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Iran + a kurdish belt around Turkey would have US control(strong word to use as far as Iran goes but still) the energy flows in Middle East. with Germany pissing off the russians, that would have US control the energy intake of the wannabee Holy Roman Empire(EU). Turkey was on EU side so they couldn't be on US side too; not that they had to because US and EU were seen as friends(but they weren't, not even by a long shot) but also because initially, US gave the go ahead to Turkey, Qatar, UAE to start messing with the Middle East. they figured some symbolic gesture would keep US involvement to an observer capacity but when US found out about EU+Turkey plans, all went to shit.
EU plan was to have Turkey be a role model for the rest of Middle East and also the N-African states; it would've democratize all of them, control them, then integrate them; yes into the EU(the refugee thing is a desire for mixing of populations in hope of future homogenization which in turn would make the people in the whole area more easily controllable). that would've been an unrivaled, unparalleled alliance of states, its economic power would've been unmatched.
US would have none of that, Russia would have none of that. US still wants its kurdish belt around Turkey, Russia still wants its Assad first then a democratic transition later. Russia has both the kurdish belt and Assad in its back pocket and US has nothing to trade for them but they still work together to combat the big bad EU+Turkey.
Turkey doesn't want a kurdish belt around them; Iran has a good kurdish minority in its north that could get ... ideas(US, in a future, could use the kurdish card to easily destabilize Iran so their current amiability is temporary at best), so in this kurdish scenario they have the same goals.
Turkey will not leave NATO(unless it disbands or gets kicked), Turkey owns NATO.
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On July 29 2016 16:58 xM(Z wrote:
EU plan was to have Turkey be a role model for the rest of Middle East and also the N-African states; it would've democratize all of them, control them, then integrate them; yes into the EU(the refugee thing is a desire for mixing of populations in hope of future homogenization which in turn would make the people in the whole area more easily controllable). that would've been an unrivaled, unparalleled alliance of states, its economic power would've been unmatched.
I'm baffled by your post to be honest. Where exactly are these executive decisions to homogenize the population of some one billion people to make them more 'controllable' for this empire of yours taken?
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in a secret bunker beneath an egyptian pyramid ... what the hell is with that question?. look at history, the only difference is that back then, the aegeans and levantines killed each other and they've been killing each other for tens of thousands of years.
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(Reuters) - Turkey's top military council promoted 99 colonels to the rank of general or admiral and put 48 generals into retirement in its annual shake-up, the military said on Friday, although the top brass was little changed after this month's failed coup attempt.
President Tayyip Erdogan approved the council's key decisions, leaving armed forces chief Hulusi Akar and the army, navy and air force commanders in their posts, Erdogan's spokesman Ibrahim Kalin separately told reporters late on Thursday.
The annual meeting of the Supreme Military Council - chaired by Prime Minister Binali Yildirim and including the top brass - followed the dishonourable discharge of nearly 1,700 military personnel over their alleged roles in the abortive putsch on July 15-16.
Erdogan, who narrowly escaped capture and possible death on the night of the coup, told Reuters in an interview last week that the military, NATO'S second biggest, needed "fresh blood".
The dishonourable discharges included around 40 percent of Turkey's admirals and generals.
A statement on the armed forces' website said that, alongside the promotion of 99 colonels, 16 generals and admirals were promoted and the terms of 20 generals and admirals were extended by a year. The statement made no reference to the coup.
Among the limited changes in the most senior commanders, the deputy armed forces chief General Yasar Guler was appointed commander of Turkey's gendarmerie force, while the head of the prestigious First Army, General Umit Dundar, replaced him as Akar's second-in-command, the presidential spokesman said. uk.mobile.reuters.com
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oh and what i don't think you people realize yet - Turkey wants to give syrian(but not only) refugees, turkish citizenship; then the EU will vote in september in favor of removing the restrictions on visas for turkish citizens(that is if Germany&Co. can bribe the other EU countries; Spain and Portugal were off to a good start there). so, ta da!.
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Dear xM(Z, I am pretty sure that the international politics is actually much more nuanced than the game of Risk you imagine it. Your post would make probably a useable pitch for an action movie, but I really don't believe that the actions of world powers are driven by such simple-minded agendas.
Anyway, I am puzzled by people who accuse the puchist to be CIA/US sock-puppets with disdain and hate. If I could chose between my country being run by US or Erdogan-as-a-dictator, I would chose US hands down. Actually a similar rhetoric is now frequently heard in my country, where people - most symphatizers of the the old Communist regime and varieties thereof - accuse west-leaning people of being "working for US interests" as if it were a bad thing. I don't place much value on the independence of my nation - I care about good living of those people.
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What good would come from a kurdish nation for the US. The kurdish territory is landlocked. You would "control" a rocky place with some oil and that's it. You would be surrounded by people who hate you after you destabilized their country. There is a distinction to be made between giving people autonomy where it's warranted and trying to create a client state to countrol the flow of the energy. If you have a burning wreck of a state like Iraq you might just want to give their people the state back and when a whole region of that country identifies as a different group of people, you might want to give them autonomy.
And about the EU part, are you high?
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On July 29 2016 17:26 xM(Z wrote: oh and what i don't think you people realize yet - Turkey wants to give syrian(but not only) refugees, turkish citizenship; then the EU will vote in september in favor of removing the restrictions on visas for turkish citizens(that is if Germany&Co. can bribe the other EU countries; Spain and Portugal were off to a good start there). so, ta da!.
That was the wet dream of some in our country but impossible level hard to execute to give citizenship for 3+ million people. It'll not simply be happening not now and not in future.
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On July 29 2016 19:03 Broetchenholer wrote: What good would come from a kurdish nation for the US. The kurdish territory is landlocked. You would "control" a rocky place with some oil and that's it. You would be surrounded by people who hate you after you destabilized their country. There is a distinction to be made between giving people autonomy where it's warranted and trying to create a client state to countrol the flow of the energy. If you have a burning wreck of a state like Iraq you might just want to give their people the state back and when a whole region of that country identifies as a different group of people, you might want to give them autonomy.
And about the EU part, are you high? every gas and oil pipe would pass through that kurdish region; that's huge - you can set prices, you can stop the flow, you own the supplier and the consumer; add on top of that an alleged US backed Gulen coup and you're set.
http://www.debatingeurope.eu/2016/06/16/how-can-democracy-best-promote-in-north-africa/ On 1 June 2016, Debating Europe attended an event held in Brussels by our partner think tank, Friends of Europe. The event brought together policymakers and experts from across Europe, Africa, and the Middle East, looking at ways to promote democracy, stability, prosperity, and peace. http://www.friendsofeurope.org/event/time-for-peace-europes-challenge-in-africa-and-the-middle-east/ or http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/neighbourhood/overview/index_en.htm The European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP) governs the EU's relations with 16 of the EU's closest Eastern and Southern Neighbours. To the South: Algeria, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Palestine*, Syria and Tunisia and to the East: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine. Russia takes part in Cross-Border Cooperation activities under the ENP and is not a part of the ENP as such. ...Under the revised ENP, stabilisation of the region, in political, economic, and security related terms, will be at the heart of the new policy. Moreover, the revised ENP puts a strong emphasis on two principles: the implementation of a differentiated approach to our Neighbours, to respect the different aspirations of our partners and to better answer EU interests and the interests of our partners; and an increased ownership by partner countries and Member States. ...The new European Neighbourhood Instrument(ENI) (€15.4 billion for the period 2014-2020) is the main financial instrument for implementing the ENP. The ENI provides the bulk of EU funding to the 16 ENP partner countries. It builds on the achievements of the previous European Neighbourhood and Partnership Instrument (ENPI) you dudes should get out of your safe place more often.
Edit: hell, it's even in its definition http://eeas.europa.eu/enp/ European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP)
Through its European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP), the EU works with its southern and eastern neighbours to achieve the closest possible political association and the greatest possible degree of economic integration. This goal builds on common interests and on values — democracy, the rule of law, respect for human rights, and social cohesion. The ENP is a key part of the European Union's foreign policy.
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On July 29 2016 11:43 lord_nibbler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 10:22 Aegwynn wrote: Shootdown made by Gulen's pilot so that covers up the missing parts because it is not a normal thing to do. That is total bullshit by every logic. IF the pilot acted on his own, he would have been jailed long ago! There is no fucking way Erdogan would have accepted all the trouble with Russia just to protect one pilot who made a mistake / acted against his orders (even more so, if said pilot is Gulen). That conspiracy does not make any sense. And honestly Aegwynn, if you really believe that lie, you are way to gullible... Erdogan and Prime Minister took the responsibility, you can't diplomatically say ; "oh sorry our pilot acted on his own" , plus they didn't even know that if that was a mistake or intentional by the pilot
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By the way the pilots who shot Russian plane is in jail with the other coup involvers
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Haha that guy's life must be very stressful
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The EU can't even "homogenize" the population of it's core states. What makes you think it would even try to assimilate current syria, former syria or syria that might emerge after the crisis.
There is an obvious desire to find friends in your neighbours and stabilize them for your own safety. That the EU tries to promote their way of living in other parts of the world does not mean it wants to bring immigrants into their countries as a first step for assimilation of the arabic neighbours.
The EU is ruled by governments that want to be reelected first and not create a new world order and while assimilating the oil producing countries sounds great if you ignore the terror and the instability, that would need long (looooong) term thinking. And there is no long term thinking in politics. There are 4 more years.
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On July 29 2016 19:26 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 19:03 Broetchenholer wrote: What good would come from a kurdish nation for the US. The kurdish territory is landlocked. You would "control" a rocky place with some oil and that's it. You would be surrounded by people who hate you after you destabilized their country. There is a distinction to be made between giving people autonomy where it's warranted and trying to create a client state to countrol the flow of the energy. If you have a burning wreck of a state like Iraq you might just want to give their people the state back and when a whole region of that country identifies as a different group of people, you might want to give them autonomy.
And about the EU part, are you high? every gas and oil pipe would pass through that kurdish region; that's huge - you can set prices, you can stop the flow, you own the supplier and the consumer; add on top of that an alleged US backed Gulen coup and you're set. http://www.debatingeurope.eu/2016/06/16/how-can-democracy-best-promote-in-north-africa/ Show nested quote +On 1 June 2016, Debating Europe attended an event held in Brussels by our partner think tank, Friends of Europe. The event brought together policymakers and experts from across Europe, Africa, and the Middle East, looking at ways to promote democracy, stability, prosperity, and peace. http://www.friendsofeurope.org/event/time-for-peace-europes-challenge-in-africa-and-the-middle-east/ or http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/neighbourhood/overview/index_en.htm Show nested quote +The European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP) governs the EU's relations with 16 of the EU's closest Eastern and Southern Neighbours. To the South: Algeria, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Palestine*, Syria and Tunisia and to the East: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine. Russia takes part in Cross-Border Cooperation activities under the ENP and is not a part of the ENP as such. ... Show nested quote +Under the revised ENP, stabilisation of the region, in political, economic, and security related terms, will be at the heart of the new policy. Moreover, the revised ENP puts a strong emphasis on two principles: the implementation of a differentiated approach to our Neighbours, to respect the different aspirations of our partners and to better answer EU interests and the interests of our partners; and an increased ownership by partner countries and Member States. ... Show nested quote +The new European Neighbourhood Instrument(ENI) (€15.4 billion for the period 2014-2020) is the main financial instrument for implementing the ENP. The ENI provides the bulk of EU funding to the 16 ENP partner countries. It builds on the achievements of the previous European Neighbourhood and Partnership Instrument (ENPI) you dudes should get out of your safe place more often. Edit: hell, it's even in its definition http://eeas.europa.eu/enp/ Show nested quote +European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP)
Through its European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP), the EU works with its southern and eastern neighbours to achieve the closest possible political association and the greatest possible degree of economic integration. This goal builds on common interests and on values — democracy, the rule of law, respect for human rights, and social cohesion. The ENP is a key part of the European Union's foreign policy.
I am not quite sure what you actually want to say here. To me that sounds like "Ok, this is a way we figured out to coherently organize out foreign policy with our closest neighbours."
You seem to think that what you just quoted is incredibly sinister and proof of some kind of evil plot. I have no idea where you get that idea from or how you interpret those sentences to get to that conclusion.
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http://www.thecaspiantimes.com/gulenists-can-stage-coup-kyrgyzstan-turkeys-foreign-minister-mevlut-cavusoglu/ Another thing about Gulen Movement is their schools are EVERYWHERE. They have schools even in every little 3rd world African countries. They are not allowed in Russia for many years though, wonder why? They are most probably used for gathering global intelligence + having some agents in some positions as much as possible. Even though it is hard to believe that they are strong enough like they are in Turkey to influence goverments, they have strong presence in Central Asian and Balkan countries.
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On July 29 2016 21:21 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 19:26 xM(Z wrote:On July 29 2016 19:03 Broetchenholer wrote: What good would come from a kurdish nation for the US. The kurdish territory is landlocked. You would "control" a rocky place with some oil and that's it. You would be surrounded by people who hate you after you destabilized their country. There is a distinction to be made between giving people autonomy where it's warranted and trying to create a client state to countrol the flow of the energy. If you have a burning wreck of a state like Iraq you might just want to give their people the state back and when a whole region of that country identifies as a different group of people, you might want to give them autonomy.
And about the EU part, are you high? every gas and oil pipe would pass through that kurdish region; that's huge - you can set prices, you can stop the flow, you own the supplier and the consumer; add on top of that an alleged US backed Gulen coup and you're set. http://www.debatingeurope.eu/2016/06/16/how-can-democracy-best-promote-in-north-africa/ On 1 June 2016, Debating Europe attended an event held in Brussels by our partner think tank, Friends of Europe. The event brought together policymakers and experts from across Europe, Africa, and the Middle East, looking at ways to promote democracy, stability, prosperity, and peace. http://www.friendsofeurope.org/event/time-for-peace-europes-challenge-in-africa-and-the-middle-east/ or http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/neighbourhood/overview/index_en.htm The European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP) governs the EU's relations with 16 of the EU's closest Eastern and Southern Neighbours. To the South: Algeria, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Palestine*, Syria and Tunisia and to the East: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine. Russia takes part in Cross-Border Cooperation activities under the ENP and is not a part of the ENP as such. ... Under the revised ENP, stabilisation of the region, in political, economic, and security related terms, will be at the heart of the new policy. Moreover, the revised ENP puts a strong emphasis on two principles: the implementation of a differentiated approach to our Neighbours, to respect the different aspirations of our partners and to better answer EU interests and the interests of our partners; and an increased ownership by partner countries and Member States. ... The new European Neighbourhood Instrument(ENI) (€15.4 billion for the period 2014-2020) is the main financial instrument for implementing the ENP. The ENI provides the bulk of EU funding to the 16 ENP partner countries. It builds on the achievements of the previous European Neighbourhood and Partnership Instrument (ENPI) you dudes should get out of your safe place more often. Edit: hell, it's even in its definition http://eeas.europa.eu/enp/ European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP)
Through its European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP), the EU works with its southern and eastern neighbours to achieve the closest possible political association and the greatest possible degree of economic integration. This goal builds on common interests and on values — democracy, the rule of law, respect for human rights, and social cohesion. The ENP is a key part of the European Union's foreign policy. I am not quite sure what you actually want to say here. To me that sounds like "Ok, this is a way we figured out to coherently organize out foreign policy with our closest neighbours." You seem to think that what you just quoted is incredibly sinister and proof of some kind of evil plot. I have no idea where you get that idea from or how you interpret those sentences to get to that conclusion. what plot dude, i just said EU wants to enlarge still, through the middle east and needs Syria. if you want plots, figure out by yourself how do those countries got to be so open and welcome towards democracy; why is it working now but wasn't working before.
EU is a geopolitical actor who fights and kills for its gain; its corporate gain. (but feel free to point out the plot and its evilness here)
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On July 29 2016 19:08 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 17:26 xM(Z wrote: oh and what i don't think you people realize yet - Turkey wants to give syrian(but not only) refugees, turkish citizenship; then the EU will vote in september in favor of removing the restrictions on visas for turkish citizens(that is if Germany&Co. can bribe the other EU countries; Spain and Portugal were off to a good start there). so, ta da!. That was the wet dream of some in our country but impossible level hard to execute to give citizenship for 3+ million people. It'll not simply be happening not now and not in future. Especially considering the fact that non-citizen syrians are ironically first class citizens in the country.
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On July 29 2016 21:29 Aegwynn wrote:http://www.thecaspiantimes.com/gulenists-can-stage-coup-kyrgyzstan-turkeys-foreign-minister-mevlut-cavusoglu/Another thing about Gulen Movement is their schools are EVERYWHERE. They have schools even in every little 3rd world African countries. They are not allowed in Russia for many years though, wonder why? They are most probably used for gathering global intelligence + having some agents in some positions as much as possible. Even though it is hard to believe that they are strong enough like they are in Turkey to influence goverments, they have strong presence in Central Asian and Balkan countries.
come again now?
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