EPTThe filibuster should be dead though, one of Biden first things he said he was going to do is fix Republicans huge tax cuts they gave the rich. His whole platform is the basically undo all that Republicans passed in these 4 years.
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Shingi11
290 Posts
The filibuster should be dead though, one of Biden first things he said he was going to do is fix Republicans huge tax cuts they gave the rich. His whole platform is the basically undo all that Republicans passed in these 4 years. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23933 Posts
On October 30 2020 07:18 Shingi11 wrote: We are not going to get a covid bill tell January. Mcturtle could care less about spending political capital when Republicans lost and Trump is going to be spending the couple months trying to find some way to overturn the electioN. The filibuster should be dead though, one of Biden first things he said he was going to do is fix Republicans huge tax cuts they gave the rich. His whole platform is the basically undo all that Republicans passed in these 4 years. Democrats have been putting out the message that people have to sustain the demand for the filibuster to get scrapped for the 6 months of Biden's commission so that it's a choice between removing the filibuster or society revolting. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
But since it’s still there, Democrats can filibuster covid relief as long as they want. They have enough seats. God forgive giving Republicans a political victory in the midst of a pandemic, relief bills be damned. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23933 Posts
On October 30 2020 07:43 Nevuk wrote: I don't think McConnell could even scrap the filibuster if he wanted to. Isn't that only at the start of term? ...well if that were true (I honestly don't know?) wouldn't Biden's 6 month commission mean he's not scrapping it? | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On October 30 2020 07:43 Nevuk wrote: I don't think McConnell could even scrap the filibuster if he wanted to. Isn't that only at the start of term? Bills have been sent from the house to the senate more than once and haven't been voted on. That's why democrats are filibustering. If he hypothetically removed the filibuster to pass his version of the relief bill that democrats don't agree with why would it pass the house? | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On October 30 2020 07:48 GreenHorizons wrote: ...well if that were true (I honestly don't know?) wouldn't Biden's 6 month commission mean he's not scrapping it? It's not true. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On October 30 2020 07:48 GreenHorizons wrote: ...well if that were true (I honestly don't know?) wouldn't Biden's 6 month commission mean he's not scrapping it? The 6 month commission was on the SC I thought. Which is fine. The courts move super slow and it's an issue that takes a lot of thought. Reading up on it, it depends on how they abolish it. Some are only at the beginning, some are anytime. Most of the viable options are anytime and absurd. There are some things only at beginning of term I got it confused with. No reasonable person is going to leave the filibuster in place or at, the least, not modify it heavily (ie expand the definition of reconciliation massively or something). The only way it remains as is if it's a 51-49 Senate with both Sinema and Manchin not wanting it gone. This brookings article is a good write up https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/what-is-the-senate-filibuster-and-what-would-it-take-to-eliminate-it/ Some notes from it, it seems extremely likely if there's a dem trifecta. Skeptical senators have started coming around, and Obama has been calling to eliminate it. At the funeral of civil rights leader Representative John Lewis (D-Ga.), former President Barack Obama argued that if Republicans obstructed voting rights legislation in the next Congress, Democrats should eliminate the filibuster to pass it. For his part, Biden told reporters in July Biden has said he backs eliminating it depending on how obstreperous they are. depend[ing] on how obstreperous [Republicans] become … I think you’re going to just have to take a look” at abolishing the procedure. There's also some mini nukes available, or changing the rules to require physical speaky filibusters again, which is what some senate dems are proposing. Basically 52 or higher dems and I'm positive we'll see change to it, especially if McConnell continues filibustering everything. The democrats are never going to have 60 votes again so it seems pointless to leave it there, especially when there are two states that should have been added decades ago anyways (one deep blue and one on the lighter side of blue, DC and PR. PR would have been a swingy state before Trump's paper towel misadventures). On October 30 2020 07:37 Danglars wrote: McConnell could get a vote in any number of the covid relief bills if he scrapped the filibuster. But since it’s still there, Democrats can filibuster covid relief as long as they want. They have enough seats. God forgive giving Republicans a political victory in the midst of a pandemic, relief bills be damned. McConnell has literally refused all compromises. The dems wanted 3 trillion, went down to 2 trillion but he didn't budge up at all from his proposal of 1 trillion. His posturing is fooling no one other than partisans. He's also refused to add any sort of oversight, in spite of Trump and Mnunchin basically burning hundreds of billions in private as far as we know. Even Trump asked him to budge on accepting the democrats plan and he's still refused to move. McConnell would rather spite the democrats than give Trump a 5-6% better chance of winning. It's nothing to do with democrat obstruction in the senate: McConnell's bill is horrible for everyone but corporations and would die in the house. So he has 0 motive to kill the legislative filibuster. He only has himself to blame, though. By nuking it for gorsuch and blocking at an unprecedented level from 2010-2016 it was inevitable (which is what McCain said at the time of killing it for Gorsuch). | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23933 Posts
On October 30 2020 08:31 mierin wrote: The same could be said for Pelosi. Nobody in government wants to help the average person. Meh, I'm sure many of them want to, at least when they first get there. It's just none of them are willing to do much more than hope things get better despite their collective ineptitude, impotence, and inaction. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On October 30 2020 07:37 Danglars wrote: McConnell could get a vote in any number of the covid relief bills if he scrapped the filibuster. But since it’s still there, Democrats can filibuster covid relief as long as they want. They have enough seats. God forgive giving Republicans a political victory in the midst of a pandemic, relief bills be damned. What do you mean ? Trump ended covid, he said so. So there's no need for a socialist relief bill. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 30 2020 07:43 Nevuk wrote: I don't think McConnell could even scrap the filibuster if he wanted to. Isn't that only at the start of term? Nah, he could. Rules of the Senate are simple majority vote. Recall that Harry Reid scrapped the ordinary judicial filibuster November 2013 well into session, and in response to things occurring earlier in that same session. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19346 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 30 2020 08:28 Nevuk wrote: McConnell has literally refused all compromises. The dems wanted 3 trillion, went down to 2 trillion but he didn't budge up at all from his proposal of 1 trillion. His posturing is fooling no one other than partisans. He's also refused to add any sort of oversight, in spite of Trump and Mnunchin basically burning hundreds of billions in private as far as we know. Even Trump asked him to budge on accepting the democrats plan and he's still refused to move. McConnell would rather spite the democrats than give Trump a 5-6% better chance of winning. It's nothing to do with democrat obstruction in the senate: McConnell's bill is horrible for everyone but corporations and would die in the house. So he has 0 motive to kill the legislative filibuster. He only has himself to blame, though. By nuking it for gorsuch and blocking at an unprecedented level from 2010-2016 it was inevitable (which is what McCain said at the time of killing it for Gorsuch). He went up from 500 billion. He had one at 1 trillion dollars. Small measures like 300 billion also went the same way. Pelosi demands state aid, and by golly she won't compromise on something that doesn't include that. So it's Pelosi's minimum or no coronavirus aid. And Senate Democrats won't even allow a vote (something, hilariously, some people in this forum tried to convince me was important --- actually holding a vote on the matter). She has the House and her caucus united enough to force any coronavirus bill to include her priorities, so she definitely has the power to stop any coronavirus bill that falls short. It's a little sad, but whatever. Democrats play tough politics, and it's about time Republicans learned a little more about their committment. She could have the 500 bil - 1 trillion that they agree on right now, but hold out for longer because politics uber alles. Senate Democrats would rather spite McConnell and Trump rather than pass an agreeable covid bill with relief spending. Pelosi is united with them in this effort. Oh well. Keep trying to demonize the bill on the table. As you put it, you're only fooling partisans. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23933 Posts
The 6 month commission was on the SC I thought. Which is fine. The courts move super slow and it's an issue that takes a lot of thought. Indeed. I expect the filibuster to be wrapped up in that shortly after the election. Be nice if you guys are right though that the filibuster can't wait and get's pushed before that. Then if there's 51 Democrats willing to pack the court, they don't have to wait 6 months for Biden's commission (which almost certainly will recommend against it imo). I expect Biden to take a "let's lower the temperature (but not ecologically, Frack baby Frack!), and let the American people decide in 2024 where we go from here" kind of approach to his presidency. Little chance the urgency and transformative energy persists from Democrats under Biden imo. Democrats are going to double down on the electoral effectiveness of moderate politics and be seeking the endorsement of the Lincoln Projects next incarnation come 2024. There isn't really a viable 'progressive' alternative on the slate for 2024 within the Democratic party so their supporters will back the moderate that wins the nomination against the Ted Cruz/Trump hybrid that wins the Republican nomination. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10397 Posts
On October 30 2020 08:46 ShoCkeyy wrote: Polling in GA and FL apparently have them turning blue. While I don't trust polling, it seems likely it can happen. GA special elections are also heavily favoring Democrats apparently if you continue scrolling through the Monmouth twitter. Apparently Monmouth has one of the best polling based on Nate Silver from 538. https://twitter.com/MonmouthPoll/status/1321859464245465088 https://twitter.com/MonmouthPoll/status/1321497081752784897 I've been seeing similar trends on RCP as well, with Florida showing that Biden has been hitting that 50% mark more and more often. Also, looks like the blue wall is flipping back to blue this time around, all three of the major states in WI, MI, PA are all hitting 50% for Biden consistently. Obviously, these are only 2 party polls and doesn't include JoJo and others, but without those northern states, Trump doesn't have a path to victory. Still, hoping for a more solid win for Biden in the low-mid 300s rather than a tight race where he wins with 290. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On October 30 2020 08:48 Danglars wrote: He went up from 500 billion. He had one at 1 trillion dollars. Small measures like 300 billion also went the same way. Pelosi demands state aid, and by golly she won't compromise on something that doesn't include that. So it's Pelosi's minimum or no coronavirus aid. And Senate Democrats won't even allow a vote (something, hilariously, some people in this forum tried to convince me was important --- actually holding a vote on the matter). She has the House and her caucus united enough to force any coronavirus bill to include her priorities, so she definitely has the power to stop any coronavirus bill that falls short. It's a little sad, but whatever. Democrats play tough politics, and it's about time Republicans learned a little more about their committment. She could have the 500 bil - 1 trillion that they agree on right now, but hold out for longer because politics uber alles. Senate Democrats would rather spite McConnell and Trump rather than pass an agreeable covid bill with relief spending. Pelosi is united with them in this effort. Oh well. Keep trying to demonize the bill on the table. As you put it, you're only fooling partisans. That was a couple weeks ago, at which point the dems stopped trying to negotiate because well... if Trump and McConnell don't agree, EVERY bill is a nonstarter. edit: I left out a few details. It went 650 billion (with 350 billion paid for) to 500 billion with 0 paid for. So an increase rather than a decrease. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14115 Posts
I'm 100% going to disconnect and go full into the forest for a few days. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 30 2020 09:03 Nevuk wrote: That was a couple weeks ago, at which point the dems stopped trying to negotiate because well... if Trump and McConnell don't agree, EVERY bill is a nonstarter. edit: I left out a few details. It went 650 billion (with 350 billion paid for) to 500 billion with 0 paid for. So an increase rather than a decrease. You’re missing a 300 billion dollar bill there. I get that Senate Democrats have been filibustering the fuck out of many relief packages, so it can get confusing after a while. If you’re going “suggestion” you have to include McConnells 1 trillion dollar suggestion from the summer, after the first round of stimulus and loans passed. Set aside the aid for states, marijuana dispensaries, small business, ... , can’t everybody just vote on the basics like unemployment relief? NOPE because Democrats know how to run a machine, and they have tons of people to willingly swallow their press releases, uncritically. | ||
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