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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

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If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
February 27 2020 12:44 GMT
#43001
Let's just say that I do not think the inadequate public health attitude implications of puritanical nut job-ism stop at STDs, but yes, the fact that sex and needles are not involved weighs in favor of his not utterly failing, that much I can agree with lol
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
February 27 2020 12:51 GMT
#43002
I hope it doesn't happen, but if corona virus becomes a bigger issue it will be quite a disadvantage to have an anti-science serial-liar who is also incapable of admitting faults/defeat as a president.
Neosteel Enthusiast
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
February 27 2020 12:54 GMT
#43003
Overnight, the first US case of unknown origin was identified in NorCal, so I expect that Coronavirus will definitely become a bigger issue in some respects. Got some domestic travel at the end of April and end of May coming up, so I'm paying close attention.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12405 Posts
February 27 2020 12:57 GMT
#43004
On February 27 2020 21:54 farvacola wrote:
Overnight, the first US case of unknown origin was identified in NorCal, so I expect that Coronavirus will definitely become a bigger issue in some respects. Got some domestic travel at the end of April and end of May coming up, so I'm paying close attention.


Hadn't thought of that, damn... I'm going to be in the US at the beginning of april, hopefully that's not an issue.
No will to live, no wish to die
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23671 Posts
February 27 2020 13:23 GMT
#43005
On February 27 2020 21:17 Belisarius wrote:
I think it's fair to say that it plays badly with specific minorities in Florida, which is unfortunately a swing state. I agree with Bernie's response, but it highlights a vulnerability that I still think Trump will be more than capable of exploiting.

Now, someone might ask why a few thousand expats in Florida should have the same influence as a hundred times their number in Oregon or Nebraska, but that person is not making America great.


Worth mentioning that somewhere around 85%+ of Cuban Americans identify as white.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15742 Posts
February 27 2020 13:50 GMT
#43006
On February 27 2020 21:44 farvacola wrote:
Let's just say that I do not think the inadequate public health attitude implications of puritanical nut job-ism stop at STDs, but yes, the fact that sex and needles are not involved weighs in favor of his not utterly failing, that much I can agree with lol

Yeah if Corona virus was an STD, pence would be thinking "well then what a great opportunity"
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
February 27 2020 14:40 GMT
#43007
Are uninsured people obliged to pay for hospital based quarantine? Or do they have to self quarantine due to not wanting to bancrupt themselves?
passive quaranstream fan
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15742 Posts
February 27 2020 14:54 GMT
#43008
On February 27 2020 23:40 Artisreal wrote:
Are uninsured people obliged to pay for hospital based quarantine? Or do they have to self quarantine due to not wanting to bancrupt themselves?

People have to pay for emergency room visits and someone already had to pay $3500 to be tested.

While this is about to be really bad, it will highlight why it is important that people are not expected to cover incidental medical costs.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
February 27 2020 15:03 GMT
#43009
On February 27 2020 21:57 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2020 21:54 farvacola wrote:
Overnight, the first US case of unknown origin was identified in NorCal, so I expect that Coronavirus will definitely become a bigger issue in some respects. Got some domestic travel at the end of April and end of May coming up, so I'm paying close attention.


Hadn't thought of that, damn... I'm going to be in the US at the beginning of april, hopefully that's not an issue.


there are more cases in europe than the US right now
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12405 Posts
February 27 2020 15:08 GMT
#43010
On February 28 2020 00:03 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2020 21:57 Nebuchad wrote:
On February 27 2020 21:54 farvacola wrote:
Overnight, the first US case of unknown origin was identified in NorCal, so I expect that Coronavirus will definitely become a bigger issue in some respects. Got some domestic travel at the end of April and end of May coming up, so I'm paying close attention.


Hadn't thought of that, damn... I'm going to be in the US at the beginning of april, hopefully that's not an issue.


there are more cases in europe than the US right now


Sure, I'm concerned about travel limitations more than anything.
No will to live, no wish to die
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
February 27 2020 15:16 GMT
#43011
--- Nuked ---
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15742 Posts
February 27 2020 15:27 GMT
#43012
The Corona virus is an extremely good argument for changing our healthcare system. That's bad news. The Trump administration will 100% prioritize messaging over safety.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-27 15:41:27
February 27 2020 15:40 GMT
#43013
Very scary. It's already spread so much, I fully expect it to get worse still before it gets better. Especially when Trump and Pence are perfectly fine not knowing their head from their ass on this issue. Airlines voluntarily limiting their flight plans is more of a safeguard at this point.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15742 Posts
February 27 2020 17:23 GMT
#43014
Since we are hearing open talk about superdelegates, I've been closely examining my views on voting. In 2016, I took a firmly math'ish approach where no matter what, I owe it to the people who fought for democracy before I was born to vote. If I don't get my ideal candidate, that is fine, I should always vote for the lesser of two evils because many people had no such choice 300 years ago. 2016 was a weird year, since global populism was only beginning to go into full swing, social media became a big issue, Russian interference and many other things. It was a shit show.

There was a lot of thumb on the scale from the DNC towards Bernie, but I still felt like the party deserved a second chance to learn from their mistakes. None of it was illegal, but a great deal with it disagreed with my views on political ethics. Something doesn't need to be illegal to be wrong. I decided the DNC behaved wrongly during 2016 but they showed a willingness to change. Kind of.

Now that we are in 2020, it is perhaps worse than last time. The CBS debate is the nail in the coffin. If Bernie gets more non-super delegates over the course of the election, but is not made the nominee, I will not be voting for the democratic nominee in 2020. Easy for me to say, living in Oregon, but I think it is important to recognize what a shift this is from my 2016 stance. I am COMPLETELY unwilling to back a party that uses super delegates to override the majority. While I am not trying to make myself up to be some important person, a few of my friends seem to be coming to the same conclusions. It is really interesting to see. Despite being the anti-Trump party, its just not enough. I need to want to support what I am supporting. I've been flexible and recognizing that 2016 was weird, but we understand this stuff now in 2020.

If Bernie doesn't have the most delegates, I will get behind whoever does. But I don't recognize super delegates as a legitimate form of democracy. I'm not going to pretend some political party deciding on a set of rules is some divine, all-powerful code. If he gets the most, and isn't the nominee, I'm out.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22117 Posts
February 27 2020 17:43 GMT
#43015
On February 28 2020 02:23 Mohdoo wrote:
Since we are hearing open talk about superdelegates, I've been closely examining my views on voting. In 2016, I took a firmly math'ish approach where no matter what, I owe it to the people who fought for democracy before I was born to vote. If I don't get my ideal candidate, that is fine, I should always vote for the lesser of two evils because many people had no such choice 300 years ago. 2016 was a weird year, since global populism was only beginning to go into full swing, social media became a big issue, Russian interference and many other things. It was a shit show.

There was a lot of thumb on the scale from the DNC towards Bernie, but I still felt like the party deserved a second chance to learn from their mistakes. None of it was illegal, but a great deal with it disagreed with my views on political ethics. Something doesn't need to be illegal to be wrong. I decided the DNC behaved wrongly during 2016 but they showed a willingness to change. Kind of.

Now that we are in 2020, it is perhaps worse than last time. The CBS debate is the nail in the coffin. If Bernie gets more non-super delegates over the course of the election, but is not made the nominee, I will not be voting for the democratic nominee in 2020. Easy for me to say, living in Oregon, but I think it is important to recognize what a shift this is from my 2016 stance. I am COMPLETELY unwilling to back a party that uses super delegates to override the majority. While I am not trying to make myself up to be some important person, a few of my friends seem to be coming to the same conclusions. It is really interesting to see. Despite being the anti-Trump party, its just not enough. I need to want to support what I am supporting. I've been flexible and recognizing that 2016 was weird, but we understand this stuff now in 2020.

If Bernie doesn't have the most delegates, I will get behind whoever does. But I don't recognize super delegates as a legitimate form of democracy. I'm not going to pretend some political party deciding on a set of rules is some divine, all-powerful code. If he gets the most, and isn't the nominee, I'm out.
I think its a reasonably safe thing to say that if the DNC were to get behind anyone other then the person with the most 'normal' delegates after the primary they would be committing suicide.
Which is also why I see it as a completely unrealistic scenario that isn't going to happen.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Nouar
Profile Joined May 2009
France3270 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-27 17:48:19
February 27 2020 17:47 GMT
#43016
On February 28 2020 02:23 Mohdoo wrote:
Since we are hearing open talk about superdelegates, I've been closely examining my views on voting. In 2016, I took a firmly math'ish approach where no matter what, I owe it to the people who fought for democracy before I was born to vote. If I don't get my ideal candidate, that is fine, I should always vote for the lesser of two evils because many people had no such choice 300 years ago. 2016 was a weird year, since global populism was only beginning to go into full swing, social media became a big issue, Russian interference and many other things. It was a shit show.

There was a lot of thumb on the scale from the DNC towards Bernie, but I still felt like the party deserved a second chance to learn from their mistakes. None of it was illegal, but a great deal with it disagreed with my views on political ethics. Something doesn't need to be illegal to be wrong. I decided the DNC behaved wrongly during 2016 but they showed a willingness to change. Kind of.

Now that we are in 2020, it is perhaps worse than last time. The CBS debate is the nail in the coffin. If Bernie gets more non-super delegates over the course of the election, but is not made the nominee, I will not be voting for the democratic nominee in 2020. Easy for me to say, living in Oregon, but I think it is important to recognize what a shift this is from my 2016 stance. I am COMPLETELY unwilling to back a party that uses super delegates to override the majority. While I am not trying to make myself up to be some important person, a few of my friends seem to be coming to the same conclusions. It is really interesting to see. Despite being the anti-Trump party, its just not enough. I need to want to support what I am supporting. I've been flexible and recognizing that 2016 was weird, but we understand this stuff now in 2020.

If Bernie doesn't have the most delegates, I will get behind whoever does. But I don't recognize super delegates as a legitimate form of democracy. I'm not going to pretend some political party deciding on a set of rules is some divine, all-powerful code. If he gets the most, and isn't the nominee, I'm out.


I'm torn with that. I agree with you in principle, but one should not forget that Bernie is not a democrat (though he caucuses with them), so it's already pretty good to allow external people to compete in your party's primary. I can understand why they are a bit salty that he's the frontleader. That should be a wake-up call to them instead. Looks like they missed the lesson last time...

The main issue to me is not Bernie's treatment, but the two-party system/winner takes all. It has been flawed everywhere I looked. (multiple parties isn't a guaranteed road to success though... In the worst cases it can end up like Belgium -_-, but at least there is room for everyone to have a voice)
NoiR
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1952 Posts
February 27 2020 17:48 GMT
#43017
In regards to socialism, a lot of people were content with life in the not quite as bad dictatorship of Eastern Germany. It is certainly true, that measurable quality of life in the east was worse as in the west, but especially considering consumerism needs to dial back due to climatechange, I don't see the argument that life in gdr was economically too bad. That a country that is already poor and embargoed and a lot more in stable is doing worse is no surprise to me. I would think that our constant strive to grow will have to stop and don't see a reason yet why socialism cannot prevail just because it creates less wealth. Sometimes less is more.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
February 27 2020 17:48 GMT
#43018
On February 28 2020 02:43 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2020 02:23 Mohdoo wrote:
Since we are hearing open talk about superdelegates, I've been closely examining my views on voting. In 2016, I took a firmly math'ish approach where no matter what, I owe it to the people who fought for democracy before I was born to vote. If I don't get my ideal candidate, that is fine, I should always vote for the lesser of two evils because many people had no such choice 300 years ago. 2016 was a weird year, since global populism was only beginning to go into full swing, social media became a big issue, Russian interference and many other things. It was a shit show.

There was a lot of thumb on the scale from the DNC towards Bernie, but I still felt like the party deserved a second chance to learn from their mistakes. None of it was illegal, but a great deal with it disagreed with my views on political ethics. Something doesn't need to be illegal to be wrong. I decided the DNC behaved wrongly during 2016 but they showed a willingness to change. Kind of.

Now that we are in 2020, it is perhaps worse than last time. The CBS debate is the nail in the coffin. If Bernie gets more non-super delegates over the course of the election, but is not made the nominee, I will not be voting for the democratic nominee in 2020. Easy for me to say, living in Oregon, but I think it is important to recognize what a shift this is from my 2016 stance. I am COMPLETELY unwilling to back a party that uses super delegates to override the majority. While I am not trying to make myself up to be some important person, a few of my friends seem to be coming to the same conclusions. It is really interesting to see. Despite being the anti-Trump party, its just not enough. I need to want to support what I am supporting. I've been flexible and recognizing that 2016 was weird, but we understand this stuff now in 2020.

If Bernie doesn't have the most delegates, I will get behind whoever does. But I don't recognize super delegates as a legitimate form of democracy. I'm not going to pretend some political party deciding on a set of rules is some divine, all-powerful code. If he gets the most, and isn't the nominee, I'm out.
I think its a reasonably safe thing to say that if the DNC were to get behind anyone other then the person with the most 'normal' delegates after the primary they would be committing suicide.
Which is also why I see it as a completely unrealistic scenario that isn't going to happen.


The only way it happens is if its not even close to a majority. Something like Bernie 25 Biden 24 bloomberg/pete 20 each warren at 11. Then I can see the DNC picking Biden over Bernie. but if its something like Bernie 45 and Biden 20 then yeah, Bernie should get it
Something witty
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
February 27 2020 18:02 GMT
#43019
On February 28 2020 00:27 Mohdoo wrote:
The Corona virus is an extremely good argument for changing our healthcare system. That's bad news. The Trump administration will 100% prioritize messaging over safety.

My wife said it'd also constitute a good start for an argument about sky-high walls around the country to keep the infected (i.e. foreigners) out. That 100% suits Trumps narrative as far as I can see.
passive quaranstream fan
plated.rawr
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Norway1676 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-27 18:08:28
February 27 2020 18:06 GMT
#43020
On February 28 2020 03:02 Artisreal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2020 00:27 Mohdoo wrote:
The Corona virus is an extremely good argument for changing our healthcare system. That's bad news. The Trump administration will 100% prioritize messaging over safety.

My wife said it'd also constitute a good start for an argument about sky-high walls around the country to keep the infected (i.e. foreigners) out. That 100% suits Trumps narrative as far as I can see.

Considering how potential Corona virus carriers will, like illegal immigrant, also arrive in the US through normal and legal channels rather than by sneaking across deserted wasteland border areas, i agree - it'll 100% fit Donald's typical reasoning and argumentation.
Savior broke my heart ;_; || twitch.tv/onnings
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