EPTBoth sides will have to sit down and negotiate an exit from the situation... If they don't want to, they will be forced internationally. The police brutality just made the spanish position for the negotiations a lot weaker.
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 956
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
Both sides will have to sit down and negotiate an exit from the situation... If they don't want to, they will be forced internationally. The police brutality just made the spanish position for the negotiations a lot weaker. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10137 Posts
Mariano Rajoy response was totally speaking to its base, but to be honest everyone is just shouting for their bases. That's only what matters in this, how much political gain you will get from the shitshow and make people forget about PPs or CIUs corruption cases. Meanwhile both populations get used like the retards they are. | ||
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Espers
United Kingdom606 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28738 Posts
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PobTheCad
Australia893 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On October 02 2017 10:48 PobTheCad wrote: Another nail in the coffin of the broken EU project. Much as I wish I could agree with this it's more like a drop in the bucket that will make things slightly more annoying. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On October 02 2017 10:48 PobTheCad wrote: Another nail in the coffin of the broken EU project. I don't understand what the EU has to do with this. This is a Spanish matter, the EU has no clear position to take here and the secessionist movement does not seem to be opposed to the EU. The idea of Europe that at the same time has strong vertical integration (military, fiscal budget), weaker nation states, but stronger regional autonomy ("city state model" / "Europe of regions") has actually been around for a while. You could actually say that dissolution of the nation state and replacing it with strong but limited governance at the top, and broad participation at the bottom is pretty much the 'European utopia' | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18206 Posts
On October 02 2017 10:48 PobTheCad wrote: Another nail in the coffin of the broken EU project. Except staying in the EU as an independent nation is the majority opinion amongst Catalan independentists (insofar as that can be polled accurately). Regardless of how realistic that option is, it's what they want, because EU is overwhelmingly seen as a good thing in Spain. Catalan independence is purely an internal matter in that sense. | ||
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PobTheCad
Australia893 Posts
On October 02 2017 10:54 Nyxisto wrote: I don't understand what the EU has to do with this. This is a Spanish matter, the EU has no clear position to take here and the secessionist movement does not seem to be opposed to the EU. The idea of Europe that at the same time has strong vertical integration (military, fiscal budget), weaker nation states, but stronger regional autonomy ("city state model" / "Europe of regions") has actually been around for a while. You could actually say that dissolution of the nation state and replacing it with strong but limited governance at the top, and broad participation at the bottom is pretty much the 'European utopia' The far left rag The Independent thinks that it's bigger than Brexit - www.independent.co.uk/voices/catalonia-catalan-referendum-spain-eu-economic-powerhouse-brexit-european-union-a7975766.html?amp Consider this : Spain has a weak banking system.Catalonia seceeds and refuses to take on it's share of the debts.The economically strongest region.What happens to Spanish bonds and Spanish bank shares? Bank runs are a real chance. | ||
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Furikawari
France2522 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10842 Posts
Iirc giving Catalonia the same rights as the Basques now have, at latest when the Basques got them, would have solved most of this some time ago? But well, stupid Catalans tought that bombing would not be the one true way to get some more independence/rights from spain... Now its just a giant shitshow and i don't see how this can end good for Spain. It is lose/lose for the spanish goverment because it is against any actual solution. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10137 Posts
And that's why i think the PP isn't really losing with this. Their electorate is happier than ever, corruption is not talked anymore, and they had been for years doing this because they know Catalan independentism isn't going away, the only thing.that can go away in the long run is their status as economical horse of the state, and make Madrid be that one. They had put in place plenty of laws which would portray or make Madrid as the biggest contributor to redistribution, but in reality they are just cooking the books. Atleast short-term. | ||
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pmh
1399 Posts
On October 02 2017 10:51 LegalLord wrote: Much as I wish I could agree with this it's more like a drop in the bucket that will make things slightly more annoying. I don't know,this is pretty bad imo. How can eu unite when countrys itself cant keep them from falling apart (well not yet but I don't see how this is encouraging in any way,i think its more then a drop. its a symptom of something deeper) | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10842 Posts
Imho its more important to feel european than to feel spanish/british/whatever and atm i don't see a long standing strong independence movement that is anti Eu? | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On October 03 2017 00:39 pmh wrote: I don't know,this is pretty bad imo. How can eu unite when countrys itself cant keep them from falling apart (well not yet but I don't see how this is encouraging in any way,i think its more then a drop. its a symptom of something deeper) Symptom of what exactly ? Some guys think that they have the right to take some teritory and to create their own country. The state that owns the teritory disagrees and conflict happens. Pretty simple. And what do you mean by saying "How can eu unite" ? It's pretty united even right now. Also let me remind you that Europe was in constant war for the past 5k+ years. We have war on the continent even right now. In every country there are groups of people that are not exactly happy with the current political map. Some of them decided to take action, but I can't see how that is related to the EU and it's unity. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9270 Posts
On October 03 2017 02:24 Velr wrote: For most countries that have these issues these are old issues, some just got fired up again while others went to rest (for now). Imho its more important to feel european than to feel spanish/british/whatever and atm i don't see a long standing strong independence movement that is anti Eu? Let's see (Non-Europeans don't vote please) Poll: What feels more important? Being European (20) Being [your nationality] (9) 29 total votes Your vote: What feels more important? Obviously you can be both, but I'm curious which is more important to you guys. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6262 Posts
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