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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On March 22 2018 11:23 Plansix wrote:
Danlgars, I just love it cite things I did not say and then make arguments against the things I did not say. I admire the consistency you that you use this style of argument. I cite that Bannon was actively courting and promoted racist views and you go off on your only little safari about Hilary Clinton. I used the word racist, so you go right back to claiming this thread thinks half of Trump voters are racist.
And then you go right back to the Facebook data argument and social media. It is like you didn't even read the last few pages of discussion about the CEO of CA admitting they they dodges campaign fiance laws and worked with a super PAC while also working for Trump. That is illegal. It is like you didn't read that CA is a UK company and cannot provide material assistance to a presidential campaign. That is illegal.
It is like we are not even here. You came here with your prepared arguments that you collected over the day and by god you are going to make them. And there is not a damn thing anyone in this thread can do about it. And who am I to stand in the way of a man on a singular mission?
You came in stating how much you disliked bringing Obama’s use of data mining into the conversation. I just don’t find your focus al that interesting in this context. Naturally, replying to your replies to me is going to focus on what you found amiss, not on the topic as a whole. No safari here,
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The "but obama did the same" story will work pretty well with the base. Its a simple story to say that both campaigns used targeted analytics and its a lot harder to tell how or in what ways they were different. The best thing to do is to move on and change the narrative to CA being an example of the abuse of the system as a whole. Nothing about 2016 will help the left from the primary to the general.
I think the greater controversy is in the ways that social media monetizes our data and how they are used in politics.
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Well the CEO did admit on camera to flagrantly avoiding US laws, regulations and undermining a democratic election in Nigeria, all while taking credit for Trump's win and saying there is no paper trail. That they are a UK company and had not buisness running presidential campaign and providing that campaign with material support, which is illegal. The guy who built CA's systems said Bannon used it find and cultivate people who would respond well to racist dog whistles. And Bannon was doing this in 2014 while running a "new agency" that published a lot of racist dog whistle articles.
So yeah, I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you would realize why the data mining isn't what people are talking about. Violating Facebook's TOS is kinda the least shitty news that has come out of CA recently.
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not to mention the entire thing with blackmail and hookers. that part is so lurid as to be almost unbelievable, though,
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On March 22 2018 11:54 ticklishmusic wrote:
not to mention the entire thing with blackmail and hookers. that part is so lurid as to be almost unbelievable, though,
Why? Most of the election (and Brexit) etc hinged on various degrees of bullshit and lies that the voting public chose to believe, bit of casual fake blackmail or entrapment is well within the realms of belief.
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"Would you believe that Trump..."
In the words of John Oliver:
"Whatever you were going to finish that sentence with, the answer is yes"
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The NYTimes is remarkably empathetic with violent white men.
They also conveniently leave out the connections between the victims that I showed yesterday:
+ Show Spoiler +I find it interesting none of the articles mention that police initially suspected homicide, switched to suspicious death, then back to homicide. Very few mention that the first two victims families knew each other through church:
The two Texans killed by package bombs in Austin, Texas, this month were members of prominent African-American families and knew each other, the local NAACP president said Wednesday.
“They have a long history and go to the same church,” Nelson Linder said of the two victims, Stephen House and Draylen Mason, in an interview with NBC News.
Sourceor that the third victim may have also been connected: East Austin resident Erica Mason, whose neighbor was injured in one of three recent package explosions that have gripped the city, talked to investigators Wednesday about whether she was related to the Mason family that was targeted in at least one of the bombings.
Mason, who is from Iowa, isn’t related to the Mason family that is prominent in Austin’s African-American community. But police have developed a theory that the bomber may have mistaken her for another member of the family. SourceThat sure looks like a pattern to me. Not some depressed nerdy/godly white guy taking some rando's with him.
As to why he did it, they have an idea but are choosing not to share it:
A 25-minute confession, left on the suspect’s phone, in which he attempted to describe his odyssey. “It is the outcry of a very challenged young man talking about challenges in his personal life that led him to this point,” the Austin police chief, Brian Manley, said.
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On March 22 2018 20:28 GreenHorizons wrote:The NYTimes is remarkably empathetic with violent white men. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/976532172344561665They also conveniently leave out the connections between the victims that I showed yesterday: + Show Spoiler +I find it interesting none of the articles mention that police initially suspected homicide, switched to suspicious death, then back to homicide. Very few mention that the first two victims families knew each other through church:
The two Texans killed by package bombs in Austin, Texas, this month were members of prominent African-American families and knew each other, the local NAACP president said Wednesday.
“They have a long history and go to the same church,” Nelson Linder said of the two victims, Stephen House and Draylen Mason, in an interview with NBC News.
Sourceor that the third victim may have also been connected: East Austin resident Erica Mason, whose neighbor was injured in one of three recent package explosions that have gripped the city, talked to investigators Wednesday about whether she was related to the Mason family that was targeted in at least one of the bombings.
Mason, who is from Iowa, isn’t related to the Mason family that is prominent in Austin’s African-American community. But police have developed a theory that the bomber may have mistaken her for another member of the family. SourceThat sure looks like a pattern to me. Not some depressed nerdy/godly white guy taking some rando's with him. As to why he did it, they have an idea but are choosing not to share it: Show nested quote + A 25-minute confession, left on the suspect’s phone, in which he attempted to describe his odyssey. “It is the outcry of a very challenged young man talking about challenges in his personal life that led him to this point,” the Austin police chief, Brian Manley, said.
I don't see this as NYT being empathetic and more as them reporting on how other people saw him. If "Donna Sebastian Harp, who had known the family for nearly 18 years" had stated that he was an absolute asshat who spewed crap to everyone he met, I'm sure they would have reported on that as well.
As for connection between victims, that is for the police to report on, which they probably won't until they are beyond certain about it.
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After the tweet exchange between Biden and Trump, I wanna see them duke it out mano a mano, though Trump could prolly body slam Biden unto submission.
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On March 22 2018 20:35 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2018 20:28 GreenHorizons wrote:The NYTimes is remarkably empathetic with violent white men. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/976532172344561665They also conveniently leave out the connections between the victims that I showed yesterday: + Show Spoiler +I find it interesting none of the articles mention that police initially suspected homicide, switched to suspicious death, then back to homicide. Very few mention that the first two victims families knew each other through church:
The two Texans killed by package bombs in Austin, Texas, this month were members of prominent African-American families and knew each other, the local NAACP president said Wednesday.
“They have a long history and go to the same church,” Nelson Linder said of the two victims, Stephen House and Draylen Mason, in an interview with NBC News.
Sourceor that the third victim may have also been connected: East Austin resident Erica Mason, whose neighbor was injured in one of three recent package explosions that have gripped the city, talked to investigators Wednesday about whether she was related to the Mason family that was targeted in at least one of the bombings.
Mason, who is from Iowa, isn’t related to the Mason family that is prominent in Austin’s African-American community. But police have developed a theory that the bomber may have mistaken her for another member of the family. SourceThat sure looks like a pattern to me. Not some depressed nerdy/godly white guy taking some rando's with him. As to why he did it, they have an idea but are choosing not to share it: A 25-minute confession, left on the suspect’s phone, in which he attempted to describe his odyssey. “It is the outcry of a very challenged young man talking about challenges in his personal life that led him to this point,” the Austin police chief, Brian Manley, said. I don't see this as NYT being empathetic and more as them reporting on how other people saw him. If "Donna Sebastian Harp, who had known the family for nearly 18 years" had stated that he was an absolute asshat who spewed crap to everyone he met, I'm sure they would have reported on that as well. As for connection between victims, that is for the police to report on, which they probably won't until they are beyond certain about it.
I figured that would be the case, but here's some context:
The first one is for someone who murdered 2 people and injured others in cold blood. The second for the gunshot victim of an overzealous neighbor.
On March 22 2018 20:38 farvacola wrote:
After the tweet exchange between Biden and Trump, I wanna see them duke it out mano a mano, though Trump could prolly body slam Biden unto submission.
Biden might be the only person creepier (inappropriate touching of women) than Donald Trump. We have video of him clearly making women and young girls incredibly uncomfortable with how he touches them, not just a tape of him talking about it. Democrats would do well to abandon Biden and never look back.
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The one on the right is also almost a full month after Trayvon's murder whereas the left is mere days since the killer's death.
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On March 22 2018 20:41 farvacola wrote:
The one on the right is also almost a full month after Trayvon's murder whereas the left is mere days since the killer's death.
I don't think that matters?
I can find more examples if people think this isn't a thing. We can also go back to the empathetic Nazi profile too.
It's not just the NYT either...
A 25-minute confession, left on the suspect’s phone, in which he attempted to describe his odyssey. “It is the outcry of a very challenged young man talking about challenges in his personal life that led him to this point,” the Austin police chief, Brian Manley, said.
What 'challenges' lead someone to hand placing bombs on two black people's porch who happen to know each other through church and a third who police think the bomber thought was related?
The challenge that comes to my mind is an inability to deal with the ever so slowly waning of white supremacy being replaced with economic superiority and personally getting left behind.
At some point we're going to have to talk about what is radicalizing these young white men and resulting in them shooting up innocent people in schools, churches and movie theaters and now hand delivering bombs to people's porches.
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It does matter because the timing of the Trayvon article lines up almost exactly with the amount of time it'd take to process autopsy tox results. I'm not saying there isn't a bias in terms of how this stuff is reported, I'm saying you picked a poor example that opens up a legitimate line of criticism to attack, as is the case with a lot of hastily slopped together Twitter inflammations.
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On March 22 2018 20:55 farvacola wrote:
It does matter because the timing of the Trayvon article lines up almost exactly with the amount of time it'd take to process autopsy tox results. I'm not saying there isn't a bias in terms of how this stuff is reported, I'm saying you picked a poor example that opens up a legitimate line of criticism to attack.
Except it doesn't, because it's not about tox results, it's about getting suspended from school...
Doesn't have anything to do with anything anyway even if he had cannabis in his system other than besmirch him with no relevance to the event, except maybe he wouldn't have risked walking around his own neighborhood at night to get some skittles.
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Fair enough, but having looked at the article in question instead of just the tweet, it would seem fair to allocate blame to NYT's twitter more than the article itself. It can be found here.
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On March 22 2018 21:01 farvacola wrote:
Fair enough, but having looked at the article in question instead of just the tweet, it would seem fair to allocate blame to NYT's twitter more than the article itself.
No question the NYT's twitter is generally worse than the article they promote. It's not a coincidence, since they know most people won't actually read it.
It's not like the twitter isn't part of the NYT and under their supervision. As such, longstanding patterns indicated by the age of the Trayvon tweet, the empathetic nazi profile, and more gives me confidence in not trying to lay this at the feet of some intern, but something brought to the editorial/management staff and dismissed as unimportant.
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On March 22 2018 21:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2018 21:01 farvacola wrote:
Fair enough, but having looked at the article in question instead of just the tweet, it would seem fair to allocate blame to NYT's twitter more than the article itself. No question the NYT's twitter is generally worse than the article they promote. It's not a coincidence, since they know most people won't actually read it. It's not like the twitter isn't part of the NYT and under their supervision. As such, longstanding patterns indicated by the age of the Trayvon tweet, the empathetic nazi profile, and more gives me confidence in not trying to lay this at the feet of some intern, but something brought to the editorial/management staff and dismissed as unimportant.
Actually I believe they see twitter's job to do advertising. And screamy headlines bring in the clicks. Seeing tabloid tactics from respectable papers is sad, but given how the squeeze is on all newspapers to make money *somehow*, it's not surprising.
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On March 22 2018 21:16 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2018 21:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 22 2018 21:01 farvacola wrote:
Fair enough, but having looked at the article in question instead of just the tweet, it would seem fair to allocate blame to NYT's twitter more than the article itself. No question the NYT's twitter is generally worse than the article they promote. It's not a coincidence, since they know most people won't actually read it. It's not like the twitter isn't part of the NYT and under their supervision. As such, longstanding patterns indicated by the age of the Trayvon tweet, the empathetic nazi profile, and more gives me confidence in not trying to lay this at the feet of some intern, but something brought to the editorial/management staff and dismissed as unimportant. Actually I believe they see twitter's job to do advertising. And screamy headlines bring in the clicks. Seeing tabloid tactics from respectable papers is sad, but given how the squeeze is on all newspapers to make money *somehow*, it's not surprising.
Remember how people were all up in arms about CA using racism to promote their ideology, this is the NYT using racism for profit and that's being used as an unfortunate justification rather than being pointed out as deplorable from an allegedly respected outlet.
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On March 22 2018 21:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2018 21:16 Acrofales wrote:On March 22 2018 21:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 22 2018 21:01 farvacola wrote:
Fair enough, but having looked at the article in question instead of just the tweet, it would seem fair to allocate blame to NYT's twitter more than the article itself. No question the NYT's twitter is generally worse than the article they promote. It's not a coincidence, since they know most people won't actually read it. It's not like the twitter isn't part of the NYT and under their supervision. As such, longstanding patterns indicated by the age of the Trayvon tweet, the empathetic nazi profile, and more gives me confidence in not trying to lay this at the feet of some intern, but something brought to the editorial/management staff and dismissed as unimportant. Actually I believe they see twitter's job to do advertising. And screamy headlines bring in the clicks. Seeing tabloid tactics from respectable papers is sad, but given how the squeeze is on all newspapers to make money *somehow*, it's not surprising. Remember how people were all up in arms about CA using racism to promote their ideology, this is the NYT using racism for profit and that's being used as an unfortunate justification rather than being pointed out as deplorable from an allegedly respected outlet.
Except that I'm not sure it is racism. It's a screamy headline about the new findings (the toxicology report). I am not saying they aren't biased. I believe they probably are. I just don't think the world is black or white. And the NYT's behaviour here is slightly grey, and CA's behaviour is black as pitch.
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While the tox report came out around the time of that article, the article itself doesn't mention it and is instead about the shooter's story and Trayvon's background.
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EPT
