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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15466 Posts
"But people like their insurance they have" no, they, fucking, do...NOT. People like their doctors. M4A does not mean we need an entire new fleet of doctors since the other ones were associated with insurance. The CNN debate was a fucking travesty for that. I can't believe how many people just let the moderators toss that shit out there. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22988 Posts
On August 03 2019 00:19 Mohdoo wrote: Getting really fucking sick and tired of the debate around medicare for all. "But people like their insurance they have" no, they, fucking, do...NOT. People like their doctors. M4A does not mean we need an entire new fleet of doctors since the other ones were associated with insurance. The CNN debate was a fucking travesty for that. I can't believe how many people just let the moderators toss that shit out there. I mean CNN wouldn't want big pharma/insurance companies to take their ad dollars elsewhere, now would they? | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
Currently insurance companies don't want that, so they lobby the hell out of congress to make sure it doesn't. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15466 Posts
On August 03 2019 01:21 ShoCkeyy wrote: In all honesty, the way I see it is a government available insurance decreases the costs of private insurance, since it's technically now a competitor. If more people choose to use their MFA, then regular insurances are going to have to compete with the price. Currently insurance companies don't want that, so they lobby the hell out of congress to make sure it doesn't. The way I see it is: Insurance companies are just a shitty middle man. If all medical care was just covered directly by the government, the entire system would flow much more smoothly. Insurance existing means a company needs to profit enough to sustain itself by just sitting in the middle of medical payment. Eliminating insurance companies eliminates a drain on the whole thing. Imagine if all legitimate medical facilities just directly billed the government. It would eliminate an amazing amount of waste. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On August 03 2019 01:30 Mohdoo wrote: The way I see it is: Insurance companies are just a shitty middle man. If all medical care was just covered directly by the government, the entire system would flow much more smoothly. Insurance existing means a company needs to profit enough to sustain itself by just sitting in the middle of medical payment. Eliminating insurance companies eliminates a drain on the whole thing. Imagine if all legitimate medical facilities just directly billed the government. It would eliminate an amazing amount of waste. then you’ve got an impersonal bureaucracy deciding whether you can get medical treatment for your chronic lymes disease! | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15466 Posts
On August 03 2019 01:54 IgnE wrote: then you’ve got an impersonal bureaucracy deciding whether you can get medical treatment for your chronic lymes disease! I know you're being silly, but people really do think that. The truth is that no matter what we do, there will always be some entity looking to cut costs and make sure health treatment is efficient. The fundamental goal of government is to reduce the suffering of its citizens. The fundamental goal of industry is to make money and grow. We elect our government, but we can't elect our health insurance companies. They answer to share holders. Government answers to us. Supposedly. Or at least a hell of a lot more than insurance companies do. | ||
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brian
United States9616 Posts
edit: on average, with marginal but sometimes notable exception. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15466 Posts
On August 03 2019 02:03 brian wrote: i’d wager in reality the government answers to the health insurance lobby before it does its citizens. edit: on average, with marginal exception. Right, because insurance companies have siphoned an insane amount of money out of the health industry and have thus gained a bunch of power. Their influence over the government is an indictment against health insurance companies. The amount of power wielded by insurance companies is a direct measure of how much money our country wastes. Every dollar of insurance company profit is a waste. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On August 03 2019 01:54 IgnE wrote: then you’ve got an impersonal bureaucracy deciding whether you can get medical treatment for your chronic lymes disease! Not sure if your joking, but I have experienced healthcare for serious injuries and issues in both the US and Canada and my experience both in terms of quality and the speed in which the issue was attended to far exceed the disasters I had to deal with the Americna healthcare system Theres barely any serious issue even (dental and eye care if urgent can be covered in emergencies even when regular mandated care doesnt) thats ignored. I think what you are really saying is that American bureaucracy is shitty and that would result in shitty out comes but thats an America problem, the concept itself where profit seeking is eliminated from healthcare decisions is just far superior in both theory and practice. | ||
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brian
United States9616 Posts
which is by no means intended to say this particular ‘benefit’ (only for lack of a better word) outweighs all its failings. and of course the outcome in practice is far more important. well this turned out to be more pedantic than useful. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On August 02 2019 08:04 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: It’s all fake demand because it is debt driven and unsustainable. US federal deficit now 1.3 trillion a year or something crazy.So they can’t really raise rates anymore due to the interest payable on the debt being too high.They just lowered them again yesterday right? What's the point of your post? They were talking about consumer debt and consumerism culture, you are talking about federal debt. | ||
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brian
United States9616 Posts
On August 03 2019 02:06 Mohdoo wrote: Right, because insurance companies have siphoned an insane amount of money out of the health industry and have thus gained a bunch of power. Their influence over the government is an indictment against health insurance companies. The amount of power wielded by insurance companies is a direct measure of how much money our country wastes. Every dollar of insurance company profit is a waste. depends on who you ask, right? unfortunately the opinions that matter are paid to disagree with you. how crooked. revolutions are looking better and better every day. it is pretty fucking crazy though that such a significant amount of the money us citizens spend on healthcare is directly pocketed by campaigns. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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brian
United States9616 Posts
there was the opportunity that republicans would elect an anti establishment hero that would affect positive change, instead its a daily national embarrassment. one step forward, two steps back. of course some will still disagree with my characterization too, so there is that to contend with. but i do think you’re right, in the sense that the net affect of him ever using twitter is always to the republicans detriment. every day more GOP politicians turn to the dark side to distance themselves from the president. slowly but steadily the number of reps publicly rebuking him rises. this does make me think, perhaps there’s an actual strategy for the DNC to pick up here. if non-candidates like Cummings antagonize him enough, he will absolutely self destruct. the presidential candidate messaging has, and should be, to not talk trump. because you don’t play in the mud with pigs. but if other dems can get him covered in mud i’m wondering if that’s a winning play. earlier this year i would’ve said no. recently though, i’m definitely of the opposite opinion. | ||
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chocorush
694 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11405 Posts
On August 03 2019 03:40 chocorush wrote: I just wonder where this idea that the American healthcare system is really fast and effective because of the shittons of money we pay for it comes from. I never get specialist visits scheduled within a month, always have to call a million times to not get voice mail for some clinics, and waste hours trying to sort out pre-auths and billing to make sure I don't go bankrupt because of something my doctor ordered that they have no idea what it will cost. It's Stockholm syndrome. You have this system, and are basically stuck with it, so you choose to like it and assume that there is a reason that it is far more expensive than in basically any other country, beyond the fact that your system just sucks. So you come to the conclusion that other systems are worse. I think if every american got an actually fair experience with regards to health insurance in, for example, Germany, they would immediately agree that their system just sucks donkey balls. But they don't, so they only get the Fox spin, and the bias that their system must be good, because it is the american system, and america is the best. So everyone from other countries that tells them stuff that doesn't fit their idea of what it is like simply doesn't know how bad their systems actually are. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8960 Posts
Prescriptions are dirt cheap. Wait times are nonexistent for the most part. And everything is free for me. From chemotherapy to acl surgery. All I paid were for pills. | ||
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