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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 101

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 11 2018 01:54 GMT
#2001


This was the greatest fear during the last days of the Nixon administration. But we are far away from that and racing towards military conflict in a far more complex region.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
April 11 2018 02:21 GMT
#2002
I don't think there were any winners in that hearing. Ted Cruz pandered to his base a bit I suppose, so maybe he shored up some votes, but outside of that, what a shitshow.

On April 11 2018 10:05 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 07:12 Emnjay808 wrote:
Isn’t Zuckerberg a lefty. They have the moral high ground so I doubt he’s guilty of anything.

That's not how it works. The left doesn't have moral high ground over the right because they're leftists. Rather, they're leftists because they have morals.

You've got your cause and effect backwards.

Urgh
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
April 11 2018 02:45 GMT
#2003
I think people confuse their reps with their reps' offices. Your rep doesn't always know everything. They can't. But that's what staff is for.

Of course these dinosaurs aren't going to ask technologically-proficient questions. But open-hearings are a pony-show anyways. What actually matters is the staffers and the follow-up. And it's not a question of illegality. It's a question of oversight and regulations -- so in that respect, Facebook is no more "liberal" in this than any other monopolistic corporation.

I do think the current government is feckless, but I wouldn't make that judgment based off the open-hearing. Rather I'm making that judgment based on the fact that nothing will come from it.
Big water
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-11 03:54:58
April 11 2018 03:53 GMT
#2004
It appears Nunes has gone from removing himself from the investigation to pushing to remove the head of the FBI.



The head of the FBI, a guy who wouldn't have been able to stop this raid even if he wanted to. I expect we will see more of this in the coming days while the leadership of the House and Senate hold a tight grip on what bills can be brought to the floor. Senators are trying to bring bills to the floor to protect the special counsel, but the House and Senate leaders not interested those bills with votes from Democrats. Especially the House.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 11 2018 04:57 GMT
#2005
On April 11 2018 12:53 Plansix wrote:
It appears Nunes has gone from removing himself from the investigation to pushing to remove the head of the FBI.

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/983904259392589824

The head of the FBI, a guy who wouldn't have been able to stop this raid even if he wanted to. I expect we will see more of this in the coming days while the leadership of the House and Senate hold a tight grip on what bills can be brought to the floor. Senators are trying to bring bills to the floor to protect the special counsel, but the House and Senate leaders not interested those bills with votes from Democrats. Especially the House.


Wow what a clown. Could he be any more in the tank for Trump?
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
April 11 2018 05:20 GMT
#2006
On April 11 2018 13:57 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 12:53 Plansix wrote:
It appears Nunes has gone from removing himself from the investigation to pushing to remove the head of the FBI.

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/983904259392589824

The head of the FBI, a guy who wouldn't have been able to stop this raid even if he wanted to. I expect we will see more of this in the coming days while the leadership of the House and Senate hold a tight grip on what bills can be brought to the floor. Senators are trying to bring bills to the floor to protect the special counsel, but the House and Senate leaders not interested those bills with votes from Democrats. Especially the House.


Wow what a clown. Could he be any more in the tank for Trump?


He is only in the tank because the left VICITMIZED him. Ingraham would know, that Hoggs bully victimized her with her advertisers (you might even say he cuckolded her). I don't know if you have heard, but being a Conservative these days is like being a Jew in Germany in 1939.


As for liberals: Well, guys, check your privilege. Try to really imagine what it might be like to have a conservative identity when cultural products almost all skew liberal. That is, to be one of the few acceptable villains for all the movies and jokes and television shows. To see your viewpoint systematically excluded and slighted. To have your daily life, your beliefs, routinely handled with ignorance and insensitivity.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bias-against-conservatives-works-like-any-other-prejudice/2018/04/10/17fa1838-3c40-11e8-974f-aacd97698cef_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7553c61a1641
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-11 06:09:03
April 11 2018 06:08 GMT
#2007
On April 11 2018 14:20 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 13:57 Doodsmack wrote:
On April 11 2018 12:53 Plansix wrote:
It appears Nunes has gone from removing himself from the investigation to pushing to remove the head of the FBI.

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/983904259392589824

The head of the FBI, a guy who wouldn't have been able to stop this raid even if he wanted to. I expect we will see more of this in the coming days while the leadership of the House and Senate hold a tight grip on what bills can be brought to the floor. Senators are trying to bring bills to the floor to protect the special counsel, but the House and Senate leaders not interested those bills with votes from Democrats. Especially the House.


Wow what a clown. Could he be any more in the tank for Trump?


He is only in the tank because the left VICITMIZED him. Ingraham would know, that Hoggs bully victimized her with her advertisers (you might even say he cuckolded her). I don't know if you have heard, but being a Conservative these days is like being a Jew in Germany in 1939.

Show nested quote +

As for liberals: Well, guys, check your privilege. Try to really imagine what it might be like to have a conservative identity when cultural products almost all skew liberal. That is, to be one of the few acceptable villains for all the movies and jokes and television shows. To see your viewpoint systematically excluded and slighted. To have your daily life, your beliefs, routinely handled with ignorance and insensitivity.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bias-against-conservatives-works-like-any-other-prejudice/2018/04/10/17fa1838-3c40-11e8-974f-aacd97698cef_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7553c61a1641

That's actually a pretty good article. Not at getting its point across, but it demonstrates how conservatives develop the mindset that they are unfairly targets of persecution despite their immense power and influence.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-11 06:49:26
April 11 2018 06:43 GMT
#2008
On April 11 2018 15:08 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 14:20 Wulfey_LA wrote:
On April 11 2018 13:57 Doodsmack wrote:
On April 11 2018 12:53 Plansix wrote:
It appears Nunes has gone from removing himself from the investigation to pushing to remove the head of the FBI.

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/983904259392589824

The head of the FBI, a guy who wouldn't have been able to stop this raid even if he wanted to. I expect we will see more of this in the coming days while the leadership of the House and Senate hold a tight grip on what bills can be brought to the floor. Senators are trying to bring bills to the floor to protect the special counsel, but the House and Senate leaders not interested those bills with votes from Democrats. Especially the House.


Wow what a clown. Could he be any more in the tank for Trump?


He is only in the tank because the left VICITMIZED him. Ingraham would know, that Hoggs bully victimized her with her advertisers (you might even say he cuckolded her). I don't know if you have heard, but being a Conservative these days is like being a Jew in Germany in 1939.


As for liberals: Well, guys, check your privilege. Try to really imagine what it might be like to have a conservative identity when cultural products almost all skew liberal. That is, to be one of the few acceptable villains for all the movies and jokes and television shows. To see your viewpoint systematically excluded and slighted. To have your daily life, your beliefs, routinely handled with ignorance and insensitivity.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bias-against-conservatives-works-like-any-other-prejudice/2018/04/10/17fa1838-3c40-11e8-974f-aacd97698cef_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7553c61a1641

That's actually a pretty good article. Not at getting its point across, but it demonstrates how conservatives develop the mindset that they are unfairly targets of persecution despite their immense power and influence.


Oh yeah. I am going to be going back to that article over and over again. McCardle re-casts conservatism as an identity, instead of being a set of political beliefs based on some sort of philosophy and/or historical events. Conservatism as an identity instead of a set of beliefs of course works much better with these times. Trump and Jordan Peterson are pushing for a post-fact, identity-first vision of conservatism. Might as well go full victimology-butthurt-whining-mode and beat the transgenders at their own game I guess.

EDIT: we are the point where conservative intellectuals (that are paid money for the publishing of their ideas by global tier newspapers) are pushing the idea that 'conservative' is an identity and should be protected from criticism (i.e., microaggressions) just like any other identity in the pantheon of identity politics.
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
April 11 2018 07:10 GMT
#2009
I mean, that cuts both ways. People on the left are fairly quick to label conservatism an identity as well, they just do it to drive an an ad hom, while the right does it for solidarity.

Assigning yourself and others to groups to simplify friend/enemy dynamics probably predates hitting each other with sticks. There's nothing new there.
Kickboxer
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Slovenia1308 Posts
April 11 2018 08:24 GMT
#2010
On April 11 2018 10:05 KwarK wrote:
That's not how it works. The left doesn't have moral high ground over the right because they're leftists. Rather, they're leftists because they have morals.

You've got your cause and effect backwards.


Unfortunately, a lot of the time these morals express themselves in the real world as
a) having a bunch of grandiose ideas everyone else needs to pay for (not very fair, let's be honest)
b) telling everyone else what to do

my pet peeve with self-identified leftists is that they're seldom productive or pleasant to be around. It's just a funny fact. The chance they will either be young and self absorbed, a frustrated intellectual, someone with a bunch of personality issues or some type of struggling artist is overwhelming

Seeing a lazy and / or abrasive person lecture about "muh morals" creates a particular resentment, just like seeing that asshole Peter Schiff pout about his stock gains.

Like, with some of these types, you'd expect to find them swimming to Africa to donate their organs or something when you hear them talk, and then when you look at their life it's just a disgtruntled person with an entitlement issue.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23893 Posts
April 11 2018 08:43 GMT
#2011
On April 11 2018 17:24 Kickboxer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 10:05 KwarK wrote:
That's not how it works. The left doesn't have moral high ground over the right because they're leftists. Rather, they're leftists because they have morals.

You've got your cause and effect backwards.


Unfortunately, a lot of the time these morals express themselves in the real world as
a) having a bunch of grandiose ideas everyone else needs to pay for (not very fair, let's be honest)
b) telling everyone else what to do


Feel like that's the entire history of conservatism in the US, hell, since the pilgrims.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-11 19:59:47
April 11 2018 08:50 GMT
#2012
nvm
Life?
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9838 Posts
April 11 2018 08:53 GMT
#2013
On April 11 2018 10:05 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 07:12 Emnjay808 wrote:
Isn’t Zuckerberg a lefty. They have the moral high ground so I doubt he’s guilty of anything.

That's not how it works. The left doesn't have moral high ground over the right because they're leftists. Rather, they're leftists because they have morals.

You've got your cause and effect backwards.


Well I can't work out whether you are just baiting or whether you actually believe this.
You never came across as someone who doesn't understand what they are talking about before so I'm going to go with baiting.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18275 Posts
April 11 2018 08:58 GMT
#2014
On April 11 2018 17:53 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 10:05 KwarK wrote:
On April 11 2018 07:12 Emnjay808 wrote:
Isn’t Zuckerberg a lefty. They have the moral high ground so I doubt he’s guilty of anything.

That's not how it works. The left doesn't have moral high ground over the right because they're leftists. Rather, they're leftists because they have morals.

You've got your cause and effect backwards.


Well I can't work out whether you are just baiting or whether you actually believe this.
You never came across as someone who doesn't understand what they are talking about before so I'm going to go with baiting.

Or maybe he's proclaiming himself to be morally bankrupt as he self-describes his political leaning as right of center
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22283 Posts
April 11 2018 09:24 GMT
#2015
On April 11 2018 12:53 Plansix wrote:
It appears Nunes has gone from removing himself from the investigation to pushing to remove the head of the FBI.

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/983904259392589824

The head of the FBI, a guy who wouldn't have been able to stop this raid even if he wanted to. I expect we will see more of this in the coming days while the leadership of the House and Senate hold a tight grip on what bills can be brought to the floor. Senators are trying to bring bills to the floor to protect the special counsel, but the House and Senate leaders not interested those bills with votes from Democrats. Especially the House.
I assume there is no some easy legal way to punish someone who recused himself from breaking that?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Kickboxer
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Slovenia1308 Posts
April 11 2018 09:39 GMT
#2016
Everyone, I have an interesting question. It touches upon what I see as the greatest flaw of Marx, namely not understanding the role played by the capitalist in the labor-capital symbiosis (having since evidently turned out that a planned economy is theoretically impossible, while in capitalism, the products don't simply "sell themselves" nor does the company magically run itself. In addition, many people lack the social and organizational skills to independently operate on the market - or just aren't smart enough, which results in the apparent need for intermediaries and eventually cancer formations like Uber where people bring all the capital to the table but still end up being exploited).

Let's say, today and now, we have two companies. One has 140 workers, the other has 100 workers and 2 "capitalists", meaning theoretically managers, strategists, networkers (lobbyists), people who can move public attention and product.

Which company does better on your average dynamic market across time? If you've identified the second as vastly more efficient, why should a manager not be paid 20 times as much salary as a worker; even if the capital theoretically belonged to everyone? Who is actually creating the added value, and in what ratio?

To me the concept of added value is central to any pragmatic moral discussion. If we want to live well, we require value all around us (this keeps on increasing as our standard goes up), and someone has to be creating it so we can keep consuming. Nothing just happens because hippies and flowers. Here's where Ayn Rand, who I see as one of the most toxic intellectuals of our time, was actually spot on. The capitalist's utility in generating real wealth seems to be completely overlooked by many socio-political pundits.
A3th3r
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
United States319 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-11 10:04:34
April 11 2018 10:04 GMT
#2017
I guess I'd say who cares either way what happens to that Trump staffer who may or may not get fired. Here's something that's really important: What country can pick up the slack if there is less trade going on between the US & China? India is slightly less developed than China but does have a lot of cheap labor & raw materials. Same goes for Indonesia. Japan is a "highly developed" country & sells mostly laptops, cell phones, & consumer electronics. They are not the place to go for manufacturing needs. Europe is too expensive in terms of labor costs. Mexico is right next door and already has a few US factories.

I think that the US should develop more business connections with Mexico & exploit the cheap labor & natural resources that are there to stimulate the economy & pick up the slack if there is going to be less trade going on with China than before. In my opinion, Trump is bluffing with these tariffs & is trying to get a better deal with China. That is a reasonable thing to do in the business world but worries people when it is done in the world of politics.
stale trite schlub
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22283 Posts
April 11 2018 10:09 GMT
#2018
On April 11 2018 19:04 A3th3r wrote:
I guess I'd say who cares either way what happens to that Trump staffer who may or may not get fired. Here's something that's really important: What country can pick up the slack if there is less trade going on between the US & China? India is slightly less developed than China but does have a lot of cheap labor & raw materials. Same goes for Indonesia. Japan is a "highly developed" country & sells mostly laptops, cell phones, & consumer electronics. They are not the place to go for manufacturing needs. Europe is too expensive in terms of labor costs. Mexico is right next door and already has a few US factories.

I think that the US should develop more business connections with Mexico & exploit the cheap labor & natural resources that are there to stimulate the economy & pick up the slack if there is going to be less trade going on with China than before. In my opinion, Trump is bluffing with these tariffs & is trying to get a better deal with China. That is a reasonable thing to do in the business world but worries people when it is done in the world of politics.
Gee if only Trump had been trying to cultivate positive relations with Mexico to make this swing in industry happen instead of repeatedly antagonizing them.

I would also guess a lot of companies would rather wait it out until the next election and get the tarrifs undone then set up new infrastructure that will take just as long but cost more money.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
April 11 2018 10:09 GMT
#2019
On April 11 2018 17:53 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 10:05 KwarK wrote:
On April 11 2018 07:12 Emnjay808 wrote:
Isn’t Zuckerberg a lefty. They have the moral high ground so I doubt he’s guilty of anything.

That's not how it works. The left doesn't have moral high ground over the right because they're leftists. Rather, they're leftists because they have morals.

You've got your cause and effect backwards.


Well I can't work out whether you are just baiting or whether you actually believe this.
You never came across as someone who doesn't understand what they are talking about before so I'm going to go with baiting.


That's the conclusion i came to, had a decent sized posting already written about how simply untrue the statement is, but i guess there's no point in that.

If everything would be so clear cut as philosophy, the world would be easy. Right?
On track to MA1950A.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22283 Posts
April 11 2018 10:17 GMT
#2020
On April 11 2018 18:39 Kickboxer wrote:
Everyone, I have an interesting question. It touches upon what I see as the greatest flaw of Marx, namely not understanding the role played by the capitalist in the labor-capital symbiosis (having since evidently turned out that a planned economy is theoretically impossible, while in capitalism, the products don't simply "sell themselves" nor does the company magically run itself. In addition, many people lack the social and organizational skills to independently operate on the market - or just aren't smart enough, which results in the apparent need for intermediaries and eventually cancer formations like Uber where people bring all the capital to the table but still end up being exploited).

Let's say, today and now, we have two companies. One has 140 workers, the other has 100 workers and 2 "capitalists", meaning theoretically managers, strategists, networkers (lobbyists), people who can move public attention and product.

Which company does better on your average dynamic market across time? If you've identified the second as vastly more efficient, why should a manager not be paid 20 times as much salary as a worker; even if the capital theoretically belonged to everyone? Who is actually creating the added value, and in what ratio?

To me the concept of added value is central to any pragmatic moral discussion. If we want to live well, we require value all around us (this keeps on increasing as our standard goes up), and someone has to be creating it so we can keep consuming. Nothing just happens because hippies and flowers. Here's where Ayn Rand, who I see as one of the most toxic intellectuals of our time, was actually spot on. The capitalist's utility in generating real wealth seems to be completely overlooked by many socio-political pundits.
In theory, sure. In practice the numbers don't add up. I don't believe that a CEO makes a company 1000 times more efficient and that a CEO that is payed half is that much worse.
Especially when the company doesn't improve anyway and the expensive CEO bails out before the business takes a dive with a giant severance payment.

A big construction company in my country got an expensive outside CEO to help. They then faced an attempted hostile takeover. 6 months after starting the CEO left because "He couldn't take the stress", he will receive a full year of pay and his severance package even tho he himself was the one that quit. its insane.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
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