle. If it's because of low voter turnout, he is kind of toast.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46511 Posts
October 30 2020 10:53 GMT
#56165
On October 30 2020 19:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:
The way I see it, one of the big question is why the polls underestimated Trump in 16 and are those reasons relevant this cycle. If it's because of low voter turnout, he is kind of toast.


The polls were mostly spot on from a popular vote perspective, but certainly the electoral votes ultimately leaned away from what was originally predicted. I Googled your question and found this interesting interview: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/04/qa-political-polls-and-the-2016-election/

Here's a relevant excerpt:

The report notes that, while the national polls generally came pretty close to the actual nationwide popular vote (which Clinton won by 2.1 percentage points over Trump), the performance of polls at the state level – where presidential elections actually are decided – was a lot spottier. What reasons did you find for that?

We found evidence for multiple potential causes. One factor that I think affected everybody who was polling in the battleground states, is the legitimate late change in voter preference in the last week before Election Day. The data on this has its limitations, but the best source is the National Election Pool’s exit poll, which has a question about when voters made up their minds about who to vote for in the presidential race. That showed several roughly 20-point swings in favor of Trump among voters making their mind up in the final week. You didn’t really see that nationally, but in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and even Florida, you saw what looks like dramatic movement.

That’s sort of a good news/bad news finding for pollsters. The good news is, if you interviewed people at a certain point in time and they changed their mind several days later, the poll wouldn’t have detected that. That’s not a flaw in the poll, other than perhaps with the field period in which the pollster decided to do the data collection. But there’s fundamentally nothing that was necessarily off if what was generating most of the error was just honest-to-goodness changes of opinion.

What else did you find at the state level?

Another interesting finding had to do with poll respondents’ level of education. A number of studies have shown that in general, people with higher levels of formal education are more likely to take surveys – it’s a very robust finding. Places like Pew Research Center and others have known that for years, and we address that with our statistical weighting – that is, we ask people what their education level is and align our survey data so that it matches the U.S. population on education. And I think a lot of us assumed that was common practice in the industry – that roughly speaking, everybody was doing it. And that’s not what we found. At the state level, more often than not, the polls were not being adjusted for education.

Now in some elections, such as in 2012, that wouldn’t matter, because the very low educated and the very highly educated voted roughly the same way. But 2016 was drastically different – you had a quite strong linear relationship between education and presidential vote. And that meant that if you had too many college graduates in your poll, which virtually all of us do, and you didn’t weight appropriately, you were almost certainly going to overestimate support for Clinton.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
October 30 2020 10:57 GMT
#56166
Im sure at least some of it was the Shy-Trump-Voter aspect of the last election.

I'm not sure thats going to play as strongly this year given we've had four years of Trump offers ample opportunities to alienate voters, but given the nature of Shy-Trump-Voters being, well Shy about supporting Trump, obviously theres a fair chance I'm talking out of my ass about that.

Im still relatively confident he's going to lose though, however little faith I have in America I have to believe that people dealing with 4 years of constant Trump dumbfuckery will AT LEAST be tired of hearing about him all of the damn time. I have to believe.

Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24385 Posts
October 30 2020 11:06 GMT
#56167
On October 30 2020 19:57 Zambrah wrote:
Im sure at least some of it was the Shy-Trump-Voter aspect of the last election.

I'm not sure thats going to play as strongly this year given we've had four years of Trump offers ample opportunities to alienate voters, but given the nature of Shy-Trump-Voters being, well Shy about supporting Trump, obviously theres a fair chance I'm talking out of my ass about that.

Im still relatively confident he's going to lose though, however little faith I have in America I have to believe that people dealing with 4 years of constant Trump dumbfuckery will AT LEAST be tired of hearing about him all of the damn time. I have to believe.


It's hard to imagine what the conversation and media will even be like without Trump as president or Republicans stopping Democrats in the senate at this point.

Part of me thinks Trump will still be a primary topic all the way through Biden's potential presidency.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-30 11:27:03
October 30 2020 11:23 GMT
#56168
I dunno, there are plenty of shitbag republicans and they're going to need to hype up the next would-be-Republican president, so I expect to see a veritable rogue's gallery of villainous-type Republicans to get media dominance, I imagine Trump will stop being the main media focus within a year of the election assuming he loses.

They're really going to need to pin themselves a villain though if they want to get Kamala Harris elected in 2024, so I imagine thats where they'll go with it.

EDIT: I had a wretched doom-inspiring thought, what if they actually try and go for positive messaging and it's a lot of Kamala Harris related media... god that nauseates me. More vapid Kamala Harris bullshit might be worse to me than seeing a focus on Ted Cruz and his ilk.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-30 11:29:15
October 30 2020 11:29 GMT
#56169
Expect to see more of Cotton and Crenshaw, but I don't find either as threatening as some do.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
October 30 2020 13:05 GMT
#56170
On October 30 2020 20:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2020 19:57 Zambrah wrote:
Im sure at least some of it was the Shy-Trump-Voter aspect of the last election.

I'm not sure thats going to play as strongly this year given we've had four years of Trump offers ample opportunities to alienate voters, but given the nature of Shy-Trump-Voters being, well Shy about supporting Trump, obviously theres a fair chance I'm talking out of my ass about that.

Im still relatively confident he's going to lose though, however little faith I have in America I have to believe that people dealing with 4 years of constant Trump dumbfuckery will AT LEAST be tired of hearing about him all of the damn time. I have to believe.


It's hard to imagine what the conversation and media will even be like without Trump as president or Republicans stopping Democrats in the senate at this point.

Part of me thinks Trump will still be a primary topic all the way through Biden's potential presidency.


He will be. It'll be sad if Biden wins and all of a sudden democrats "don't have enough votes" to enact any change, even if they have the house/senate/presidency.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22661 Posts
October 30 2020 13:32 GMT
#56171
On October 30 2020 20:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2020 19:57 Zambrah wrote:
Im sure at least some of it was the Shy-Trump-Voter aspect of the last election.

I'm not sure thats going to play as strongly this year given we've had four years of Trump offers ample opportunities to alienate voters, but given the nature of Shy-Trump-Voters being, well Shy about supporting Trump, obviously theres a fair chance I'm talking out of my ass about that.

Im still relatively confident he's going to lose though, however little faith I have in America I have to believe that people dealing with 4 years of constant Trump dumbfuckery will AT LEAST be tired of hearing about him all of the damn time. I have to believe.


It's hard to imagine what the conversation and media will even be like without Trump as president or Republicans stopping Democrats in the senate at this point.

Part of me thinks Trump will still be a primary topic all the way through Biden's potential presidency.
If Trump is going to be mentioned it will because he did something horribly stupid (and this reporting will probably grow less over time as people care less when he is no longer President), lawsuits against Trump and as an answer when Republicans go "This thing is bad" to say "Trump caused that, we are working on fixing all his shit".
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 30 2020 13:36 GMT
#56172
--- Nuked ---
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
October 30 2020 13:41 GMT
#56173
On October 30 2020 20:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2020 19:57 Zambrah wrote:
Im sure at least some of it was the Shy-Trump-Voter aspect of the last election.

I'm not sure thats going to play as strongly this year given we've had four years of Trump offers ample opportunities to alienate voters, but given the nature of Shy-Trump-Voters being, well Shy about supporting Trump, obviously theres a fair chance I'm talking out of my ass about that.

Im still relatively confident he's going to lose though, however little faith I have in America I have to believe that people dealing with 4 years of constant Trump dumbfuckery will AT LEAST be tired of hearing about him all of the damn time. I have to believe.


It's hard to imagine what the conversation and media will even be like without Trump as president or Republicans stopping Democrats in the senate at this point.

Part of me thinks Trump will still be a primary topic all the way through Biden's potential presidency.


Well, do you think he's going to quietly fade away after losing the Presidency or parade around talking about how he'd be doing so much better if he were President on Fox?

Trump will make himself a primary topic.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 30 2020 13:49 GMT
#56174
--- Nuked ---
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19393 Posts
October 30 2020 13:50 GMT
#56175
For those of you democrats hoping for a massive blue wave election and 4 years of have your cake and eat it too, what are you hoping to get out of the next term? What would make you say "Solid 4 years Biden. Well done!"? It's the answer to this question that honestly scares me the most as a fiscal conservative.

For me:
All I care about is economic stability, covid recovery, and staying out of international conflicts for the next four years. I'm worried that a blue wave will just like "hey we got this opportunity, let's push as many left agendas as possible." I get that it's an opportunity to accomplish an agenda, but I think regardless of party, it's a spit in the face to pass a bunch of things that don't have partisan support. I have huge problems with republicans trying to push agendas that sub 50% of America might support too.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
October 30 2020 13:51 GMT
#56176
One thing that is haunting me: why are people ignoring Trafalgar, saying everyone else is right, when they are the ones who were correct about 2016, whereas others were wrong? It feels like they have credibility, but everyone is saying they do not.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-30 13:54:20
October 30 2020 13:53 GMT
#56177
On October 30 2020 22:50 BisuDagger wrote:
For those of you democrats hoping for a massive blue wave election and 4 years of have your cake and eat it too, what are you hoping to get out of the next term? What would make you say "Solid 4 years Biden. Well done!"? It's the answer to this question that honestly scares me the most as a fiscal conservative.

For me:
All I care about is economic stability, covid recovery, and staying out of international conflicts for the next four years. I'm worried that a blue wave will just like "hey we got this opportunity, let's push as many left agendas as possible." I get that it's an opportunity to accomplish an agenda, but I think regardless of party, it's a spit in the face to pass a bunch of things that don't have partisan support. I have huge problems with republicans trying to push agendas that sub 50% of America might support too.


Mask mandate, UK-style salary-compensation for displaced workers, public option, free healthcare for everyone making ____ or less. Rejoin Paris accords, enormous sanctions against Russia, firm navy middle finger to China. Also national ban on qualified immunity for cops.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 30 2020 13:58 GMT
#56178
--- Nuked ---
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 30 2020 14:01 GMT
#56179
On October 30 2020 22:51 Mohdoo wrote:
One thing that is haunting me: why are people ignoring Trafalgar, saying everyone else is right, when they are the ones who were correct about 2016, whereas others were wrong? It feels like they have credibility, but everyone is saying they do not.

Because they weren't right in 2016. Same for Rasmussen. They called Trump winning, but they called Trump winning by leading in the popular vote. They were both actually off by more than other polls on average: their error was just in the correct direction so they didn't get called out as much.

DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46511 Posts
October 30 2020 14:03 GMT
#56180
Five days ago (as per 538), the Democrats had an 87% chance of winning the presidency, 74% chance of winning control of the Senate, and 96% chance of keeping control of the House.
Today, the Democrats have an 89% chance of winning the presidency, 77% chance of winning control of the Senate, and 98% chance of keeping control of the House.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

On October 30 2020 22:50 BisuDagger wrote:
For those of you democrats hoping for a massive blue wave election and 4 years of have your cake and eat it too, what are you hoping to get out of the next term? What would make you say "Solid 4 years Biden. Well done!"? It's the answer to this question that honestly scares me the most as a fiscal conservative.

For me:
All I care about is economic stability, covid recovery, and staying out of international conflicts for the next four years. I'm worried that a blue wave will just like "hey we got this opportunity, let's push as many left agendas as possible." I get that it's an opportunity to accomplish an agenda, but I think regardless of party, it's a spit in the face to pass a bunch of things that don't have partisan support. I have huge problems with republicans trying to push agendas that sub 50% of America might support too.


The vast majority of big reforms on the left already do have bipartisan support. Overhauling healthcare, significantly addressing climate change, etc. The Republican leadership is the group that's not on board with these things, whereas plenty of Republican constituents actually are.

Also, I would love as many progressive reforms as possible to be pushed through, because we could actually start improving our country, with Republican leaders out of the way. The Republicans do everything they can to push their partisan agenda - and they're very effective - so the least the Democrats can do is push their own partisan agenda... especially if it's not actually partisan, and *especially* if the agenda actually includes helping Americans/ America/ the world. I think it's perfectly justified.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
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