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On June 06 2017 21:59 bardtown wrote:
His choice of Home Secretary:
Abbott, who will become home secretary if Labour wins the election, said in the 1984 interview that Ireland “is our struggle — every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed.”
So, yes, they actually did side with terrorists against the British state. But rather than look it up, you threaten to look it up assuming you will find that it is all right wing propaganda.
Would you say that coupling positions like these on IRA with what he said on Hezbollah, bin Laden, and his record on anti-terrorism laws is an attempt to paint him as pro-terrorist, or would you say that what I'm writing here is an ignorant strawman?
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On June 06 2017 22:11 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 21:59 bardtown wrote:
His choice of Home Secretary:
Abbott, who will become home secretary if Labour wins the election, said in the 1984 interview that Ireland “is our struggle — every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed.”
So, yes, they actually did side with terrorists against the British state. But rather than look it up, you threaten to look it up assuming you will find that it is all right wing propaganda. Would you say that coupling positions like these on IRA with what he said on Hezbollah, bin Laden, and his record on anti-terrorism laws is an attempt to paint him as pro-terrorist, or would you say that what I'm writing here is an ignorant strawman?
Yeah, more or less. Pointing out somebody's atrocious record is not the same as calling them a 'fan of terrorism'. He made a legitimate point based on fact, you paraphrased him to try and make him look silly. You're in the wrong in that situation, clearly.
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On June 06 2017 22:16 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 22:11 Nebuchad wrote:On June 06 2017 21:59 bardtown wrote:
His choice of Home Secretary:
Abbott, who will become home secretary if Labour wins the election, said in the 1984 interview that Ireland “is our struggle — every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed.”
So, yes, they actually did side with terrorists against the British state. But rather than look it up, you threaten to look it up assuming you will find that it is all right wing propaganda. Would you say that coupling positions like these on IRA with what he said on Hezbollah, bin Laden, and his record on anti-terrorism laws is an attempt to paint him as pro-terrorist, or would you say that what I'm writing here is an ignorant strawman? Yeah, more or less. Pointing out somebody's atrocious record is not the same as calling them a 'fan of terrorism'. He made a legitimate point based on fact, you paraphrased him to try and make him look silly. You're in the wrong in that situation, clearly.
But what makes his record atrocious, in that reading, is his constant siding with and helping (in the sense of not signing those laws) terrorism, is it not?
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
i genuinely fear if the race baiter abbott becomes home secretary.
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Edit: Wrong thread - Not really sure either party really has it better. The Tories have gutted police over the last few years, only averting a strike because they can't.
May's solution seems to be internet censorship and I'm not really sure what else because to me she is so incapable of independent thought that I don't know enough about the people behind her collectively to judge how else she would act.
Abbott for sure is a retard, but they way Corbyn talks, he might actually do something about the things that have seen Police numbers fall (i.e. shit working conditions).
And being a terrorist apologist, the optimistic arguement for Corbyn is that at least he might have enough insight to reach out to Imans / Mosques and Islamic communities to encourage them to preach against radicalisation and also to not encourage UK Muslims to go and fight the UKs war in the Middle East where they will become much more exposed to radical Islam.
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Holy sh**, new developments. One of the London killers was half italian and he was stopped in Bologna, which is like 30 km from where I live o.o This is a summary from Italian press:
- He was stopped at the airport and he had a backpack, his passport and a one-way ticket to Turkey.
- Police took his phone and they found pro-ISIS videos
- He said to a police officer 'I want to become a terrorist' and then immediately changed this declaration
- When his mother was informed that he was stopped at the airport, she begged the police to not let him go, because 'lately he started to say strange things'
- The police said he was not a risky person and let him go
But I guess Kwark can be happy - his rights were respected!
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No article or evidence provided to back up claim. And calls out Kwark like it would somehow be his fault Italian security services dropped the ball. The bait is strong with this one.
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United States44289 Posts
Sounds to me like what you're saying is Italian police suck.
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Our news portals say basicly the same (based on Italian sources) as SoSexy is saying. Those are in polish though,
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Finally, maybe, we can agree then. I ask you: do you believe that, after the elements I reported, the guy should have been jailed or not?
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On June 06 2017 22:46 ahswtini wrote:
i genuinely fear if the race baiter abbott becomes home secretary.
If something would make me change my mind about voting Corbyn it would be this. But then its still better than the authoritarians that Theresa May has in her cabinet.
People might laugh at Corbyn's record, but Theresa May has overseen the biggest boost in arms sales to the funders of terrorism that we've ever seen. We are literally arming our enemy and people get in a flap because Corbyn used political language in a speech inviting peace talks with Hezbollah.
I suppose if its what the Daily Mail says we should be outraged about, we should be outraged about it, right?
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On June 07 2017 00:30 SoSexy wrote:
Finally, maybe, we can agree then. I ask you: do you believe that, after the elements I reported, the guy should have been jailed or not?
Unless having videos on your phone is a crime in your country? If not, then he should not be jailed. Should he have been allowed to proceed to the UK? Nope. This is pretty clear cut. There is no evil politically correct cabal here, just human error.
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Yes, the police definitely didn't have enough elements. It's very common for many honest people to have a one way ticket to Turkey, to have ISIS videos on the phone, to tell the police you are going to be a terrorist, to have your mother beg the police officers to not let you go. We should be careful because there is the risk of innocents going to jail over similar issues! This can happen to anyone!
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On June 07 2017 00:52 SoSexy wrote:
Yes, the police definitely didn't have enough elements. /s
He should have been stopped from travelling. If he broke a law he should have been jailed. I don't know Italian law. Also Italian security services should have been informed.
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Italian police sucks a**. But they sent a report to the MI5 in April 2016 and the guy was still free roaming. There is the need of new laws for these specific issues.
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On June 07 2017 00:58 SoSexy wrote:
Italian police sucks a**. But they sent a report to the MI5 in April 2016 and the guy was still free roaming. There is the need of new laws for these specific issues.
And this begs to question: How did the Italian police obtain the information? Did they do anything that would "poison the well" for the evidence so MI5 couldn’t remove him from the country? How did they send it over? Was it sent in a mass of information or highlighted as a possible threat to UK security?
You claim MI5 dropped the ball. But Italian police could have just provided them with shit info that they couldn’t do anything with.
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On June 05 2017 23:32 Uldridge wrote:
They speak Arabic (probably more so than English), they most probably identify more with a culture other than British culture.
Send them to the land/area they most identify with.. Them being British is a poor flexibility of a nation's constitution.
It's funny how integration is such a failed social undertaking, even after the 3rd generation of the initial immigrants settling in the home country.
Multiculturalism is something I look at with optimism, but not without a healthy needed grain of skepticism.
When does the sense of identification when the fear of alienation is upon you become radicalization? Either there's something inherently flawed in the social structure that's been set up so desperately (guilt and exploitation of post-colonialism), or it's inherently human to segregate (go back to your homogenous community you're most comfortable with). Either way, it's an issue that needs to be looked at. And people just aren't doing that (enough).
As someone who grew up in London, I can quite honestly say multiculturalism is a fail overall. Certainly worked from the perspective of the elite who profit and keep the status quo from poor people being divided. Multiculturalism has succeeded in their interests.
Of course rich people in Kensington and Hampstead don't have to worry about the ghettoized, unfriendly, overpriced dirty shithole most of London has turned into where most ethnic groups can just barely stand to be in the presence of each other. Nor do college/uni liberal protesters who grew up in Oxfordshire or some equally moist area and don't really know they are born yet.
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United States44289 Posts
On June 07 2017 00:30 SoSexy wrote:
Finally, maybe, we can agree then. I ask you: do you believe that, after the elements I reported, the guy should have been jailed or not?
Not jailed. The story you just recounted didn't involve a criminal charge being filed, a court, a judge, a jury or a defence lawyer. You can't jail people without that shit.
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So basically, they were on the radar. But no evidence found so they go down the list. Italy was involved but we're also unable to give enough evidence to land criminal conviction so I guess they're shit too. Doesn't change anything and you can't just jail people without evidence of a crime.
Probably because it is impossible to watch everyone who is suspicious forever all the time.
I think the most important thing in that telegraph article was the Muslim community refusing to do their funeral rites.
I think the only point you may get where we are coming from is if we Photoshop you praying to an ISIS flag, then report you, then get you jailed indefinitely without trial.
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EPT
