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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 103

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
April 11 2018 16:58 GMT
#2041
Can anyone explain on which accounts is Zuckerberg being questioned? Is there a law in the US where the Congress can call any C.E.O to explain things? Or is this a thing connected with foreign power/treason?
Dating thread on TL LUL
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
April 11 2018 17:08 GMT
#2042
It feels weird how Trump announces air strikes and now everything is silent until it happens. A really major military escalation is announced, but nothing yet. Usually it seems like we hear about major escalations after the fact. There's something uncomfortable about knowing about it ahead of time.
Kickboxer
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Slovenia1308 Posts
April 11 2018 17:08 GMT
#2043
I'm talking about added value, not money. They're not the same. I look at all things positive in terms of value. Financial products and tricks like speculation make a lot of money, but rather than adding value they deplete the system i.e. leech the social and natural environment. I see that as cancer. There are many other ways to make money that generate negative value, the most basic one being a bank loan, and we should be trying to make them all very hard or eliminate them from society if we can do so through peaceful and constructive means. Things like reality TV also make money but generate negative value in terms of turning people into cretins.

Value comes in many forms. I believe legitimate art has tremendous value for example. There are many more "artists" than legitimate artists tho (blaming postmodern tendencies here ), so it's complicated. Healthy food, tech, nice shoes (general aesthetic factor), pleasant avenues, these are all things that increase the value of society.

I've noticed workers have a very hard time generating value without a capitalist around, and I'm starting to suspect lack of capital is not the fundamental problem. It takes a lot of creativity, effort and dedication, not to mention considerable intellectual breadth to operate your goods on a mass free market. Capital isn't just "dead labor" since things don't sell themselves. The people who provide the labour tend not to have the specific organizational, intellectual and temperamental traits required to perform market strategic activities. It's arguable if their class position even fosters the values (or affords the luxury) to develop such traits.

Since some people on the far left believe rich people are necessarily "parasites", I think they don't understand how reality operates.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 11 2018 17:09 GMT
#2044
On April 12 2018 01:58 SoSexy wrote:
Can anyone explain on which accounts is Zuckerberg being questioned? Is there a law in the US where the Congress can call any C.E.O to explain things? Or is this a thing connected with foreign power/treason?

Congress can summon any citizen to testify if they feel it is necessary. Just like a court can.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
April 11 2018 17:18 GMT
#2045
On April 12 2018 02:09 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2018 01:58 SoSexy wrote:
Can anyone explain on which accounts is Zuckerberg being questioned? Is there a law in the US where the Congress can call any C.E.O to explain things? Or is this a thing connected with foreign power/treason?

Congress can summon any citizen to testify if they feel it is necessary. Just like a court can.


So will this have legal implications?
Dating thread on TL LUL
Kickboxer
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Slovenia1308 Posts
April 11 2018 17:21 GMT
#2046
Zucc is the closest creature to Data from Star Trek I've ever laid my eyes on. If you saw him on the street you'd think something must be seriously wrong with him. Even his skin looks unusual, like it's glossy or something.

Also, the way the congress people were questioning him was really unusual. Making awkward jokes about facebook and instagram etc., giving shout outs, sometimes showing they have no clue how the internet or apps even work. Weird times
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
April 11 2018 17:24 GMT
#2047
The dreaded question about listening to conversations - reddit was crazy over this
Dating thread on TL LUL
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 11 2018 17:31 GMT
#2048
On April 12 2018 02:18 SoSexy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2018 02:09 Plansix wrote:
On April 12 2018 01:58 SoSexy wrote:
Can anyone explain on which accounts is Zuckerberg being questioned? Is there a law in the US where the Congress can call any C.E.O to explain things? Or is this a thing connected with foreign power/treason?

Congress can summon any citizen to testify if they feel it is necessary. Just like a court can.


So will this have legal implications?

They can put you under oath. Zuck isn’t under oath. Lying, misleading or giving the impression that you tired to mislead Congress is a terrible idea for a CEO. Congress reacts very poorly to being mislead by a CEO and can pass new regulations. Or limit the liability protecting sites on the internet enjoy that physical pulbicans do not.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 11 2018 17:36 GMT
#2049
On April 12 2018 02:21 Kickboxer wrote:
Zucc is the closest creature to Data from Star Trek I've ever laid my eyes on. If you saw him on the street you'd think something must be seriously wrong with him. Even his skin looks unusual, like it's glossy or something.

Also, the way the congress people were questioning him was really unusual. Making awkward jokes about facebook and instagram etc., giving shout outs, sometimes showing they have no clue how the internet or apps even work. Weird times

suhc behavior is not uncommon in congressional hearings. they're often more for show/politicking/grandstanding than seriously getting work done. at least the public testimony part; the meatier stuff is just done via the submitted texts or in closed sessions. not that i've seen this particular questioning btw.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-11 18:03:57
April 11 2018 17:43 GMT
#2050
On April 12 2018 02:08 Mohdoo wrote:
It feels weird how Trump announces air strikes and now everything is silent until it happens. A really major military escalation is announced, but nothing yet. Usually it seems like we hear about major escalations after the fact. There's something uncomfortable about knowing about it ahead of time.


You just have to remember the position of our president on the matter. For example two weeks ago he said we should withdraw.


















Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
April 11 2018 18:14 GMT
#2051
DJT will change his mind back to peacenik once Tucker Carlson comes on.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8272 Posts
April 11 2018 18:29 GMT
#2052
On April 12 2018 01:58 SoSexy wrote:
Can anyone explain on which accounts is Zuckerberg being questioned? Is there a law in the US where the Congress can call any C.E.O to explain things? Or is this a thing connected with foreign power/treason?


As Plansix said, Congress can question anyone they want on the account of whatever they want. This is less about attacking Zuckerberg for being a bad guy and more about finding out where things went wrong and what regulations should be put forth so this doesn't happen again.. Although not everyone in congress seems to have understood this..
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-11 18:42:32
April 11 2018 18:40 GMT
#2053
nvm
Neosteel Enthusiast
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 11 2018 18:44 GMT
#2054
On April 12 2018 03:29 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2018 01:58 SoSexy wrote:
Can anyone explain on which accounts is Zuckerberg being questioned? Is there a law in the US where the Congress can call any C.E.O to explain things? Or is this a thing connected with foreign power/treason?


As Plansix said, Congress can question anyone they want on the account of whatever they want. This is less about attacking Zuckerberg for being a bad guy and more about finding out where things went wrong and what regulations should be put forth so this doesn't happen again.. Although not everyone in congress seems to have understood this..

The House seems slightly more aware than the senate
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-11 19:11:23
April 11 2018 19:09 GMT
#2055
On April 12 2018 02:08 Kickboxer wrote:
I'm talking about added value, not money. They're not the same. I look at all things positive in terms of value. Financial products and tricks like speculation make a lot of money, but rather than adding value they deplete the system i.e. leech the social and natural environment. I see that as cancer. There are many other ways to make money that generate negative value, the most basic one being a bank loan, and we should be trying to make them all very hard or eliminate them from society if we can do so through peaceful and constructive means. Things like reality TV also make money but generate negative value in terms of turning people into cretins.

Value comes in many forms. I believe legitimate art has tremendous value for example. There are many more "artists" than legitimate artists tho (blaming postmodern tendencies here ), so it's complicated. Healthy food, tech, nice shoes (general aesthetic factor), pleasant avenues, these are all things that increase the value of society.

I've noticed workers have a very hard time generating value without a capitalist around, and I'm starting to suspect lack of capital is not the fundamental problem. It takes a lot of creativity, effort and dedication, not to mention considerable intellectual breadth to operate your goods on a mass free market. Capital isn't just "dead labor" since things don't sell themselves. The people who provide the labour tend not to have the specific organizational, intellectual and temperamental traits required to perform market strategic activities. It's arguable if their class position even fosters the values (or affords the luxury) to develop such traits.

Since some people on the far left believe rich people are necessarily "parasites", I think they don't understand how reality operates.


a ceo performs labor and may or may not also provide capital. providing capital is what a capitalist does in exchange for a share of the product in the self-valorizing circuit: M-->C-->M'

you seem not to have a very solid grasp on the fundamentals here, as illustrated by your ill-posed questions and incoherent description of value. its all very well to say that such and such produces negative value and this other thing produces positive value and things dont sell themselves, but you haven't said what value is, how you measure it, or how a "capitalist" sells her product without labor
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24152 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-11 19:30:27
April 11 2018 19:29 GMT
#2056
On April 11 2018 23:44 Doodsmack wrote:
Trump had no idea that the Ukrainian was going to donate to his charity. It was all arranged by someone else, without trumps knowledge.



Just to be clear, that's the same Ukranian that donated ~100x that to the Clinton Foundation, for what I'm sure are completely different reasons right?

User was temp banned for this post.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
April 11 2018 19:34 GMT
#2057
He also stated that a bank loan generates negative value, which doesn't really make sense. Debt, like equity, is just a form of capital/ financing.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
April 11 2018 19:48 GMT
#2058
On April 12 2018 04:34 ticklishmusic wrote:
He also stated that a bank loan generates negative value, which doesn't really make sense. Debt, like equity, is just a form of capital/ financing.


My student loans have already paid for themselves from the government's perspective. And my income delta continues to strongly justify my student loans. Overall, this has been a slam dunk for all parties involved. I more than quadrupled my income and the government is purely profiting off my repayment at this point. The additional taxes I have paid as a result of my increased income are already greater than the total cost of my student loans lol.
Kickboxer
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Slovenia1308 Posts
April 11 2018 19:57 GMT
#2059
I'm trying to explain things in very simple terms Igne, but you still don't understand. Maybe because I'm not following your iron definitions? You should really be able to infer more precisely what I mean from the plain language. The Marxist notion of a "capitalist" is, the way I see it:

a) outdated, because you've de facto been able to run a business with 0 capital for decades, while still exploiting labour, ever since the internet - something that "should not compute". The necessity for any kind of intermediary between labor and consumption is, theoretically, no longer there in many professional and even service fields. But the proletariat is still not behaving according to expected marxist models since functioning cooperatives are something you need to look for with a magnifying glass. I find that interesting and problematic, and also wonder why the left doesn't talk about it all the time

b) fails to understand there is implicit labour, of a non-proletarian nature altogether, performed by any (non-failing) capitalist that is core for the operation of the entire capital-labor symbiosis. Call it politico-socio-economic networking or whatever you want, that is likely critical in the generation of large-scale value in society. Yes, some people really do "create jobs". Out of thin air. In fact without these people, the economy tends not to work. I haven't found this concept in my admittedly very rudimentary understanding of Marx where the proletariat in some endgame is able to run the show by itself

the "value" concept should be pretty clear. Whatever improves the wellbeing of people or keeps them healthy and smiling
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24152 Posts
April 11 2018 20:03 GMT
#2060
On April 12 2018 04:57 Kickboxer wrote:
I'm trying to explain things in very simple terms Igne, but you still don't understand. Maybe because I'm not following your iron definitions? You should really be able to infer more precisely what I mean from the plain language. The Marxist notion of a "capitalist" is, the way I see it:

a) outdated, because you've de facto been able to run a business with 0 capital for decades, while still exploiting labour, ever since the internet - something that "should not compute". The necessity for any kind of intermediary between labor and consumption is, theoretically, no longer there in many professional and even service fields. But the proletariat is still not behaving according to expected marxist models since functioning cooperatives are something you need to look for with a magnifying glass. I find that interesting and problematic, and also wonder why the left doesn't talk about it all the time

b) fails to understand there is implicit labour, of a non-proletarian nature altogether, performed by any (non-failing) capitalist that is core for the operation of the entire capital-labor symbiosis. Call it politico-socio-economic networking or whatever you want, that is likely critical in the generation of large-scale value in society. Yes, some people really do "create jobs". Out of thin air. In fact without these people, the economy tends not to work. I haven't found this concept in my admittedly very rudimentary understanding of Marx where the proletariat in some endgame is able to run the show by itself

the "value" concept should be pretty clear. Whatever improves the wellbeing of people or keeps them healthy and smiling


I'm not sure I understand why you think more equitable distribution fundamentally changes the functional capabilities of managers in a negative way.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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