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On June 28 2019 20:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:
This is chilling. The fact that the POTUS discusses how great silencing the press would be with a dictator that jails and kills opposing journalists is absolutely appalling.
Why don’t republicans react on shit like that? It should be way beyond partisanship. I just don’t get those people.
Because a lot of Republicans would love it if it happened?
It isn't at the point where most people would do anything, but if they heard about journalists getting shot there's a lot of Republicans who'd be happy to hear it, so long as they were from left-leaning news outlets.
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On June 28 2019 21:18 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:02 GreenHorizons wrote:
EDIT: Wouldn't "Americans" be an accurate descriptor for peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina? Accurate but not useful, because "peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina" isn't what "americans" is used for in almost all contexts. It's the trouble with words being able to carry multiple meanings, which is most words in most languagues.
I think it's worth investigating why US citizens feel entitled to the exclusive ownership of the term "Americans" and why those generally excluded, might not want the title.
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Kamala seems to be going the Trump route in that she'll just say both things (on healthcare again here) and let people believe which one they want to.
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On June 28 2019 21:27 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:18 Sbrubbles wrote:On June 28 2019 21:02 GreenHorizons wrote:
EDIT: Wouldn't "Americans" be an accurate descriptor for peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina? Accurate but not useful, because "peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina" isn't what "americans" is used for in almost all contexts. It's the trouble with words being able to carry multiple meanings, which is most words in most languagues. I think it's worth investigating why US citizens feel entitled to the exclusive ownership of the term "Americans" and why those generally excluded, might not want the title. ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Kamala seems to be going the Trump route in that she'll just say both things (on healthcare again here) and let people believe which one they want to. https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1144576372473565185
What would you propose we call each other/ourselves instead? United Statesians?
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Norway28781 Posts
USAians has had some traction with leftists around here, at least i heard it occasionally 10+ years ago.
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On June 28 2019 21:33 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 28 2019 21:18 Sbrubbles wrote:On June 28 2019 21:02 GreenHorizons wrote:
EDIT: Wouldn't "Americans" be an accurate descriptor for peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina? Accurate but not useful, because "peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina" isn't what "americans" is used for in almost all contexts. It's the trouble with words being able to carry multiple meanings, which is most words in most languagues. I think it's worth investigating why US citizens feel entitled to the exclusive ownership of the term "Americans" and why those generally excluded, might not want the title. ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Kamala seems to be going the Trump route in that she'll just say both things (on healthcare again here) and let people believe which one they want to. https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1144576372473565185 What would you propose we call each other/ourselves instead? United Statesians?
USian is an acceptable alternative for which exclusivity claims wouldn't require stripping the word of it's geographical meaning.
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That's dumb. Just plain dumb.
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On June 28 2019 21:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
That's dumb. Just plain dumb.
With bulletproof reasoning like that I don't know how to counter it...
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"Etats-Uniens" exists in french but it sounds really weird. This is the same kind of logic that calls for West Asia instead of the Middle East, considering that "the Middle East" is quite eurocentric. I mean, it's certainly true; but I'm not sure it matters as much as some people think it does.
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On June 28 2019 21:46 Nebuchad wrote:
"Etats-Uniens" exists in french but it sounds really weird. This is the same kind of logic that calls for West Asia instead of the Middle East, considering that "the Middle East" is quite eurocentric. I mean, it's certainly true; but I'm not sure it matters as much as some people think it does.
I can't speak to the comparison but in the Americas it matters quite a bit. Many people labeled as "illegal immigrants" have ties to the land going back long before the "Americans" (Europeans) that came along relatively recently.
It's not a cure all or anything, but the ease with which USians (and Westerners in general) assert ownership over land, space, words, etc... is certainly a critical part of the overall problem.
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On June 28 2019 21:51 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:46 Nebuchad wrote:
"Etats-Uniens" exists in french but it sounds really weird. This is the same kind of logic that calls for West Asia instead of the Middle East, considering that "the Middle East" is quite eurocentric. I mean, it's certainly true; but I'm not sure it matters as much as some people think it does. I can't speak to the comparison but in the Americas it matters quite a bit. Many people labeled as "illegal immigrants" have ties to the land going back long before the "Americans" (Europeans) that came along relatively recently. It's not a cure all or anything, but the ease with which USians (and Westerners in general) assert ownership over land, space, words, etc... is certainly a critical part of the overall problem.
Examples please.
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On June 28 2019 21:52 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 28 2019 21:46 Nebuchad wrote:
"Etats-Uniens" exists in french but it sounds really weird. This is the same kind of logic that calls for West Asia instead of the Middle East, considering that "the Middle East" is quite eurocentric. I mean, it's certainly true; but I'm not sure it matters as much as some people think it does. I can't speak to the comparison but in the Americas it matters quite a bit. Many people labeled as "illegal immigrants" have ties to the land going back long before the "Americans" (Europeans) that came along relatively recently. It's not a cure all or anything, but the ease with which USians (and Westerners in general) assert ownership over land, space, words, etc... is certainly a critical part of the overall problem. Examples please.
You know Texas, California, etc was Mexico right?
To be a bit more specific here's an image.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On June 28 2019 21:45 GreenHorizons wrote:With bulletproof reasoning like that I don't know how to counter it...
Don't underestimate rule of cool. USians does not sound cool, it sounds dumb, therefore it's a bad term. Americans is fine, and it's engraved enough into our vocabulary that everyone knows you're not talking about Mexicans or Canadians.
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I've never heard anyone outside the US wanting to be called an American.
But they I get the feeling this is less of a serious discussion and more of a 'how do you like it when someone takes your identity' thing.
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On June 28 2019 21:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:52 Gahlo wrote:On June 28 2019 21:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 28 2019 21:46 Nebuchad wrote:
"Etats-Uniens" exists in french but it sounds really weird. This is the same kind of logic that calls for West Asia instead of the Middle East, considering that "the Middle East" is quite eurocentric. I mean, it's certainly true; but I'm not sure it matters as much as some people think it does. I can't speak to the comparison but in the Americas it matters quite a bit. Many people labeled as "illegal immigrants" have ties to the land going back long before the "Americans" (Europeans) that came along relatively recently. It's not a cure all or anything, but the ease with which USians (and Westerners in general) assert ownership over land, space, words, etc... is certainly a critical part of the overall problem. Examples please. You know Texas was Mexico right?
Yeah, but I'm not about to call myself English.
On June 28 2019 21:55 Jockmcplop wrote:
I've never heard anyone outside the US wanting to be called an American.
I've seen it a few times, but that's largely due to a language clash where they're ESL and "American" is a more open term in their native language.
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On June 28 2019 21:54 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 28 2019 21:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
That's dumb. Just plain dumb. With bulletproof reasoning like that I don't know how to counter it... Don't underestimate rule of cool. USians does not sound cool, it sounds dumb, therefore it's a bad term. Americans is fine, and it's engraved enough into our vocabulary that everyone knows you're not talking about Mexicans or Canadians.
Problem being this very discussion is spurred by the use of Americans to describe non-US citizens.
On June 28 2019 21:55 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 28 2019 21:52 Gahlo wrote:On June 28 2019 21:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 28 2019 21:46 Nebuchad wrote:
"Etats-Uniens" exists in french but it sounds really weird. This is the same kind of logic that calls for West Asia instead of the Middle East, considering that "the Middle East" is quite eurocentric. I mean, it's certainly true; but I'm not sure it matters as much as some people think it does. I can't speak to the comparison but in the Americas it matters quite a bit. Many people labeled as "illegal immigrants" have ties to the land going back long before the "Americans" (Europeans) that came along relatively recently. It's not a cure all or anything, but the ease with which USians (and Westerners in general) assert ownership over land, space, words, etc... is certainly a critical part of the overall problem. Examples please. You know Texas was Mexico right? Yeah, but I'm not about to call myself English.
Okay? So go with USian?
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On June 28 2019 21:27 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:18 Sbrubbles wrote:On June 28 2019 21:02 GreenHorizons wrote:
EDIT: Wouldn't "Americans" be an accurate descriptor for peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina? Accurate but not useful, because "peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina" isn't what "americans" is used for in almost all contexts. It's the trouble with words being able to carry multiple meanings, which is most words in most languagues. I think it's worth investigating why US citizens feel entitled to the exclusive ownership of the term "Americans" and why those generally excluded, might not want the title.
"American" is really the only good citizen name for the country name being USA. The country name being USA I would chalk up to historical accident (aka, the US founding fathers couldn't think of anything better).
Edit: "Estadunidences" is actually used in portuguese and doesn't actually sound the worst, but that's outside of the discussion.
It's too bad because we lose the grouping category "americans", but I'm not sure this grouping category is that useful to begin with given the fundamental differences between nations of the Americas. More relevant categories might be Spanish/Portuguese/English America, South/North/Central America, or w/e. I personally have no need to call myself "american".
In a few decades, depending on how things go in the EU, the same thing might start happening there. Could be that new generation start refering people from the EU as "europeans", to the detriment of non-EU european nations. Well, I don't think this is really probable because some measure of nationalism will always live on, but it's a possibility.
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On June 28 2019 21:57 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 28 2019 21:18 Sbrubbles wrote:On June 28 2019 21:02 GreenHorizons wrote:
EDIT: Wouldn't "Americans" be an accurate descriptor for peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina? Accurate but not useful, because "peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina" isn't what "americans" is used for in almost all contexts. It's the trouble with words being able to carry multiple meanings, which is most words in most languagues. I think it's worth investigating why US citizens feel entitled to the exclusive ownership of the term "Americans" and why those generally excluded, might not want the title. "American" is really the only good citizen name for the country name being USA. The country name being USA I would chalk up to historical accident (aka, the US founding fathers couldn't think of anything better). Edit: "Estadunidences" is actually used in portuguese and doesn't actually sound the worst. It's too bad because we lose the grouping category "americans", but I'm not sure this grouping category is that useful to begin with given the fundamental differences between nations of the Americas. More relevant categories might be Spanish/Portuguese/English America, South/North/Central America, or w/e. I personally have no need to call myself "american". In a few decades, depending on how things go in the EU, the same thing might start happening there. Could be that new generation start refering people from the EU as "europeans", to the detriment of non-EU european nations. Well, I don't think this is really probable because some measure of nationalism will always live on, but it's a possibility.
The entitlement really does seem to boil down to nothing of substance, but rather convenience, superficial appeals, and basically whining that "I don't wanna change".
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I am a bit too much online and "European" pretty much means "White" to me. And not in the harmless way.
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On June 28 2019 22:04 Nebuchad wrote:
I am a bit too much online and "European" pretty much means "White" to me. And not in the harmless way.
Outside of this forum I don't even use "white" any more, I use colonizer, settler, European, etc..
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On June 28 2019 22:05 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 22:04 Nebuchad wrote:
I am a bit too much online and "European" pretty much means "White" to me. And not in the harmless way. Outside of this forum I don't even use "white" any more, I use colonizer, settler, European, etc..
Wouldn't that be making us unduely taking exclusive use of colonizing/settling? We aren't the only ones to do it.
On June 28 2019 22:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 21:57 Sbrubbles wrote:On June 28 2019 21:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 28 2019 21:18 Sbrubbles wrote:On June 28 2019 21:02 GreenHorizons wrote:
EDIT: Wouldn't "Americans" be an accurate descriptor for peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina? Accurate but not useful, because "peoples anywhere from Alaska to Argentina" isn't what "americans" is used for in almost all contexts. It's the trouble with words being able to carry multiple meanings, which is most words in most languagues. I think it's worth investigating why US citizens feel entitled to the exclusive ownership of the term "Americans" and why those generally excluded, might not want the title. "American" is really the only good citizen name for the country name being USA. The country name being USA I would chalk up to historical accident (aka, the US founding fathers couldn't think of anything better). Edit: "Estadunidences" is actually used in portuguese and doesn't actually sound the worst. It's too bad because we lose the grouping category "americans", but I'm not sure this grouping category is that useful to begin with given the fundamental differences between nations of the Americas. More relevant categories might be Spanish/Portuguese/English America, South/North/Central America, or w/e. I personally have no need to call myself "american". In a few decades, depending on how things go in the EU, the same thing might start happening there. Could be that new generation start refering people from the EU as "europeans", to the detriment of non-EU european nations. Well, I don't think this is really probable because some measure of nationalism will always live on, but it's a possibility. The entitlement really does seem to boil down to nothing of substance, but rather convenience, superficial appeals, and basically whining that "I don't wanna change".
And if "American" is loosed up that's nothing more than conceding to the superficial appeal of Mexicans that had stake in land before the US took it.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Mexico_1821.PNG/1024px-Mexico_1821.PNG)
