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Read this before posting. Stay civil. As the news continues to develop, please remember no NSFW images or video. Thank you. | ||
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pretender58
Germany713 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:12 SC2Toastie wrote: Nor for me, but I'd like to skim over the paper if you are willing to publish it, I find it a very interesting subject  !he already has http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/474855-my-research-paper-on-face-of-muhammad-controversy | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7897 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:01 SixStrings wrote: And I greatly appreciate your post. Last time I said this I was banned for two weeks, but you can't just pretend this has nothing to do with Islam. Yes, these acts are perpetrated by extremists, but at the same time, this is exactly what the religious manifest of three billion people dictates. The fact that most of these three billion people are sane, non-violent and decent people changes nothing about the fact that subversion, violence and suppression against non-Muslims are exactly what the Quran dictates. Please keep your bigotry to yourself or to another thread. And in case you don't know, the Quran also says that who kills a man kills the whole of humanity S5 V32. So it says everything and its opposite as already mentioned in this thread. If you guys can fucking stop with this bullshit and get back to what is happening that would be appreciated. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:14 pretender58 wrote: he already has http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/474855-my-research-paper-on-face-of-muhammad-controversy I see, thank you for showing me and thanks to Travis for sharing! | ||
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:07 SC2Toastie wrote: I have never read the Quran, but from hearing from others, actions like this are highly frowned upon. The only reason ISIS gets any support in the region is that ISIS government, whilst ruling by fear, is at least more stable than what Iraq and Syria used to be. Muslims all over the world condemn this kind of behavior and I'm pretty sure the Quran says nothing about slaughtering innocent people for not believing in the Islam. Islam is a lot more familiar to Christianity/Judism than we usually think. Also the 3 billion stat is pulled out of your arse. Yes, you're right about the 3 billion, I don't know why that number was floating in my mind. It's closer to two billion than three, actually. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:16 SixStrings wrote: Yes, you're right about the 3 billion, I don't know why that number was floating in my mind. It's closer to two billion than three, actually. Wikipedia says 1.57 billion (2009). | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:01 SixStrings wrote: And I greatly appreciate your post. Last time I said this I was banned for two weeks, but you can't just pretend this has nothing to do with Islam. Yes, these acts are perpetrated by extremists, but at the same time, this is exactly what the religious manifest of three billion people dictates. The fact that most of these three billion people are sane, non-violent and decent people changes nothing about the fact that subversion, violence and suppression against non-Muslims are exactly what the Quran dictates. Well first, it's about 1.57 billion people that follow Islam, not 3 billion. Don't pull numbers out of your ass, just look them up it's not hard. Second, I agree with you. The "bad apples" excuse only gets people so far. Similarly to what the U.S. is currently dealing with regarding police brutality, the "bad apples" excuse only applies when they are isolated incidents. Also similar to police brutality in the U.S., I don't think you can call Islamic extremism like this attack an isolated incident anymore. It doesn't matter that 99.999% of Muslims are peaceful and abhor this behavior, there are enough people committing atrocities in the name of Islam that I feel it's appropriate to have the discussion about why it is happening and what can be done about it. Trying to completely separate these acts from the religion they are performed in the name of is just as extreme as condemning an entire religion for the actions of a few individuals. It's a discussion that should be taking place, but moral relativists quickly dismiss it and give themselves a gold star for being tolerant. | ||
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
I just found a 1,8 billion figure on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups But whatever, my first 3 billion were the figure I had false memorised at some point. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
This has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Stop derailing. Consider this a group warning ^^ | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
I know that you're not supposed to criticize the prophet and make drawings of him and whatnot, but that doesn't seem enough reason to obsess about cartoonists. Maybe it's just random? Some group at one point decided to target cartoonists and then, lacking creativity, other terrorists just decided to go with that? It's just so weird. Condolences to the victims' families, in any case. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1056 Posts
On January 08 2015 02:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Also if it is found out that these gunmen(which is being said showed signs of professional training) came via Syria through Turkey. Holy hell... Who reported that? That's pure speculation at this point.They have yet to be identified! It's the usual route for Syria returners, yes, but nothing has been proven. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:19 ZasZ. wrote: Well first, it's about 1.57 billion people that follow Islam, not 3 billion. Don't pull numbers out of your ass, just look them up it's not hard. Second, I agree with you. The "bad apples" excuse only gets people so far. Similarly to what the U.S. is currently dealing with regarding police brutality, the "bad apples" excuse only applies when they are isolated incidents. Also similar to police brutality in the U.S., I don't think you can call Islamic extremism like this attack an isolated incident anymore. It doesn't matter that 99.999% of Muslims are peaceful and abhor this behavior, there are enough people committing atrocities in the name of Islam that I feel it's appropriate to have the discussion about why it is happening and what can be done about it. Trying to completely separate these acts from the religion they are performed in the name of is just as extreme as condemning an entire religion for the actions of a few individuals. It's a discussion that should be taking place, but moral relativists quickly dismiss it and give themselves a gold star for being tolerant. You say that like it is dirty. Islam consists of tons of smaller religions. It is not one united religion and you cannot look at muslims as a homogenous group. I really am of the opinion you cannot hold the religion of Islam responsible for these sorts of attacks. It's extremists that misinterpret the Quran, that are influencable by preaches. I have to say claims like you make, to me personally, seem like more of a case of you being poorly informed and influenced by extreme right politicians and the general poor quality of most of todays media. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7897 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:23 Grumbels wrote: I really don't understand the motivation for this attack. The fixation on cartoonists is one of the weirdest things about this branch of Muslim terrorism and I don't understand the logic behind the targeting at all. I'm going to chalk it up to some notion that terrorists are not the most, er, clear-minded of individuals, but I would still like to have a better idea of what motivates them. Like, the 9/11 attack was at least logical from the pov of a terrorist. I know that you're not supposed to criticize the prophet and make drawings of him and whatnot, but that doesn't seem enough reason to obsess about cartoonists. Maybe it's just random? Some group at one point decided to target cartoonists and then, lacking creativity, other terrorists just decided to go with that? It's just so weird. Condolences to the victims, in any case. Because they are the one people that expose their ridicule and their pettiness. When Le Pen says that Islam is a threat to society or whatever, or when people in this very thread make the insult to 1,5 billion people by associating them with those bastards, islamists are very happy. They are looking for a war, they get it. They are looking for a first degree dumb islam where you take everything literally and they are looking to recruit young people for whom being an islamist is being a rebel. Now when a cartoonist shows them as medieval morons with no brain, no culture and only being vaguely ridiculous sectarian bloodthirsty losers, then they get really threatened. And they kill, because that's the only thing they can actually do... | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:23 Grumbels wrote: I really don't understand the motivation for this attack. The fixation on cartoonists is one of the weirdest things about this branch of Muslim terrorism and I don't understand the logic behind the targeting at all. I'm going to chalk it up to some notion that terrorists are not the most, er, clear-minded of individuals, but I would still like to have a better idea of what motivates them. Like, the 9/11 attack was at least logical from the pov of a terrorist. I know that you're not supposed to criticize the prophet and make drawings of him and whatnot, but that doesn't seem enough reason to obsess about cartoonists. Maybe it's just random? Some group at one point decided to target cartoonists and then, lacking creativity, other terrorists just decided to go with that? It's just so weird. Condolences to the victim's families, in any case. It does seem to be almost a stereotypical point of friction for continental Europe and portions of its Muslim community, it was a Danish cartoonist a few years ago was it not? | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
What a 180. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:23 Grumbels wrote: I really don't understand the motivation for this attack. The fixation on cartoonists is one of the weirdest things about this branch of Muslim terrorism and I don't understand the logic behind the targeting at all. I'm going to chalk it up to some notion that terrorists are not the most, er, clear-minded of individuals, but I would still like to have a better idea of what motivates them. Like, the 9/11 attack was at least logical from the pov of a terrorist. I know that you're not supposed to criticize the prophet and make drawings of him and whatnot, but that doesn't seem enough reason to obsess about cartoonists. Maybe it's just random? Some group at one point decided to target cartoonists and then, lacking creativity, other terrorists just decided to go with that? It's just so weird. Condolences to the victim's families, in any case. Terrorists attack a satirical newspaper. People are angry because it is a newspaper, and thus touches the freedom of speech and freedom of the press (unlike if they had attacked, say, a far-right political group). People get angry at Muslim people because the terrorists claim to act according to whatever reading of the Quran they chose to understand. Intolerance rises both ways : non-extremists Muslim people are more likely to become extremists if they are segregated by the majority. More people go to Syria and other countries terrorists are based in, in order to fight for terrorists groups. I think that's what they expect(ed) to happen with attacks like that. Apparently it's not what's happening, at least for now. edit : and what Biff said too | ||
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Holy_AT
Austria978 Posts
On January 08 2015 03:23 Grumbels wrote: I really don't understand the motivation for this attack. The fixation on cartoonists is one of the weirdest things about this branch of Muslim terrorism and I don't understand the logic behind the targeting at all. I'm going to chalk it up to some notion that terrorists are not the most, er, clear-minded of individuals, but I would still like to have a better idea of what motivates them. Like, the 9/11 attack was at least logical from the pov of a terrorist. I know that you're not supposed to criticize the prophet and make drawings of him and whatnot, but that doesn't seem enough reason to obsess about cartoonists. Maybe it's just random? Some group at one point decided to target cartoonists and then, lacking creativity, other terrorists just decided to go with that? It's just so weird. Condolences to the victim's families, in any case. Maybe they are targeting a pig farmer next... who knows. Or we should make a contest for the best Mohamed cartoon on Facebook, maybe they will go for Mark Zuckerberg next? | ||
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Aeromi
France14460 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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Pino
1032 Posts
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