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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On March 16 2019 06:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 06:13 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 04:43 youngjiddle wrote:
Above all else, the NZ shooter's motive was to ignite tensions and push us towards civil war as stated in his manifesto. Predictably, everyone seems to be taking the bait and that's not sitting well with me. "Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:On March 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm used to the rightwing having bad takes on terrorism but these are downright insane Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said. And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that. I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person acting like e.g. Danglars is concerning this specific act of terrorism or are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person using the same arguments following another terror-attack? Because the first request seems to utterly miss the point and the second request seems very head-in-the-sand unless you really haven't paid any kind of attention to lorries driving through Christmas markets, shootings in theaters, and US republican senators getting shot at baseball practice and the ensuing aftermath. There were left-leaning people specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Either is fine by me. The first to either to act like Danglars, and the second, is to act like Danglars. But no-one here has specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Why lie?
If memory serves weren't some posters enthused when Rand got beaten? (or that he deserved it) Acting like political violence is a 'right wing' phenomenon is silly, especially when the guy doing the violence in this case is an anti-capitalist who is a Malthusian (both "left wing" views, so it's not as stupidly simple as - he shot some muslims and is a nativist, therefore 'right wing', like posters here are doing to use a bludgeon). I guess hateful rhetoric is only OK if its directed to people making more than 10 million dollars, that's apparently acceptable...
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On March 16 2019 06:53 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 06:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 06:13 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 04:43 youngjiddle wrote:
Above all else, the NZ shooter's motive was to ignite tensions and push us towards civil war as stated in his manifesto. Predictably, everyone seems to be taking the bait and that's not sitting well with me. "Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:On March 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm used to the rightwing having bad takes on terrorism but these are downright insane Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said. And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that. I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person acting like e.g. Danglars is concerning this specific act of terrorism or are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person using the same arguments following another terror-attack? Because the first request seems to utterly miss the point and the second request seems very head-in-the-sand unless you really haven't paid any kind of attention to lorries driving through Christmas markets, shootings in theaters, and US republican senators getting shot at baseball practice and the ensuing aftermath. There were left-leaning people specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Either is fine by me. The first to either to act like Danglars, and the second, is to act like Danglars. But no-one here has specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Why lie? If memory serves weren't some posters enthused when Rand got beaten? (or that he deserved it) Acting like political violence is a 'right wing' phenomenon is silly, especially when the guy doing the violence in this case is an anti-capitalist who is a Malthusian (both "left wing" views, so it's not as stupidly simple as - he shot some muslims and is a nativist, therefore 'right wing', like posters here are doing to use a bludgeon). I guess hateful rhetoric is only OK if its directed to people making more than 10 million dollars, that's apparently acceptable... Rand got into a fight with his neighbour over a lawn dispute or something. The conclusion was that there was nothing political about it.
apples and oranges.
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On March 16 2019 06:57 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 06:53 Wegandi wrote:On March 16 2019 06:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 06:13 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 04:43 youngjiddle wrote:
Above all else, the NZ shooter's motive was to ignite tensions and push us towards civil war as stated in his manifesto. Predictably, everyone seems to be taking the bait and that's not sitting well with me. "Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:On March 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm used to the rightwing having bad takes on terrorism but these are downright insane Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said. And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that. I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person acting like e.g. Danglars is concerning this specific act of terrorism or are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person using the same arguments following another terror-attack? Because the first request seems to utterly miss the point and the second request seems very head-in-the-sand unless you really haven't paid any kind of attention to lorries driving through Christmas markets, shootings in theaters, and US republican senators getting shot at baseball practice and the ensuing aftermath. There were left-leaning people specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Either is fine by me. The first to either to act like Danglars, and the second, is to act like Danglars. But no-one here has specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Why lie? If memory serves weren't some posters enthused when Rand got beaten? (or that he deserved it) Acting like political violence is a 'right wing' phenomenon is silly, especially when the guy doing the violence in this case is an anti-capitalist who is a Malthusian (both "left wing" views, so it's not as stupidly simple as - he shot some muslims and is a nativist, therefore 'right wing', like posters here are doing to use a bludgeon). I guess hateful rhetoric is only OK if its directed to people making more than 10 million dollars, that's apparently acceptable... Rand got into a fight with his neighbour over a lawn dispute or something. The conclusion was that there was nothing political about it. apples and oranges.
Way to be obtuse.
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Sorry Wegandi, you are going to be more specific. A quick search of Rand got me some references to a judge Rand and Ayn Rand. Nothing about a republican getting beaten, but just in case, I can only say that any political violence should be denounced.
Edit: well it wasn't political, so it's not even close. If tomorrow Trump got into a fight with his neighbour over his lawn (whoever that neighbour may be), it is not political violence, and is not comparable with mass shooting a bunch of people at their religious prayer building and leaving a manifesto with political intent.
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Malthusian ideas are not inherently left-wing, they find plenty of lip service throughout the spectrum and are, in fact, a good basis for throwing the concept of the political spectrum in the trash when one is trying to say anything beyond stilted generalizations. Both of Malthus' notions that population growth naturally swallows up progressive abundance and that individualized moral restraint is the best way to remedy lower class poverty fit very nicely alongside plenty of "right wing" attitudes, his serving as fodder for David Ricardo's "free market" ideas notwithstanding.
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On March 16 2019 06:45 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 06:27 Nebuchad wrote:On March 16 2019 06:13 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 04:43 youngjiddle wrote:
Above all else, the NZ shooter's motive was to ignite tensions and push us towards civil war as stated in his manifesto. Predictably, everyone seems to be taking the bait and that's not sitting well with me. "Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:On March 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm used to the rightwing having bad takes on terrorism but these are downright insane Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said. And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that. I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person acting like e.g. Danglars is concerning this specific act of terrorism or are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person using the same arguments following another terror-attack? Because the first request seems to utterly miss the point and the second request seems very head-in-the-sand unless you really haven't paid any kind of attention to lorries driving through Christmas markets, shootings in theaters, and US republican senators getting shot at baseball practice and the ensuing aftermath. There were left-leaning people (not in this thread) specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. In this thread however, the "lone-lunatic" argument was employed just like you see now from the right-leaning poster. I'm going to require something less vague to justify the level of bothsidesism you went to. The equivalent for a muslim attack would be that the perpetrator talked about a specific imam that was his inspiration, that imam had some quotes that matched the action in some way, and the leftist went 'please don't be mean to the imam, that's what the perpetrator would want'. I can even give you some leniency and demand something less extreme than that, because why not. But we're going to need something. I don't need leniency. I do need for you to adhere to normal standards for a debate though. Directly from Wikipedia on the shooting of the republican congressman at the baseball practice. Try and see if some of these soundbites sound familiar: Show nested quote +
On May 22, 2017, Hodgkinson wrote "Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co." above his repost of a Change.org petition demanding "the legal removal" of Trump and Vice President Mike Pence for "treason". He belonged to numerous political Facebook groups, including those named "Terminate the Republican Party," "The Road To Hell Is Paved With Republicans," and "Donald Trump is not my President."[58]
If you want to blame Trump for the NZ terrorist attack because the guy quoted him and pointed to him as an inspiration, then really you have to blame the democrats for the Republican shooting (mind you, I am not advocating that).
You said "in the thread" my dude. You called us pathetic.
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Talking with Ghostcom reminded me of why I got into the habit of quoting almost every post first before replying to it. So that they can't go back and change their posts. Though in this case the post got edited anyways and then I was rudely demanded to "fix" my quoted response.
Anyways, I don't really see how Malthusian ideas is left wing. But I imagine I'll have to read the 87 page manifesto to find out. Which despite xdaunt and danglars being able to find it, I seem to be having a hard time finding it. Breivick's was easy to find. perhaps both xdaunt and danglars can share?
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On March 16 2019 07:26 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 06:58 Wegandi wrote:On March 16 2019 06:57 Gorsameth wrote:On March 16 2019 06:53 Wegandi wrote:On March 16 2019 06:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 06:13 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 04:43 youngjiddle wrote:
Above all else, the NZ shooter's motive was to ignite tensions and push us towards civil war as stated in his manifesto. Predictably, everyone seems to be taking the bait and that's not sitting well with me. "Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:On March 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm used to the rightwing having bad takes on terrorism but these are downright insane Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said. And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that. I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person acting like e.g. Danglars is concerning this specific act of terrorism or are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person using the same arguments following another terror-attack? Because the first request seems to utterly miss the point and the second request seems very head-in-the-sand unless you really haven't paid any kind of attention to lorries driving through Christmas markets, shootings in theaters, and US republican senators getting shot at baseball practice and the ensuing aftermath. There were left-leaning people specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Either is fine by me. The first to either to act like Danglars, and the second, is to act like Danglars. But no-one here has specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Why lie? If memory serves weren't some posters enthused when Rand got beaten? (or that he deserved it) Acting like political violence is a 'right wing' phenomenon is silly, especially when the guy doing the violence in this case is an anti-capitalist who is a Malthusian (both "left wing" views, so it's not as stupidly simple as - he shot some muslims and is a nativist, therefore 'right wing', like posters here are doing to use a bludgeon). I guess hateful rhetoric is only OK if its directed to people making more than 10 million dollars, that's apparently acceptable... Rand got into a fight with his neighbour over a lawn dispute or something. The conclusion was that there was nothing political about it. apples and oranges. Way to be obtuse. How is what he said obtuse?
Because the issue at hand is not what the specific altercation was about, it is about how people reacted to the incident. Trying to deflect how people were praising the guy for beating Rand, to why he was beat up, is pretty fucking obvious and doesn't at all answer my post. It's a non-sequitur of the highest order, but that's par for the course here. I'll leave you guys to your circle jerk.
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On March 16 2019 07:34 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 07:26 JimmiC wrote:On March 16 2019 06:58 Wegandi wrote:On March 16 2019 06:57 Gorsameth wrote:On March 16 2019 06:53 Wegandi wrote:On March 16 2019 06:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 06:13 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
[quote]"Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:
[quote]
Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said.
And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that.
I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person acting like e.g. Danglars is concerning this specific act of terrorism or are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person using the same arguments following another terror-attack? Because the first request seems to utterly miss the point and the second request seems very head-in-the-sand unless you really haven't paid any kind of attention to lorries driving through Christmas markets, shootings in theaters, and US republican senators getting shot at baseball practice and the ensuing aftermath. There were left-leaning people specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Either is fine by me. The first to either to act like Danglars, and the second, is to act like Danglars. But no-one here has specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Why lie? If memory serves weren't some posters enthused when Rand got beaten? (or that he deserved it) Acting like political violence is a 'right wing' phenomenon is silly, especially when the guy doing the violence in this case is an anti-capitalist who is a Malthusian (both "left wing" views, so it's not as stupidly simple as - he shot some muslims and is a nativist, therefore 'right wing', like posters here are doing to use a bludgeon). I guess hateful rhetoric is only OK if its directed to people making more than 10 million dollars, that's apparently acceptable... Rand got into a fight with his neighbour over a lawn dispute or something. The conclusion was that there was nothing political about it. apples and oranges. Way to be obtuse. How is what he said obtuse? Because the issue at hand is not what the specific altercation was about, it is about how people reacted to the incident. Trying to deflect how people were praising the guy for beating Rand, to why he was beat up, is pretty fucking obvious and doesn't at all answer my post. It's a non-sequitur of the highest order, but that's par for the course here. I'll leave you guys to your circle jerk.
It's called context. Rand got into a dumb fight because he and/or his neighbor were being jackholes. That gets filed into the "so what?" folder. How you think this shooting compares in any way is beyond me, and probably others.
But yeah, "peaceing out so we can circlejerk" makes you super cool and interesting.
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That's strange I thought the issue was that, xdaunt and danglars amongst others, is more concerned about defending the rhetoric of the white supremist and of the alt right, the shooters manifesto being filled with references and memes of the alt right (according to both who managed to read it), than actually denouncing the terrorist attack, when normally they are the first to denounce Muslims in the other case.
But ok, your issue is that a private alteration with your neighbours is equivalent to murdering 49 people in a terrorist attack.
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On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 04:43 youngjiddle wrote:
Above all else, the NZ shooter's motive was to ignite tensions and push us towards civil war as stated in his manifesto. Predictably, everyone seems to be taking the bait and that's not sitting well with me. "Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:On March 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm used to the rightwing having bad takes on terrorism but these are downright insane Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said. And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that. I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example of where a "left" poster defended a terrorist attack that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Edit: Bad timing, or perhaps deliberate, but I just read that Trump has just decided to veto the Congressional measure revoking his declaration of a national emergency at the US-Mexico border. From the analysis it appears that the veto will pass. Considering that NZ terrorist attack, we have a US president who claims that immigrants from Mexico are mostly gangsters and criminals and a media cycle from USA that which reinforces that. It's hard to deny the link. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47591552
here is the AOC tweets https://thehill.com/homenews/house/434190-ocasio-cortez-calls-out-nra-after-new-zealand-shootings-what-good-are-your
https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1106419873922584577?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
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United States42024 Posts
On March 16 2019 06:53 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 06:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 06:13 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 04:43 youngjiddle wrote:
Above all else, the NZ shooter's motive was to ignite tensions and push us towards civil war as stated in his manifesto. Predictably, everyone seems to be taking the bait and that's not sitting well with me. "Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:On March 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm used to the rightwing having bad takes on terrorism but these are downright insane Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said. And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that. I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person acting like e.g. Danglars is concerning this specific act of terrorism or are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person using the same arguments following another terror-attack? Because the first request seems to utterly miss the point and the second request seems very head-in-the-sand unless you really haven't paid any kind of attention to lorries driving through Christmas markets, shootings in theaters, and US republican senators getting shot at baseball practice and the ensuing aftermath. There were left-leaning people specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Either is fine by me. The first to either to act like Danglars, and the second, is to act like Danglars. But no-one here has specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Why lie? If memory serves weren't some posters enthused when Rand got beaten? (or that he deserved it) Acting like political violence is a 'right wing' phenomenon is silly, especially when the guy doing the violence in this case is an anti-capitalist who is a Malthusian (both "left wing" views, so it's not as stupidly simple as - he shot some muslims and is a nativist, therefore 'right wing', like posters here are doing to use a bludgeon). I guess hateful rhetoric is only OK if its directed to people making more than 10 million dollars, that's apparently acceptable...
Rand got beaten up in an argument with his neighbour over something insanely petty. That’s not political violence lol.
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On March 16 2019 08:14 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 04:43 youngjiddle wrote:
Above all else, the NZ shooter's motive was to ignite tensions and push us towards civil war as stated in his manifesto. Predictably, everyone seems to be taking the bait and that's not sitting well with me. "Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:On March 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm used to the rightwing having bad takes on terrorism but these are downright insane Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said. And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that. I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example of where a "left" poster defended a terrorist attack that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Edit: Bad timing, or perhaps deliberate, but I just read that Trump has just decided to veto the Congressional measure revoking his declaration of a national emergency at the US-Mexico border. From the analysis it appears that the veto will pass. Considering that NZ terrorist attack, we have a US president who claims that immigrants from Mexico are mostly gangsters and criminals and a media cycle from USA that which reinforces that. It's hard to deny the link. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47591552 here is the AOC tweets https://thehill.com/homenews/house/434190-ocasio-cortez-calls-out-nra-after-new-zealand-shootings-what-good-are-yourhttps://twitter.com/AOC/status/1106419873922584577?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
Those are calls to action, though. She's calling out the complacent 'our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims' attitude that people - especially the NRA - fall back on in place of doing something.
Not exactly what they're talking about.
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On March 16 2019 06:53 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 06:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 06:13 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 04:43 youngjiddle wrote:
Above all else, the NZ shooter's motive was to ignite tensions and push us towards civil war as stated in his manifesto. Predictably, everyone seems to be taking the bait and that's not sitting well with me. "Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:On March 16 2019 05:07 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm used to the rightwing having bad takes on terrorism but these are downright insane Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said. And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that. I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person acting like e.g. Danglars is concerning this specific act of terrorism or are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person using the same arguments following another terror-attack? Because the first request seems to utterly miss the point and the second request seems very head-in-the-sand unless you really haven't paid any kind of attention to lorries driving through Christmas markets, shootings in theaters, and US republican senators getting shot at baseball practice and the ensuing aftermath. There were left-leaning people specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Either is fine by me. The first to either to act like Danglars, and the second, is to act like Danglars. But no-one here has specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Why lie? If memory serves weren't some posters enthused when Rand got beaten? (or that he deserved it) Acting like political violence is a 'right wing' phenomenon is silly, especially when the guy doing the violence in this case is an anti-capitalist who is a Malthusian (both "left wing" views, so it's not as stupidly simple as - he shot some muslims and is a nativist, therefore 'right wing', like posters here are doing to use a bludgeon). I guess hateful rhetoric is only OK if its directed to people making more than 10 million dollars, that's apparently acceptable...
The right has tried to co-opt leftist positions on certain issues for almost a century now, but its painfully obvious that this doesnt make someone left wing or makes it unclear on whether or not this guy was a fascist. 'third way' proponents are part of the extrem right, this guys posted in far right internet forums and self identified as a fascist. Your attempt to construct a connection to the policies of someone like sanders is ridiculous.
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Nothing to see here, just the president of the United States recreating the rhetoric of a mass shooter.
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5930 Posts
On March 16 2019 07:34 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2019 07:26 JimmiC wrote:On March 16 2019 06:58 Wegandi wrote:On March 16 2019 06:57 Gorsameth wrote:On March 16 2019 06:53 Wegandi wrote:On March 16 2019 06:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 06:13 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 16 2019 05:06 youngjiddle wrote:On March 16 2019 05:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
[quote]"Tensions" are already "ignited" around the time the terrorist murdered a bunch of other people. There is no bait, except to inspire others to do the same. To make clear that the greater part of society views his political act as negative is the only only way to combat this. What would make you sit well? To simply allow his message spread without counter? A proper and timely reaction is what is needed, NOT comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer. I do not know what you are referring to as to comments like AO-Cortez's mocking the "NRA" and prayer, so I will just ask you what you would think a proper and timely reaction is? On March 16 2019 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:On March 16 2019 05:15 Simberto wrote:
[quote]
Just for fun, imagine if instead the murderer had been a muslim guy who shot up a church and claims that he was murdering people because of inspiration by stuff that Imam A and Imam B said.
And now think about how Danglars and xDaunt would react to that.
I find the contrast to the reaction that they display in this case very telling. Gotta protect your own team. That really goes for both sides as has been proven multiple times already in this thread. It's pathetic all around. Can you point to a single example that is related to this attack? Even an anecdotal one. Doesn't have to be a quote. Are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person acting like e.g. Danglars is concerning this specific act of terrorism or are you asking me to give an example of a left-leaning person using the same arguments following another terror-attack? Because the first request seems to utterly miss the point and the second request seems very head-in-the-sand unless you really haven't paid any kind of attention to lorries driving through Christmas markets, shootings in theaters, and US republican senators getting shot at baseball practice and the ensuing aftermath. There were left-leaning people specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Either is fine by me. The first to either to act like Danglars, and the second, is to act like Danglars. But no-one here has specifically celebrating that a republican had been shot and hoping for his demise. Why lie? If memory serves weren't some posters enthused when Rand got beaten? (or that he deserved it) Acting like political violence is a 'right wing' phenomenon is silly, especially when the guy doing the violence in this case is an anti-capitalist who is a Malthusian (both "left wing" views, so it's not as stupidly simple as - he shot some muslims and is a nativist, therefore 'right wing', like posters here are doing to use a bludgeon). I guess hateful rhetoric is only OK if its directed to people making more than 10 million dollars, that's apparently acceptable... Rand got into a fight with his neighbour over a lawn dispute or something. The conclusion was that there was nothing political about it. apples and oranges. Way to be obtuse. How is what he said obtuse? Because the issue at hand is not what the specific altercation was about, it is about how people reacted to the incident. Trying to deflect how people were praising the guy for beating Rand, to why he was beat up, is pretty fucking obvious and doesn't at all answer my post. It's a non-sequitur of the highest order, but that's par for the course here. I'll leave you guys to your circle jerk.
People reacted to Rand getting beat up with amusement because it was peak Judge Judy shit. They got into an altercation over grass clippings, Rand spent years instigating his neighbour by being petty and dumping his green waste inappropriately.
The fact that Rand’s pettiness got his ass beat for being a long term bad neighbour is actually pretty amusing sorry to say. It’s not like some nutso going to a baseball field and shooting up politicians where the gravity of the situation and motives are horrible in every way. The Rand Paul grass clippings situation is a situation everyone can identify with. Which is dealing with shitty neighbours that purposely try to antagonise you because they think you can’t/won’t do anything.
Honestly, the Twitter reaction to the Rand beef was not really any different to, say, Cardi B beefing with Nicki Minaj.
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I just loathe the idea that "I must use this word because I really want people to get worked up". He is openly admitting he thinks that the language used by certain parts of the right is justified, regardless of the consequences. It really just isn't.
He is validating this guy's thoughts by saying "and on that topic, you know OUR invasion..?"
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EPT
