• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:56
CET 05:56
KST 13:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion5Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 105
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Fantasy's Q&A video BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1257 users

The Math Thread - Page 25

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 32 Next All
Rodya
Profile Joined January 2018
546 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-22 00:18:15
February 22 2019 00:05 GMT
#481
Okay, I see what you were doing. Notice that x*sech^2(w^T x) is a vector - this is what you're saying is the gradient of f in this other problem. And that is indeed the correct answer.

Now going back to the original problem, let me just write the answer so you can see the differences: (1/2)(sum from i to m)x^(i)(w^Tx^(i)-y^(i)) / |w^Tx^(i)-y^(i)|. Apologies for misreading your answer. You are using some shortcuts to calculate the whole gradient at once. Which is fine, but I wasn't expecting it.

Let me give you a quick calculus review. So, the output of f(w) is a number (it looks like a loss function). However, f(w) is a multivariable function, it has as many variables as there are elements in w. Now, I'm assuming that w is a vector, not a matrix, although it definitely could be, lets assume for now that it is a vector. You talk about the derivative of f with respect to w, however think about the function g(z) = z_1+2z_2+3z_3 where z=(z_1, z_2,z_3) is some vector. Now you probably can guess that the 'derivative' of g is equal to (1,2,3), but strictly speaking, you can only take a derivative with respect to a single dimensional variable (i.e. something that varies over the real numbers and therefore isnt a vector). Thus we can't calculate dg/dz, we can only calculate dg/dz_1, dg/dz_2, and dg/dz_3. So we simply DEFINE dg/dz to be the VECTOR (dg/dz_1, dg/dz_2, dg/dz_3), which you can easily check is equal to (1,2,3). Similarly, the derivative of f(w) is defined to be the vector (df/dw_1, ..., df/dw_D). You can check your work and see that the answer I gave you can be found using either your method or the method of partial derivatives. I'm actually lying a bit to you here, but it's very useful (and I'm sure your teacher expects you) to think of the derivative of g/f this way. It will help to demystify some of your derivations and let you check your work using basic calculus.

Earlier you mentioned that you were anxious about taking derivatives of matrices - so since you've mentioned it again, let me briefly justify the fact that d/dw (w^T x) = x. Let x be an arbitrary matrix, then we can think of it as a linear transformation that maps vectors w to xw. Therefore, if we denote that linear transformation by f(w), we have f(w) = xw. Now, a derivative is supposed to be the best linear approximation of a function at each point. But a linear transformation is linear everywhere, so it is ITSELF the best linear approximation to ITSELF at every point. Thus the best linear approximation (i.e. the derivative) of f(w) is x. So d/dw(f(w)) = x. Hopefully it gives you some peace of mind at least, even if it isn't a rigorous argument.
Banned for saying "zerg players are by far the biggest whiners in sc2 history" despite the fact that this forum is full of such posts about Terrans. Foreigner Elitists in control!
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
February 22 2019 00:09 GMT
#482
how are you so nice here when you're so mean to foreign pros in power rankings

just teasing, thanks for all the responses. I'll check this out closely when I am done with dinner.
Rodya
Profile Joined January 2018
546 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-22 00:17:18
February 22 2019 00:13 GMT
#483
Oh, and you asked about whether since x^(i) is a vector, that x is a matrix. You haven't defined x yet, I have no clue what it is. It's possible that in your book, the notation used is that x^(i) is the i'th column or row of x. If that is the case, then x would be a matrix. If your book does not use that notation though, then x isn't anything - it is undefined, so don't think about it and don't let it appear in your derivations unless you define it first.

edit: I'm an enigma.
Banned for saying "zerg players are by far the biggest whiners in sc2 history" despite the fact that this forum is full of such posts about Terrans. Foreigner Elitists in control!
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
February 22 2019 23:02 GMT
#484
I solved the last two derivatives on my own... they were horrible and long but they used the same concepts.

In other news, I am being forced to turn my homework in using latex, and it includes graphs and stuff. This does not seem worth it, it is making my homework take SOOOO long to do, and I expect that people outside of academia don't really end up using this so I am not sure why the professor wouldn't let us write it on a damn piece of paper
Rodya
Profile Joined January 2018
546 Posts
February 23 2019 00:52 GMT
#485
If your professor is okay with it, you can cut down the time it takes to put graphs in the document by using snipping tool (or screen shot) to take a picture of the graph, then use \includegraphics{mypicture.png} to insert the graph crudely into the doc. You can also manually adjust the size of the picture.

You gotta include \usepackage{graphicx} in the preamble though to do that.

Also, http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html is your best friend. Just draw any symbol and it will tell you how to make it, and if you need a special package to do so.
Banned for saying "zerg players are by far the biggest whiners in sc2 history" despite the fact that this forum is full of such posts about Terrans. Foreigner Elitists in control!
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
February 23 2019 01:35 GMT
#486
that symbol classifier - whoever made that is a hero
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18190 Posts
February 23 2019 01:47 GMT
#487
Latex is great. Drawing graphs with latex is absurd. Just use whatever and include them as images. Tikz is awesome for making pretty diagrams, but there are much better and easier ways of drawing graphs.

Yes, nobody outside of (computer) science uses it, but you're being the trained as a computer scientist, so I don't see the problem with learning it. We had to learn it in 1st year CS, and once you get the hang of it, you'll never want to use Word again ever.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-23 01:50:18
February 23 2019 01:49 GMT
#488
Well I don't use word either(unless I am forced to), I just write stuff on paper and then scan it to pdf. As long as the handwriting is legible I can't imagine latex being superior to that, but maybe I am wrong?

I suppose I would want it for publishing any papers, though...
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18190 Posts
February 23 2019 09:58 GMT
#489
On February 23 2019 10:49 travis wrote:
Well I don't use word either(unless I am forced to), I just write stuff on paper and then scan it to pdf. As long as the handwriting is legible I can't imagine latex being superior to that, but maybe I am wrong?

I suppose I would want it for publishing any papers, though...

"As long as the handwriting is legible" is the key point there, though. Remember that your professor is going to have to correct and grade this work for everybody in your class, not just you.
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
February 23 2019 18:10 GMT
#490
LaTeX is one of my hidden shames, since I use it quite a bit but have never actually spent the time to sit down and learn how it really works. In that sense, a lot of it is 'magic' to me since I mostly know the proper rituals and incantations but would have a hard time rebuilding my collection of useful patterns from scratch.

For graphs (if we're talking figures) I've never used LaTeX directly. I usually use gnuplot (ugly) and then include the PNG into the LaTeX document. There's much nicer graphing libraries out there, I've just never spent the time to find them.

For drawing graphs (if we're talking graph-theory) I've mostly used the Tikz library, as mentioned. I found the Tikz automata library very useful for drawing things like DFAs, NFAs, etc. in courses that required it.

In some math electives I took I ended up using LaTeX for all the coursework. The profs seemed to appreciate it, and I found that it actually cut down on the writing time overall.
you gotta dance
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
February 23 2019 23:19 GMT
#491
On February 24 2019 03:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I usually use gnuplot (ugly) and then include the PNG into the LaTeX document.


Gnuplot can export to vectorised formats...
maru G5L pls
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
February 26 2019 16:12 GMT
#492
I wanted to verify a true or false section on my homework that I did, it's abstract algebra groups. I just want to make sure I am understanding this stuff correctly. Note that the * denotes that the set does not contain 0

T/F:

1.) Q(under addition) us a subgroup of R (under addition): true

2.) R* (under addition) is a subgroup of R (under addition): false (no identity in R*)

3.) R* (under multiplication) us a subgroup of R (with addition): false (they need to be same operation right?)

4.) {1,-1} (under multiplication) is a subgroup of R* (under multiplication): true

5.): {2^k : k in Z} (under multiplication) is a subgroup of Q* (under multiplication): false (no zero in Q* so no inverse for 2^k... am I understanding that right?)

Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18190 Posts
February 26 2019 16:45 GMT
#493
5) seems true to me. look at it again, but the lack of 0 doesn't matter.
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
February 26 2019 17:20 GMT
#494
At first glance I would also consider 3 true.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18190 Posts
February 26 2019 17:29 GMT
#495
On February 27 2019 02:20 mahrgell wrote:
At first glance I would also consider 3 true.

While I can't remember the exact definition of a subgroup, so maybe it just isn't even defined properly if the operators are different. But mostly R* doesn't have 0, so doesn't have the ident for addition, and thus is not a group with addition, and therefore also not a subgroup.
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
February 26 2019 17:45 GMT
#496
On February 27 2019 02:29 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2019 02:20 mahrgell wrote:
At first glance I would also consider 3 true.

While I can't remember the exact definition of a subgroup, so maybe it just isn't even defined properly if the operators are different. But mostly R* doesn't have 0, so doesn't have the ident for addition, and thus is not a group with addition, and therefore also not a subgroup.

For the multiplication the 1 is the same as the 0 for the addition.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-26 17:57:15
February 26 2019 17:52 GMT
#497
On February 27 2019 02:45 mahrgell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2019 02:29 Acrofales wrote:
On February 27 2019 02:20 mahrgell wrote:
At first glance I would also consider 3 true.

While I can't remember the exact definition of a subgroup, so maybe it just isn't even defined properly if the operators are different. But mostly R* doesn't have 0, so doesn't have the ident for addition, and thus is not a group with addition, and therefore also not a subgroup.

For the multiplication the 1 is the same as the 0 for the addition.

Yes... so?

A group is not a subgroup of an other just because it is a group and the elements are a subset. It has to include the identity.


And googling it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subgroup

Including the identity is not enough either, it definitely needs to be a group under the same operator, so can't simply redefine the group operator in the subgroup. So (3) fails on both those points.
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
February 26 2019 18:55 GMT
#498
On February 27 2019 02:52 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2019 02:45 mahrgell wrote:
On February 27 2019 02:29 Acrofales wrote:
On February 27 2019 02:20 mahrgell wrote:
At first glance I would also consider 3 true.

While I can't remember the exact definition of a subgroup, so maybe it just isn't even defined properly if the operators are different. But mostly R* doesn't have 0, so doesn't have the ident for addition, and thus is not a group with addition, and therefore also not a subgroup.

For the multiplication the 1 is the same as the 0 for the addition.

Yes... so?

A group is not a subgroup of an other just because it is a group and the elements are a subset. It has to include the identity.


And googling it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subgroup

Including the identity is not enough either, it definitely needs to be a group under the same operator, so can't simply redefine the group operator in the subgroup. So (3) fails on both those points.



At least we learned a more theoretical version, where it is enough to be isomorph to a subgroup (by the your/wiki definition) of supposed supergroup to be considered a subgroup in a group theoretical point of view.
How you name your elements and ops really doesn't matter then. And then obviously your isomorphism images the identity of one group onto the identity of the other group.

Now there is a trivial isomorphism (ln(x)) between (R+\{0}, *) and (R,+).

This is in fact, what led me to my initial thought. But at least right now, I can't expand this to {R\{0},*}. Which leads me to believe that this is indeed false, just for very different reasons.


Melliflue
Profile Joined October 2012
United Kingdom1389 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-02-26 19:02:54
February 26 2019 18:58 GMT
#499
I think (3) is highlighting the issue about the operator and not the identity (Travis is correct, different operator so not a subgroup). Needing the identity was the purpose of example (2).

(5) is true and I don't know where the confusion came from. The lack of zero in Q* is irrelevant. The inverse for 2^k is 2^(-k) so you are fine when k ranges over Z.

Edit: To the above, being isomorphic to a subgroup is not the same as being a subgroup. There are times when the distinction is not important so we treat isomorphic subgroups as subgroups (mathematicians are often lazy like that). Sometimes however it can cause problems and it is important to remember they are different.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
February 27 2019 02:13 GMT
#500
ah right, the identity in 5.) is 1.. not 0. the confusion was that I was thinking 2^0 = 1 .. temporarily forgetting that the member of my group is 2^k, not k. if that confuses you don't worry about it, my thinking clearly didn't make sense. glad I posted them though!
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 32 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
All-Star Invitational
03:00
Day 2
herO vs SolarLIVE!
Clem vs Reynor
Rogue vs Oliveira
WardiTV1172
PiGStarcraft690
EnkiAlexander 115
3DClanTV 53
davetesta34
IntoTheiNu 23
LiquipediaDiscussion
AI Arena Tournament
20:00
Swiss - Round 2
Laughngamez YouTube
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft690
WinterStarcraft543
RuFF_SC2 144
IndyStarCraft 90
BRAT_OK 85
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 18329
EffOrt 118
Shuttle 79
Noble 32
ajuk12(nOOB) 22
Models 19
Icarus 9
Dota 2
monkeys_forever153
febbydoto42
LuMiX0
League of Legends
JimRising 745
C9.Mang0512
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King31
Other Games
summit1g7549
KnowMe714
minikerr22
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1854
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 75
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 60
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt431
Other Games
• Scarra1074
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5h 4m
OSC
7h 4m
Shameless vs NightMare
YoungYakov vs MaNa
Nicoract vs Jumy
Gerald vs TBD
Creator vs TBD
BSL 21
15h 4m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs DuGu
Dewalt vs Bonyth
IPSL
15h 4m
Dewalt vs Sziky
Replay Cast
1d 4h
Wardi Open
1d 7h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 12h
The PondCast
3 days
Big Brain Bouts
5 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.