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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 14

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

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Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 21 2018 20:19 GMT
#261
It isn’t about mental health entirely. The profile for the folks who do this things always have similar through lines. Failure that is followed by a perception that they have no future, economic or otherwise. Their race and background doesn’t really matter. Some of them become bombers, others become skin heads. Some join gangs. There is no excuse for violence like this, but people need to be honest that this guy didn’t grow up wanting to blow himself up in his car.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-21 20:25:24
March 21 2018 20:24 GMT
#262


The plot thickens (it's already pretty thick, but we're approaching pitch drop levels of viscosity). Sessions says he didn't know about the investigation, though.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
March 21 2018 20:28 GMT
#263
On March 22 2018 05:24 ticklishmusic wrote:
https://twitter.com/MLevineReports/status/976550709209550848

The plot thickens (it's already pretty thick, but we're approaching pitch drop levels of viscosity). Sessions says he didn't know about the investigation, though.


Ask yourself, how many times has Jeff Sessions testified under oath in the last 1-2 years that he didn't know something? How many times was he lying? Based on his uninterrupted string of perjuries, I conclude from Sessions statement that 'I didn't know' that Sessions had documentary proof that he was being investigated prior to participating in firing McCabe.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 21 2018 20:33 GMT
#264
I just read that and the headline makes it seem worse than it is. A couple senators sent a formal request to the FBI to confirm that Sessions didn’t lie under oath. McCabe opened an investigation at their request to look into it. Nothing happened, so I have to assume there was insufficient evidence and it was dropped.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
March 21 2018 20:37 GMT
#265
Yeah, the headline is bad but the content is just (We opened investigation, nothing seemed to be a problem, we closed it)

It is good to know that the FBI checks these things and will close something if nothing is found though.
Something witty
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8000 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-21 21:10:33
March 21 2018 21:10 GMT
#266
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/20/1750614/-Part-three-of-Cambridge-Analytica-report-makes-a-liar-out-of-everyone-on-the-Trump-campaign

Another dropped bomb.

.. Mr Turnbull described how the company created the “Defeat Crooked Hilary” brand of attack ads, that were funded by the Make America Number 1 super-PAC and watched more than 30 million times during the campaign.

In one exchange Alexander Nix revealed the company used a secret self-destructing email system that leaves no trace. He said: “No-one knows we have it, and secondly we set our… emails with a self-destruct timer… So you send them and after they’ve been read, two hours later, they disappear. There’s no evidence, there’s no paper trail, there’s nothing.”


Apparently there are 5 parts total. So 2 more to go
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 21 2018 21:15 GMT
#267
2018 is super charged with rocket fuel. I’m not sure we can make it to November. Love that they straight up violated the law by working with the super PAC they were also running. Perfect. And I bet they provided all this data directly to the Trump camp too, which is a violation election laws. It is so great they are bragging about it. Bring on the subpoenas. Get Mercer before congress.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15473 Posts
March 21 2018 21:20 GMT
#268
On March 22 2018 06:10 Excludos wrote:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/20/1750614/-Part-three-of-Cambridge-Analytica-report-makes-a-liar-out-of-everyone-on-the-Trump-campaign

Another dropped bomb.

Show nested quote +
.. Mr Turnbull described how the company created the “Defeat Crooked Hilary” brand of attack ads, that were funded by the Make America Number 1 super-PAC and watched more than 30 million times during the campaign.

Show nested quote +
In one exchange Alexander Nix revealed the company used a secret self-destructing email system that leaves no trace. He said: “No-one knows we have it, and secondly we set our… emails with a self-destruct timer… So you send them and after they’ve been read, two hours later, they disappear. There’s no evidence, there’s no paper trail, there’s nothing.”


Apparently there are 5 parts total. So 2 more to go

Please let part 5 be: "turns out their emails didn't disappear"
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-21 21:23:23
March 21 2018 21:22 GMT
#269
The problem with that is congressional Republicans don't care and this would probably burn a lot of them. Read somewhere there was a lukewarm response from many Republican lawmakers.

Only choice is to take back the house.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
March 21 2018 21:25 GMT
#270
So are these stories alleging that CA, as the Trump campaign's digital strategy arm, put out fake news?
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4682 Posts
March 21 2018 21:37 GMT
#271
Two weeks ago, everyone knew CA was massively over-hyped and made most of it's money by selling itself well. This hasn't changed, except now we know they are shady actors to boot (although their FB data gathering was hardly new). This looks more like it is just the latest "why we lost" excuse.

In spoiler is a thread by a NYT reporter talking about this:

+ Show Spoiler +






"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-21 21:44:11
March 21 2018 21:43 GMT
#272
Except for all the potential crime and violation of election laws. All of that is new.

I find it interesting that you take the approach that we are saying “This is why we lost” when no one in the thread is saying that. It is like you want to drag this discussion back to the familiar ground of re-litigating the election results.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States22991 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-21 21:49:55
March 21 2018 21:49 GMT
#273
I think the story that fits both is the whole politicians doing the bidding of billionaires for access to campaign cash.

That seems to be the underlying theme between multiple campaigns and also explains Trump's early hesitancy. CA/Trump just got caught.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 21 2018 21:56 GMT
#274
On March 22 2018 06:37 Introvert wrote:
Two weeks ago, everyone knew CA was massively over-hyped and made most of it's money by selling itself well. This hasn't changed, except now we know they are shady actors to boot (although their FB data gathering was hardly new). This looks more like it is just the latest "why we lost" excuse.

In spoiler is a thread by a NYT reporter talking about this:

+ Show Spoiler +

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/975756418128187393

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/975821613001297926

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/976117384854540288

They were lightweights compared to Obama's 2012 operation, but unethically duped their users and FaceBook for the data use. You put all this stuff online for free, and facebook sells it. That's the business model.



But they you have these losers, one example below, that very explicitly want 2016 to not be enough fellow Americans picking Trump over Clinton






It's definitely a story, don't get me wrong. I've seen people here react with a sober take on it (Hallelujah). It's mostly outlets like Vox and the Guardian (i think one story in NYT too) that are more transparently chalking up another tally in the column of Bad Things That Made My Gal Lose That Weren't Her Fault.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21528 Posts
March 21 2018 22:02 GMT
#275
One big difference between CA and Obama might be how they got the data. That's how this story initially opened up after all.

I agree that using Facebook data to target ads is in and of itself nothing new or bad, and that's not what keeping CA in the news either. Its all the other potentially shady stuff surrounding it.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8000 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-21 22:09:19
March 21 2018 22:06 GMT
#276
On March 22 2018 06:37 Introvert wrote:
Two weeks ago, everyone knew CA was massively over-hyped and made most of it's money by selling itself well. This hasn't changed, except now we know they are shady actors to boot (although their FB data gathering was hardly new). This looks more like it is just the latest "why we lost" excuse.

In spoiler is a thread by a NYT reporter talking about this:

+ Show Spoiler +

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/975756418128187393

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/975821613001297926

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/976117384854540288


This is the definition of strawman. Don't.. Literally no one has even mentioned the election results. This is a firm breaking the law on behalf of Donald Trump and his team by violating the privacy of millions upon millions of people. You should be outraged by this yourself, no matter where on the spectrum you lie. I think that deserves a little bit more than "Oh those silly libruls are excusing their loss again"
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8000 Posts
March 21 2018 22:12 GMT
#277
Also love how Facebook is getting their way overdue comeuppance from their shady and unethical business practices. The share prices are plummeting.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4682 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-21 22:20:44
March 21 2018 22:20 GMT
#278
On March 22 2018 07:06 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2018 06:37 Introvert wrote:
Two weeks ago, everyone knew CA was massively over-hyped and made most of it's money by selling itself well. This hasn't changed, except now we know they are shady actors to boot (although their FB data gathering was hardly new). This looks more like it is just the latest "why we lost" excuse.

In spoiler is a thread by a NYT reporter talking about this:

+ Show Spoiler +

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/975756418128187393

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/975821613001297926

https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/976117384854540288


This is the definition of strawman. Don't.. Literally no one has even mentioned the election results. This is a firm breaking the law on behalf of Donald Trump and his team by violating the privacy of millions upon millions of people. You should be outraged by this yourself, no matter where on the spectrum you lie. I think that deserves a little bit more than "Oh those silly libruls are excusing their loss again"


Danglars is right that this thread has been better than elsewhere, but the story is still receiving coverage not proportionate to it's importance. The privacy thing is more important than whatever happened for the Trump campaign or, as people are now talking about, Brexit.

It's good to see criticism of FB in here as well but let's not pretend this story would have nearly the impact it does if the many millions had their privacy breached by some other corporation for some other cause. If they aren't effective then the only angle should be the privacy angle.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-21 22:55:14
March 21 2018 22:39 GMT
#279
I am pretty sure but not completely certain that "targeted sharing" is very different from having access to harvested Facebook data. And I'm not sure we know that they weren't effective, despite there being a NYT reporter who says so. What I really want to know is whether they peddled fake news as part of their targeting.

Edit: It looks like the Obama campaign had access to friends lists, similar to CA. So the difference I guess is that CA had access to political survey results conducted as part of a university research project, then resold in an unethical way. Another difference is that the Obama campaign wasn't sending targeted ads based on a psychological profile. Instead they were trying to get people to share stories about Obama. The thing about CA is that they're involved in military "psy ops" campaigns. So the big difference here is the idea of psychological manipulation.

[T]he Obama team had a solution in place: a Facebook application that will transform the way campaigns are conducted in the future...

[T]he more than 1 million Obama backers who signed up for the app gave the campaign permission to look at their Facebook friend lists. In an instant, the campaign had a way to see the hidden young voters. Roughly 85% of those without a listed phone number could be found in the uploaded friend lists. What’s more, Facebook offered an ideal way to reach them. “People don’t trust campaigns. They don’t even trust media organizations,” says Goff. “Who do they trust? Their friends.”

The campaign called this effort targeted sharing. And in those final weeks of the campaign, the team blitzed the supporters who had signed up for the app with requests to share specific online content with specific friends simply by clicking a button. More than 600,000 supporters followed through with more than 5 million contacts, asking their friends to register to vote, give money, vote or look at a video designed to change their mind. A geek squad in Chicago created models from vast data sets to find the best approaches for each potential voter. “We are not just sending you a banner ad,” explains Dan Wagner, the Obama campaign’s 29-year-old head of analytics, who helped oversee the project. “We are giving you relevant information from your friends.”

Early tests of the system found statistically significant changes in voter behavior. People whose friends sent them requests to register to vote and to vote early, for example, were more likely to do so than similar potential voters who were not contacted. That confirmed a trend already noted in political-science literature: online social networks have the power to change voting behavior.


swampland.time.com
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 21 2018 22:57 GMT
#280
Again, this discussion isn't about the results of the election or if votes changed. Trump won. He got the proper number of votes in given states to get to 270 electoral votes.

But the company the Mercer's hired for him after they bailed out his campaign in a UK company. If they provided him with assistance and data they collected, that is a violation of election laws. CA coordinating the Trump campaign effort with a Super PAC they also ran is a violation of campaign finance law.

And CA was actively seeking out young, white conservatives to would respond well to racism and authoritarianism back in 2014. Steve Bannon was building a voter base to push against Republicans and then running Breitbart to stoke those flames. And Steve Bannon ran Trumps election campaign after they teamed up with Mercer and CA.

There is no doubt Trump won the election. We are just getting a better picture of the tools he and Bannon used to do it. Some xenophobia, racism, fear, and a flagrant disregard for election laws all funded by some billionaires.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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