EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2190
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15398 Posts
On March 17 2020 11:03 farvacola wrote: They've expedited unemployment benefits and relaxed eligibility for everyone put out of work, but there's a palpable sense of unrest among the mostly blue collar population of my city and its tough to say how folks will feel after 2 or 3 weeks of no work. If access to benefits is there, I'd guess things will reach a take-out only equilibrium, but if not, the chance of civil unrest is not that remote imo. lol, it would be awesome if this ended up only being 2-3 weeks. I sure do wish I shared that optimism. To me, I see these benefits as so amazingly essential that I'm not worried about it. Either widespread looting and anarchy, or extreme government assistance. They won't be able to skimp. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22722 Posts
On March 17 2020 11:00 Mohdoo wrote: What will that mean for you guys? We are "Silicon Forest" and this is gonna be pretty devastating. The way things are going right now, we are in this weird winding down where we keep going thinner and thinner, but it is clearly headed towards zero. As critical technicians end up returning from travel or contact with people or whatever, big portions of these skeleton crews are removed from the factory. There is very, very, very clearly a need for some huge stimulus thing. Factories are going to actually shut down and it feels like people don't understand the implications. Everyone continues to frame this as if it is probably really abnormal, but not actually a big deal. It's strange. It's like people aren't capable of grasping what is happening because it is so unique. Part of the problem is China's recovery and South Korea's keeping it under control. Another aspect is the rapid turnover in the news cycles. People think we're just going to bounce back and it'll pass like everything else. | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
On March 17 2020 11:07 Mohdoo wrote: lol, it would be awesome if this ended up only being 2-3 weeks. I sure do wish I shared that optimism. To me, I see these benefits as so amazingly essential that I'm not worried about it. Either widespread looting and anarchy, or extreme government assistance. They won't be able to skimp. Oh make no mistake, this ain't a 2-3 week thing, its a 12-15 week thing at very least. But at 2-3 weeks in the reality starts to set and I think that'll be when folks think hard about whether they think they'll make it through the many weeks to come. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Late July sounds like the best, optimistic case scenario for when it is over. Goldman Sachs said in an investor meeting they expect the market to drop by 40% (so about 20% more), but to start to recover by the end of the year. Basically the market fundamentals are a lot better than they were in 2008. That really only is going to mean anything for a white collar or higher worker though. Blue collar workers can't work from home and will need immediate economic help to not suffer needlessly. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 17 2020 11:00 Mohdoo wrote: What will that mean for you guys? We are "Silicon Forest" and this is gonna be pretty devastating. The way things are going right now, we are in this weird winding down where we keep going thinner and thinner, but it is clearly headed towards zero. As critical technicians end up returning from travel or contact with people or whatever, big portions of these skeleton crews are removed from the factory. There is very, very, very clearly a need for some huge stimulus thing. Factories are going to actually shut down and it feels like people don't understand the implications. Everyone continues to frame this as if it is probably really abnormal, but not actually a big deal. It's strange. It's like people aren't capable of grasping what is happening because it is so unique. A lot of people simply aren't capable of contemplating a full-on disaster as a viable possibility. It kind of reminds me of how for many years folks were saying that "when there's another recession, it's going to be mild" without any real fundamental justification for why it'd be so. I've been following this coronavirus matter since January. Only by the end of February did it become clear to me that this is a crisis the likes of which we've never seen before. The other troubling thing is that in times like this, it's hard to pay too much attention to the economy when the other reality is that my older relatives have a high chance of death, and an even higher chance of being permanently compromised by infection. Not all of them are in good health... | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22722 Posts
On March 17 2020 11:29 LegalLord wrote: A lot of people simply aren't capable of contemplating a full-on disaster as a viable possibility. It kind of reminds me of how for many years folks were saying that "when there's another recession, it's going to be mild" without any real fundamental justification for why it'd be so. I've been following this coronavirus matter since January. Only by the end of February did it become clear to me that this is a crisis the likes of which we've never seen before. The other troubling thing is that in times like this, it's hard to pay too much attention to the economy when the other reality is that my older relatives have a high chance of death, and an even higher chance of being permanently compromised by infection. Not all of them are in good health... This is like a microcosm of the existential threat of climate change on an accelerated time scale imo. This is a mild (all things considered) virus, if we imagine climate change as a similar challenge on a longer scale and with greater consequences, the inaction and shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic we see from Congress and US businesses becomes all that more alarming. Basically, if 3 months from now people think the feds and states botched the handling of the Coronavirus, wait until we start to really experience and appreciate as a nation the consequences of decades of bipartisan ineptitude, denial, and profiteering surrounding climate change. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On March 17 2020 11:35 GreenHorizons wrote: This is like a microcosm of the existential threat of climate change on an accelerated time scale imo. This is a mild (all things considered) virus, if we imagine climate change as a similar challenge on a longer scale and with greater consequences, the inaction and shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic we see from Congress and US businesses becomes all that more alarming. Basically, if 3 months from now people think the feds and states botched the handling of the Coronavirus, wait until we start to really experience and appreciate as a nation the consequences of decades of bipartisan ineptitude, denial, and profiteering surrounding climate change. I thought it was particularly on point for Bernie to make that comparison in last night's debate as well. The small silver lining of the pandemic is that it's making Bernie's points for him, on two fronts. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 17 2020 11:35 GreenHorizons wrote: This is like a microcosm of the existential threat of climate change on an accelerated time scale imo. This is a mild (all things considered) virus, if we imagine climate change as a similar challenge on a longer scale and with greater consequences, the inaction and shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic we see from Congress and US businesses becomes all that more alarming. Basically, if 3 months from now people think the feds and states botched the handling of the Coronavirus, wait until we start to really experience and appreciate as a nation the consequences of decades of bipartisan ineptitude, denial, and profiteering surrounding climate change. On the morbid side... I think we're very rapidly getting exactly the kind of reduction in emissions we need to prevent the worst of climate change. If we keep this up for the next 30 years or so, I'm sure we'd be in good shape. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22722 Posts
On March 17 2020 11:59 LegalLord wrote: On the morbid side... I think we're very rapidly getting exactly the kind of reduction in emissions we need to prevent the worst of climate change. If we keep this up for the next 30 years or so, I'm sure we'd be in good shape. We've been forced to reorganize our society, the problem as I see it is that people are desperate to use that opportunity to "go back to normal" which is essentially a path to certain (and as you noted, unimaginable for many) catastrophe. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 17 2020 12:13 JimmiC wrote: yes a bunch less people means a bunch less emissions, but that is just in the short term, same with a travel ban, factories closing and so on. The numbers I have to work towards are all per capital. I'm not talking about the death as a result of this; that is an effect that is pretty small compared to the way in which society has all but shut down in response to the virus. No one is traveling, planes are flying much less often, and consumption has of course plummeted as a result of everything that's happened. And as a result, I'm sure we're far, far closer to the emissions targets that the world has considered "aspirational" than any non-crisis-time measures have done. If we're looking for a long-term bright side, I could see two things that could feasibly result in long-term positive change that would be encouraged by this crisis: 1. Retirement of coal. It's not profitable, and with natural gas being ridiculously cheap right now it's only going to get less profitable. Whatever coal shuts down as a result of this crisis won't be coming back. Sadly China alone is probably going to offset this trend by propping up enough coal to reverse all of the environmental gain here. 2. Insourcing. Already a trend, but watch how badly the supply chains are being disrupted by China shutting down. Much easier to prevent that by building closer to home. Reducing freight will definitely cut a big chunk out of emissions. I remember a time when flying wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now, when it was expensive enough to make people not do cross-country flights on a whim. I don't think it altogether a bad thing if we go back to that. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15398 Posts
On March 17 2020 12:37 Nevuk wrote: I read that as a less morbid "fewer people are commuting to work" take initially. It does make me wonder just how much of our carbon footprint could be saved if we let people WFH who actually don't need to be in the office. One of the many "hey wait a sec" moments I hope occurs from this. So many engineers have almost zero reason to be at work other than special cases. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 17 2020 12:40 Mohdoo wrote: One of the many "hey wait a sec" moments I hope occurs from this. So many engineers have almost zero reason to be at work other than special cases. I'm actually very impressed how productive a mostly company-wide WFH is, despite a culture dominated by "face-to-face interaction is paramount" folks. Setting up to be distributed is a great development, overall, and more companies should do it. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22722 Posts
On March 17 2020 12:54 LegalLord wrote: I'm actually very impressed how productive a mostly company-wide WFH is, despite a culture dominated by "face-to-face interaction is paramount" folks. Setting up to be distributed is a great development, overall, and more companies should do it. So many things people thought not possible have become necessary and exposed that we could have been doing so much more already. We could have cut emissions more drastically long ago if we were treating unnecessary emissions like the threat they are (our typical emissions strategy is like having a mass orgy in a pit of razor blades at a Hole concert during this outbreak) for example. Could and should be providing universal healthcare, PTO, family leave, etc... | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7811 Posts
The guy is not only totally incompetent, he really is also a fucking asshole. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/coronavirus-gun-buyers.html I'm at a loss for words. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11338 Posts
Also, one can never be certain that a virus epidemic does not turn into zombies. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
-9/11= buy more guns -Obama get elected= buy more guns -Mass shooting= buy more guns -Trump get elected= buy more guns -ect... | ||
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