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Chiming in a little late, but I wanted to clarify that half the people of Israel supporting getting rid of Netanjahu does not mean they are also against the policy against Palestinians. The political camp that is against the settlements and for defusing the conflict is much smaller then that. The political left in Israel is much more economical left then social, although of course not all of them support the treatment of Palestinians.
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On December 06 2019 13:42 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2019 10:55 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 10:49 Mohdoo wrote:On December 06 2019 09:42 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 09:02 Gorsameth wrote:On December 06 2019 08:16 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 07:31 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2019 06:06 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 05:03 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2019 00:23 JimmiC wrote:[quote] Which is why it early to proclaim it as happening, he could happen, but treating a presumption like a fact is very dangerous. There is a ton of people against what the right in Israel is doing in the west bank as well. Also, there is a real threat to all the jews in Israel. What would happen if all the countries pulled their support tomorrow? In current news on the impeachment NPR had a great break down on the phone record's. They show the dates and times of the call's between Giuliani and the white house. Nunes calls and the mystery "-1" number that everyone thinks is Trump but has yet to be confirmed. If it is confirmed it will be another nail in the coffin for non partisan people and sadly probably meaningless to everyone who still support trump. https://www.npr.org/2019/12/04/784819728/giuliani-nunes-and-1-a-look-at-what-the-impeachment-report-phone-records-mean No specifically the point of my post was that it’s still ethnic cleansing way before the ‘exterminating everyone’ point, not that it’s not ethnic cleansing because Israel aren’t ritually exterminating everyone. What would happen? Really? There’s no justification for it, whatsoever and Israel isn’t a global power like China that we have to pay lip service to. That neighbours aren’t exactly fans of Israel is irrelevant, the state only exists because world powers felt the Holocaust was a bit shit, that people descended from those people treat another people as they do is a disgrace anyway but especially informed by that. First I think it is a huge issue if we are only willing to crack down on people doing horrible things that are not big enough economic powers that it does not hurt us. China is rounding up people of a specific ethnicity, to put them in camps for "reeducation" and not all of them make it out. It is state sponsored organized and actively concealed. It is done to their own citizens and those people provide no threat to them, other than that they worship a different god than the communist party of China. As I started off I don't know enough about the situation in Israel to make a determination about whether or not what they are doing is ethnic cleansing so I don't want to be put in a position of defending them when I'm not sure that I would if I knew more. What I do know is it is far more complex because there are actually large groups of people who want them wiped from the planet, and they still don't even have a peace agreement with Palestine. There is no simple solution to Israel or Palestine as both groups feel that they have rights to the land for holy reasons and both seem willing to kill the other. Right now Israel and the Jews have more might there so they are abusing it, 70 years ago that wasn't the case, 200 years before that no, 1000 years ago no, and so on. It is a deep seeded religious war that scholars who have studied it there whole lives don't agree and don't have any good solutions for solving it. The China one is simple, they should just stop their ethnic cleansing and stop trying to eradicate a entire culture of people. Israeli security forces killed 290 Palestinians in 2018. 5287 people were killed during Venezuelan security operations in 2018, and those are the "registered" number of extrajudicial killings linked to "resistance to authority", They include such crimes as a starving indigenous tribe trying to get food aid and being shot. Can you imagine how many go unreported by the government supported colectivo's? It is disturbing to say the least. There is a reason why so many Jews through out the world think this type of talk is just people hiding their antisemitism because Hamas has declared Jihad and does want to wipe Israel from the map, so does Iran. Many of them remember actually being rounded up and sent to gas chambers, or have direct relatives who did. Does that justify some of their governments heinous acts, no it doesn't. And the center and the left with-in Israel itself is trying to fight that right now. People should be supporting the people within the country (that make up a huge %) that want to do the right thing instead of denouncing the whole country and acting as if they are evil. I have yet to hear anyone say "Venezuela is ethnic cleansing", in fact there is way way to many people on the left who support Maduro and justify his heinous acts. If you want to be about human rights great, we all should be, but it shouldn't be about human rights of the people on the left or right. It should be about human rights of everyone. And sadly the far right does not have exclusive rights to being horrible horrible people who do horrible things, the far left has a pretty ugly history and sadly current record as well. Well not Israel has a terrible human rights record and anyone be they far left or to the opposite doesn’t really have to do much to point this out. Its bollocks and everyone who takes 5 seconds to consider it knows it’s bollocks, there’s no complexity to it. There is literately 1000's of years of complexity to Israel, and the same for antisemitism. And they get to be target of hate from Left right and everywhere in between. Does that make what their far right leader, who they are trying to bring up on corruption charges for, not a horrible person who has done horrible things. No it does not. Does it mean that we should not have compassion for the Israeli's, and Jewish people in general for their plight, of course not. And if you are really mad at this, you should be really really really mad at China and Venezuela's behavior. Because while you are not to my knowledge guilty of it there are some members of the far left who constantly apologize for those countries behaviors because they claim to be socialists. And the people who do that are no different than the right wing people who support violence of their perceived enemies. Those people are just the other side of the same coin. Israel's issues go well beyond Netanyahu. They have been hiding from any form of criticism against the state, not the people, by shouting antisemitism for a long time. And yes as always there are other countries that also do bad things, they are also still bad. More then 1 country can be bad and we can be mad at all of them at once. I totally agree with your second point, in fact it was my point. So lets not keep banging the Israel drum and go after them all. Because when you single out Israel and not the other bad actors it does become to look and feel a lot like antisemitism. Israel is a particularly bad actor in the region. Worse than Iran and probably equal to Saudi Arabia in terms of "ruining the world". I agree that they are bad actor, I'm not sure particularly. Saudi Arabia, Iran Syria, Egypt and Iraq all have done some pretty terrible things over time and recently. And what is your purposed solution to the problem? 2 sides each have a book that says a certain piece of land is not only 100% theirs, but that it is important the other one SPECIFICALLY DOES NOT HAVE IT. That's the funniest part. It's not just "this is your home". It's "and for fucking SURE not THEIR home and make 110 fucking percent sure they never get it" The only solution is to force the specific land in question to be entirely shared. I think the only realistic and "fair" solution is to treat them both like the idiots they are and say "I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna let your books be the reason millions of people die over the course of this eternal conflict. We're done. Neither of you win and you are forced to share, controlled by some outside entity. No Israeli government, no Palestinian government." It is easy to argue that both sides of this conflict are awful for allowing a disagreement of this nature cause so much human suffering and death. No piece of land should feel worth that and they should both be ashamed. It is important to reflect on what it means for a human consciousness to be extinguished. Really think about what it means for people to die, then realize how many do because of a disagreement over books. It can't be allowed. From a purely humanitarian perspective, the EU and North America have taken a very heavy handed approach to widespread suffering in other parts of the world, but allow what is essentially a repeating story of death and suffering. We shouldn't be allowing a conflict of this nature to exist. We need to end it immediately.
Those books define their respective cultures though. You can’t simply take that away by force without there being widespread societal upheaval on both sides. That being said, you’re right that they’re culturally inclined to exterminate each other, which is a problem.
Another thing is that Israel as a state is the anomaly; it wouldn’t exist if not for the West. I would then argue that more so than Palestine it has an obligation to play nice. Its continued existence is dependent on the U.S. so the U.S. has a lot of power to ensure compliance.
So with all that being said, here’s my proposed solution...
1) Heavy multinational support needs to be used to enforce anything. Something akin to the NATO or UN.
2) Israel borders are reset to the original 1948 agreement. Considering they’ve conceded territories they’ve won from wars in the past, this would hopefully not be quite as big a deal as it seems.
3) Those Israelis/Palestinians who aren’t dual citizens currently living outside those borders and owning property are allowed to live in said properties until the current owner is deceased or sells the property, in which case it is returned to the state that it resides. Survivors of the owner will be paid for the property by the state.
4) Israelis and Palestinians will be allowed in each other’s countries, to promote sharing of culture. Financial incentives will exist for those promoting this.
5) Mandatory education of the Israel-Palestine conflict will be enforced in schools by a multinational agency. The curriculum will be created by a collaborative effort of international experts to ensure neutrality as much as possible, while ensuring all atrocities from both sides are presented.
6) Israel-Palestinian hate crimes will be treated especially harshly and be processed by a multinational tribunal to ensure neutrality.
7) Occupation of both states by the international enforcing agency will be mandatory, until a minimum of hate crimes have been reached over a period of X years. This will be separate for each state; e.g. if Israel to Palestine hate crimes are at an acceptable level but the reverse is not, the enforcing agency will stay in Palestine and leave Israel.
8) Other Arab countries attempting military operations against Israel will be met with extreme prejudice from the enforcing agency, up to and including militarized borders, no fly zones, and extreme economic sanctions.
TLDR; I think the problem is solvable if nations work together and are willing to invest a good chunk of resources, which I guess is true of most problems so w/e.
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On December 07 2019 00:17 Ryzel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2019 13:42 Mohdoo wrote:On December 06 2019 10:55 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 10:49 Mohdoo wrote:On December 06 2019 09:42 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 09:02 Gorsameth wrote:On December 06 2019 08:16 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 07:31 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2019 06:06 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 05:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
[quote]
No specifically the point of my post was that it’s still ethnic cleansing way before the ‘exterminating everyone’ point, not that it’s not ethnic cleansing because Israel aren’t ritually exterminating everyone.
What would happen? Really? There’s no justification for it, whatsoever and Israel isn’t a global power like China that we have to pay lip service to.
That neighbours aren’t exactly fans of Israel is irrelevant, the state only exists because world powers felt the Holocaust was a bit shit, that people descended from those people treat another people as they do is a disgrace anyway but especially informed by that.
First I think it is a huge issue if we are only willing to crack down on people doing horrible things that are not big enough economic powers that it does not hurt us. China is rounding up people of a specific ethnicity, to put them in camps for "reeducation" and not all of them make it out. It is state sponsored organized and actively concealed. It is done to their own citizens and those people provide no threat to them, other than that they worship a different god than the communist party of China. As I started off I don't know enough about the situation in Israel to make a determination about whether or not what they are doing is ethnic cleansing so I don't want to be put in a position of defending them when I'm not sure that I would if I knew more. What I do know is it is far more complex because there are actually large groups of people who want them wiped from the planet, and they still don't even have a peace agreement with Palestine. There is no simple solution to Israel or Palestine as both groups feel that they have rights to the land for holy reasons and both seem willing to kill the other. Right now Israel and the Jews have more might there so they are abusing it, 70 years ago that wasn't the case, 200 years before that no, 1000 years ago no, and so on. It is a deep seeded religious war that scholars who have studied it there whole lives don't agree and don't have any good solutions for solving it. The China one is simple, they should just stop their ethnic cleansing and stop trying to eradicate a entire culture of people. Israeli security forces killed 290 Palestinians in 2018. 5287 people were killed during Venezuelan security operations in 2018, and those are the "registered" number of extrajudicial killings linked to "resistance to authority", They include such crimes as a starving indigenous tribe trying to get food aid and being shot. Can you imagine how many go unreported by the government supported colectivo's? It is disturbing to say the least. There is a reason why so many Jews through out the world think this type of talk is just people hiding their antisemitism because Hamas has declared Jihad and does want to wipe Israel from the map, so does Iran. Many of them remember actually being rounded up and sent to gas chambers, or have direct relatives who did. Does that justify some of their governments heinous acts, no it doesn't. And the center and the left with-in Israel itself is trying to fight that right now. People should be supporting the people within the country (that make up a huge %) that want to do the right thing instead of denouncing the whole country and acting as if they are evil. I have yet to hear anyone say "Venezuela is ethnic cleansing", in fact there is way way to many people on the left who support Maduro and justify his heinous acts. If you want to be about human rights great, we all should be, but it shouldn't be about human rights of the people on the left or right. It should be about human rights of everyone. And sadly the far right does not have exclusive rights to being horrible horrible people who do horrible things, the far left has a pretty ugly history and sadly current record as well. Well not Israel has a terrible human rights record and anyone be they far left or to the opposite doesn’t really have to do much to point this out. Its bollocks and everyone who takes 5 seconds to consider it knows it’s bollocks, there’s no complexity to it. There is literately 1000's of years of complexity to Israel, and the same for antisemitism. And they get to be target of hate from Left right and everywhere in between. Does that make what their far right leader, who they are trying to bring up on corruption charges for, not a horrible person who has done horrible things. No it does not. Does it mean that we should not have compassion for the Israeli's, and Jewish people in general for their plight, of course not. And if you are really mad at this, you should be really really really mad at China and Venezuela's behavior. Because while you are not to my knowledge guilty of it there are some members of the far left who constantly apologize for those countries behaviors because they claim to be socialists. And the people who do that are no different than the right wing people who support violence of their perceived enemies. Those people are just the other side of the same coin. Israel's issues go well beyond Netanyahu. They have been hiding from any form of criticism against the state, not the people, by shouting antisemitism for a long time. And yes as always there are other countries that also do bad things, they are also still bad. More then 1 country can be bad and we can be mad at all of them at once. I totally agree with your second point, in fact it was my point. So lets not keep banging the Israel drum and go after them all. Because when you single out Israel and not the other bad actors it does become to look and feel a lot like antisemitism. Israel is a particularly bad actor in the region. Worse than Iran and probably equal to Saudi Arabia in terms of "ruining the world". I agree that they are bad actor, I'm not sure particularly. Saudi Arabia, Iran Syria, Egypt and Iraq all have done some pretty terrible things over time and recently. And what is your purposed solution to the problem? 2 sides each have a book that says a certain piece of land is not only 100% theirs, but that it is important the other one SPECIFICALLY DOES NOT HAVE IT. That's the funniest part. It's not just "this is your home". It's "and for fucking SURE not THEIR home and make 110 fucking percent sure they never get it" The only solution is to force the specific land in question to be entirely shared. I think the only realistic and "fair" solution is to treat them both like the idiots they are and say "I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna let your books be the reason millions of people die over the course of this eternal conflict. We're done. Neither of you win and you are forced to share, controlled by some outside entity. No Israeli government, no Palestinian government." It is easy to argue that both sides of this conflict are awful for allowing a disagreement of this nature cause so much human suffering and death. No piece of land should feel worth that and they should both be ashamed. It is important to reflect on what it means for a human consciousness to be extinguished. Really think about what it means for people to die, then realize how many do because of a disagreement over books. It can't be allowed. From a purely humanitarian perspective, the EU and North America have taken a very heavy handed approach to widespread suffering in other parts of the world, but allow what is essentially a repeating story of death and suffering. We shouldn't be allowing a conflict of this nature to exist. We need to end it immediately. Those books define their respective cultures though. You can’t simply take that away by force without there being widespread societal upheaval on both sides. That being said, you’re right that they’re culturally inclined to exterminate each other, which is a problem. Another thing is that Israel as a state is the anomaly; it wouldn’t exist if not for the West. I would then argue that more so than Palestine it has an obligation to play nice. Its continued existence is dependent on the U.S. so the U.S. has a lot of power to ensure compliance. So with all that being said, here’s my proposed solution... 1) Heavy multinational support needs to be used to enforce anything. Something akin to the NATO or UN. 2) Israel borders are reset to the original 1948 agreement. Considering they’ve conceded territories they’ve won from wars in the past, this would hopefully not be quite as big a deal as it seems. 3) Those Israelis/Palestinians who aren’t dual citizens currently living outside those borders and owning property are allowed to live in said properties until the current owner is deceased or sells the property, in which case it is returned to the state that it resides. Survivors of the owner will be paid for the property by the state. 4) Israelis and Palestinians will be allowed in each other’s countries, to promote sharing of culture. Financial incentives will exist for those promoting this. 5) Mandatory education of the Israel-Palestine conflict will be enforced in schools by a multinational agency. The curriculum will be created by a collaborative effort of international experts to ensure neutrality as much as possible, while ensuring all atrocities from both sides are presented. 6) Israel-Palestinian hate crimes will be treated especially harshly and be processed by a multinational tribunal to ensure neutrality. 7) Occupation of both states by the international enforcing agency will be mandatory, until a minimum of hate crimes have been reached over a period of X years. This will be separate for each state; e.g. if Israel to Palestine hate crimes are at an acceptable level but the reverse is not, the enforcing agency will stay in Palestine and leave Israel. 8) Other Arab countries attempting military operations against Israel will be met with extreme prejudice from the enforcing agency, up to and including militarized borders, no fly zones, and extreme economic sanctions. TLDR; I think the problem is solvable if nations work together and are willing to invest a good chunk of resources, which I guess is true of most problems so w/e.
I agree with everyone that the solution is complicated. What's simple is there can't be a solution with the US supporting illegal settlements. Every day that continues is an unconscionable abomination openly supported/armed/and defended against the rest of the entire planets governments by the US.
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On December 07 2019 00:17 Ryzel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2019 13:42 Mohdoo wrote:On December 06 2019 10:55 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 10:49 Mohdoo wrote:On December 06 2019 09:42 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 09:02 Gorsameth wrote:On December 06 2019 08:16 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 07:31 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2019 06:06 JimmiC wrote:On December 06 2019 05:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
[quote]
No specifically the point of my post was that it’s still ethnic cleansing way before the ‘exterminating everyone’ point, not that it’s not ethnic cleansing because Israel aren’t ritually exterminating everyone.
What would happen? Really? There’s no justification for it, whatsoever and Israel isn’t a global power like China that we have to pay lip service to.
That neighbours aren’t exactly fans of Israel is irrelevant, the state only exists because world powers felt the Holocaust was a bit shit, that people descended from those people treat another people as they do is a disgrace anyway but especially informed by that.
First I think it is a huge issue if we are only willing to crack down on people doing horrible things that are not big enough economic powers that it does not hurt us. China is rounding up people of a specific ethnicity, to put them in camps for "reeducation" and not all of them make it out. It is state sponsored organized and actively concealed. It is done to their own citizens and those people provide no threat to them, other than that they worship a different god than the communist party of China. As I started off I don't know enough about the situation in Israel to make a determination about whether or not what they are doing is ethnic cleansing so I don't want to be put in a position of defending them when I'm not sure that I would if I knew more. What I do know is it is far more complex because there are actually large groups of people who want them wiped from the planet, and they still don't even have a peace agreement with Palestine. There is no simple solution to Israel or Palestine as both groups feel that they have rights to the land for holy reasons and both seem willing to kill the other. Right now Israel and the Jews have more might there so they are abusing it, 70 years ago that wasn't the case, 200 years before that no, 1000 years ago no, and so on. It is a deep seeded religious war that scholars who have studied it there whole lives don't agree and don't have any good solutions for solving it. The China one is simple, they should just stop their ethnic cleansing and stop trying to eradicate a entire culture of people. Israeli security forces killed 290 Palestinians in 2018. 5287 people were killed during Venezuelan security operations in 2018, and those are the "registered" number of extrajudicial killings linked to "resistance to authority", They include such crimes as a starving indigenous tribe trying to get food aid and being shot. Can you imagine how many go unreported by the government supported colectivo's? It is disturbing to say the least. There is a reason why so many Jews through out the world think this type of talk is just people hiding their antisemitism because Hamas has declared Jihad and does want to wipe Israel from the map, so does Iran. Many of them remember actually being rounded up and sent to gas chambers, or have direct relatives who did. Does that justify some of their governments heinous acts, no it doesn't. And the center and the left with-in Israel itself is trying to fight that right now. People should be supporting the people within the country (that make up a huge %) that want to do the right thing instead of denouncing the whole country and acting as if they are evil. I have yet to hear anyone say "Venezuela is ethnic cleansing", in fact there is way way to many people on the left who support Maduro and justify his heinous acts. If you want to be about human rights great, we all should be, but it shouldn't be about human rights of the people on the left or right. It should be about human rights of everyone. And sadly the far right does not have exclusive rights to being horrible horrible people who do horrible things, the far left has a pretty ugly history and sadly current record as well. Well not Israel has a terrible human rights record and anyone be they far left or to the opposite doesn’t really have to do much to point this out. Its bollocks and everyone who takes 5 seconds to consider it knows it’s bollocks, there’s no complexity to it. There is literately 1000's of years of complexity to Israel, and the same for antisemitism. And they get to be target of hate from Left right and everywhere in between. Does that make what their far right leader, who they are trying to bring up on corruption charges for, not a horrible person who has done horrible things. No it does not. Does it mean that we should not have compassion for the Israeli's, and Jewish people in general for their plight, of course not. And if you are really mad at this, you should be really really really mad at China and Venezuela's behavior. Because while you are not to my knowledge guilty of it there are some members of the far left who constantly apologize for those countries behaviors because they claim to be socialists. And the people who do that are no different than the right wing people who support violence of their perceived enemies. Those people are just the other side of the same coin. Israel's issues go well beyond Netanyahu. They have been hiding from any form of criticism against the state, not the people, by shouting antisemitism for a long time. And yes as always there are other countries that also do bad things, they are also still bad. More then 1 country can be bad and we can be mad at all of them at once. I totally agree with your second point, in fact it was my point. So lets not keep banging the Israel drum and go after them all. Because when you single out Israel and not the other bad actors it does become to look and feel a lot like antisemitism. Israel is a particularly bad actor in the region. Worse than Iran and probably equal to Saudi Arabia in terms of "ruining the world". I agree that they are bad actor, I'm not sure particularly. Saudi Arabia, Iran Syria, Egypt and Iraq all have done some pretty terrible things over time and recently. And what is your purposed solution to the problem? 2 sides each have a book that says a certain piece of land is not only 100% theirs, but that it is important the other one SPECIFICALLY DOES NOT HAVE IT. That's the funniest part. It's not just "this is your home". It's "and for fucking SURE not THEIR home and make 110 fucking percent sure they never get it" The only solution is to force the specific land in question to be entirely shared. I think the only realistic and "fair" solution is to treat them both like the idiots they are and say "I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna let your books be the reason millions of people die over the course of this eternal conflict. We're done. Neither of you win and you are forced to share, controlled by some outside entity. No Israeli government, no Palestinian government." It is easy to argue that both sides of this conflict are awful for allowing a disagreement of this nature cause so much human suffering and death. No piece of land should feel worth that and they should both be ashamed. It is important to reflect on what it means for a human consciousness to be extinguished. Really think about what it means for people to die, then realize how many do because of a disagreement over books. It can't be allowed. From a purely humanitarian perspective, the EU and North America have taken a very heavy handed approach to widespread suffering in other parts of the world, but allow what is essentially a repeating story of death and suffering. We shouldn't be allowing a conflict of this nature to exist. We need to end it immediately. Those books define their respective cultures though. You can’t simply take that away by force without there being widespread societal upheaval on both sides. That being said, you’re right that they’re culturally inclined to exterminate each other, which is a problem. Another thing is that Israel as a state is the anomaly; it wouldn’t exist if not for the West. I would then argue that more so than Palestine it has an obligation to play nice. Its continued existence is dependent on the U.S. so the U.S. has a lot of power to ensure compliance. TLDR; I think the problem is solvable if nations work together and are willing to invest a good chunk of resources, which I guess is true of most problems so w/e.
Their respective cultures aren't worth protecting if they are just a perpetual conflict. The world doesn't benefit from protecting that culture. How many lives have been lost as a result of the Israeli conflict? It is important to remember the land is not actually important. It is just that some people value it. These are not people who can only breathe the Israeli/Palestinian air. They aren't reliant on nutrition you can only get from items found in the area.
We treat these people like children, but they aren't children. Instead of taking the perspective of "oh gosh, but just think about how they'd react", realize children cry for a variety of reasons, not many of which are worth giving in to. It isn't appropriate to tip-toe around invalidating culture when kids are dying.
I think you have a good system of fixing the problem outlined, but I think it relies too much on willingness. You are missing the book problem. Their books disagree with every point, so they disagree. So remove them from the equation. If you were babysitting a child, and every time they played with their favorite toy, they ended up bleeding, how many times would you let that child play with that toy? How long would it take you to realize the kid can't be trusted with their favorite toy?
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This is something interesting happening in Illinois. I live 25 minutes away and I want to see what the benefits and ramifications of this will be. If it improves QoL and the local economy picks up, then it could be a small blueprint for how to move forward.
A city in Illinois has announced it will create a reparations fund for its African American community through a new tax on marijuana sales.
Recreational use of the drug will become legal in the state from January and officials in Evanston, which is 12 miles north of Chicago, have voted to approve a 3 per cent tax on the sales to fund a local reparations programme.
The tax is expected to generate between $500,000 and $750,000 annually for the reparations fund, which will be capped at $10 million over the next ten years.
Source
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Do the white slaves also get reparations ?
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Click the link, it says
The fund will be available to all of the city's black residents, rather than merely those who can prove they had an ancestor who was enslaved, as long as they can meet certain residency criteria.
Maybe it's a war on drugs reparations fund, not slavery reparations fund.
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On December 07 2019 04:11 Erasme wrote:
Do the white slaves also get reparations ?
A quick wiki search for "white slave trade" says that 50-67% were indentured. So I would guess...no?
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On December 07 2019 04:14 Sent. wrote:Click the link, it says Show nested quote +The fund will be available to all of the city's black residents, rather than merely those who can prove they had an ancestor who was enslaved, as long as they can meet certain residency criteria. Maybe it's a war on drugs reparations fund, not slavery reparations fund.
Interesting.
I wonder how they will distribute it. Would be nice if it was through education/investments.
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Canada5565 Posts
On December 06 2019 22:36 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Biden's ' No Malarkey' tour kicked off in Iowa with him telling an 84 year old farmer "let’s do pushups together here, man. Let’s run. Let’s do whatever you want to do. Let’s take an IQ test. OK?". Biden is comedy gold, if that ain't malarkey then what is? He's still the frontrunner, somehow.Warren collapsing on RCP poll averages. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/05/joe-biden-iowa-voter-fat
I wonder if the DNC will turn away from him. The "gaffs" are adding up and attracting attention.
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On December 07 2019 03:27 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:This is something interesting happening in Illinois. I live 25 minutes away and I want to see what the benefits and ramifications of this will be. If it improves QoL and the local economy picks up, then it could be a small blueprint for how to move forward. Show nested quote +A city in Illinois has announced it will create a reparations fund for its African American community through a new tax on marijuana sales.
Recreational use of the drug will become legal in the state from January and officials in Evanston, which is 12 miles north of Chicago, have voted to approve a 3 per cent tax on the sales to fund a local reparations programme.
The tax is expected to generate between $500,000 and $750,000 annually for the reparations fund, which will be capped at $10 million over the next ten years. Source
Wonder if this becomes a blueprint for reparations or a blueprint for UBI.
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On December 07 2019 04:31 Xxio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2019 22:36 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Biden's ' No Malarkey' tour kicked off in Iowa with him telling an 84 year old farmer "let’s do pushups together here, man. Let’s run. Let’s do whatever you want to do. Let’s take an IQ test. OK?". Biden is comedy gold, if that ain't malarkey then what is? He's still the frontrunner, somehow.Warren collapsing on RCP poll averages. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/05/joe-biden-iowa-voter-fat I wonder if the DNC will turn away from him. The "gaffs" are adding up and attracting attention.
I'd like to see more of this from Biden, just done better. He was great up until the point where he asked about an IQ test. Keep it strictly to bravado, no need for the iamverysmart.
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On December 07 2019 04:46 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2019 03:27 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:This is something interesting happening in Illinois. I live 25 minutes away and I want to see what the benefits and ramifications of this will be. If it improves QoL and the local economy picks up, then it could be a small blueprint for how to move forward. A city in Illinois has announced it will create a reparations fund for its African American community through a new tax on marijuana sales.
Recreational use of the drug will become legal in the state from January and officials in Evanston, which is 12 miles north of Chicago, have voted to approve a 3 per cent tax on the sales to fund a local reparations programme.
The tax is expected to generate between $500,000 and $750,000 annually for the reparations fund, which will be capped at $10 million over the next ten years. Source Wonder if this becomes a blueprint for reparations or a blueprint for UBI.
I thought that UBI is socialist and socialist is still an insult in the US no ?
I remember trump putting on twitter a 50sec video on how socialism killed millions but i can't find it anymore
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On December 07 2019 04:59 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2019 04:31 Xxio wrote:On December 06 2019 22:36 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Biden's ' No Malarkey' tour kicked off in Iowa with him telling an 84 year old farmer "let’s do pushups together here, man. Let’s run. Let’s do whatever you want to do. Let’s take an IQ test. OK?". Biden is comedy gold, if that ain't malarkey then what is? He's still the frontrunner, somehow.Warren collapsing on RCP poll averages. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/05/joe-biden-iowa-voter-fat I wonder if the DNC will turn away from him. The "gaffs" are adding up and attracting attention. I'd like to see more of this from Biden, just done better. He was great up until the point where he asked about an IQ test. Keep it strictly to bravado, no need for the iamverysmart.
I mean... really?
If this rates positively on the meter, this election is gonna be a traaaaaaaaainwreck.
I don't see the sense behind anyone on here supporting Biden at all. I can see the electoral logic for the less informed, but everyone on here must know Trump will crush Biden like a paper cup and toss him in the trash. He's Trump's perfect kind of opponent.
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I don't think anyone here supports Biden. At least i can't recall anyone writing something to that accord.
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On December 07 2019 07:14 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2019 04:59 Mohdoo wrote:On December 07 2019 04:31 Xxio wrote:On December 06 2019 22:36 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Biden's ' No Malarkey' tour kicked off in Iowa with him telling an 84 year old farmer "let’s do pushups together here, man. Let’s run. Let’s do whatever you want to do. Let’s take an IQ test. OK?". Biden is comedy gold, if that ain't malarkey then what is? He's still the frontrunner, somehow.Warren collapsing on RCP poll averages. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/05/joe-biden-iowa-voter-fat I wonder if the DNC will turn away from him. The "gaffs" are adding up and attracting attention. I'd like to see more of this from Biden, just done better. He was great up until the point where he asked about an IQ test. Keep it strictly to bravado, no need for the iamverysmart. I mean... really? If this rates positively on the meter, this election is gonna be a traaaaaaaaainwreck. I don't see the sense behind anyone on here supporting Biden at all. I can see the electoral logic for the less informed, but everyone on here must know Trump will crush Biden like a paper cup and toss him in the trash. He's Trump's perfect kind of opponent.
I'm far from pro-Biden, but the general electorate is sub-garbage and they really like shows of strength and masculinity. Imagine being someone who thinks it is a good thing to buy a truck without working in construction or some other profession that uses a truck. That's who is voting. That is why Biden doing shit like this is a good thing is he gets the nomination.
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Canada5565 Posts
Lobbyist George Nader, currently in custody for possessing child porn, was charged with eight others for "conspiring to conceal the source of excessive contributions to groups supporting Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign, the Justice Department announced on Tuesday." Hopefully he will cooperate and reveal more corruption. Looks like it connects to Republicans and Democrats.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/us/politics/george-nader-ahmad-khawaja.html
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We should clearly decide which 80 year old man runs the free world via an arm-wrestling competition.
It's probably fairer than the current US electoral process anyway.
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On December 05 2019 22:33 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2019 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 05 2019 21:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 05 2019 21:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 05 2019 21:33 Liquid`Drone wrote:
would she end biden and buttigieg? I haven't seen a single person remotely positive towards her running. I get that there are people, that are entirely outside any of my circles, but like.. I just don't understand how she could have any impact, aside from possibly making some democrats like, or dislike a candidate she backs, or criticizes. She'd compete with Biden but definitely wouldn't end his run. Buttigieg's base is different than Biden's no matter how badly people want to paint him as the same type of candidate. Biden can't afford to lose any more frontrunner status. It's not that she'd crater him like she did in 08 but that he can't afford to lose even 5% of his support at this point. Buttigieg's base are next gen establishment folks. Basically the "More women prison guards and defense contractors!" crowd. Haha, yeah the type to share op eds like ‘The World’s First Openly Gay Dictator’ as a sign of incremental progress. lmao yup Show nested quote +On December 05 2019 22:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:The New York Times made an article about the torture programs of the CIA after 11/9. It made me want to both puke and cry. Here it isIt's really hard to understand how the american public is ok with that. I don't see how one that is not affected by a higher level of psychopathy can see those drawings and not feel sick. Remember when I was flipping out about Hillary seeking out Kissinger's endorsement and her supporters explained it away as politics? This also ties into Ellen defending yucking it up with Bush and Spicer dancing on TV. Which connects to the FBI building being named after the guy who systematically discredited, imprisoned, and assasinated civil rights leaders. Which ties to why impeachment is failing. You don't get to have Ellen and Bush joking around or Michelle slipping him candy and hugs while also trying to maintain outrage about his war crimes. It's at the core of why impeachment was always going to fail and the banks were never held accountable. It's obviously not strictly a partisan issue, as bipartisan support for Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign demonstrates.
Yeah and in my book it's a program that was started by the republicans, and that the democrats shut down as soon as they got power. And now that the republicans are back up there, chief torturers are again in business. Torture is a red line that has been crossed by the Bush administration and that Obama restored immediately.
But hey, GH is gonna do some GH and immediately jump on Killary, because.
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EPT
