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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On May 08 2017 05:57 Gorsameth wrote: "My candidate lost, burn it all!" we saw the same from Bernie bro's who wanted to vote Trump after Hillary won the Primary. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/worldburn-top.jpg?quality=100&w=650) Well, there are always stupid voters. If everyone was intelligent, election wouldn't be split in so many parties.  User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
I hope macron slashes the regulations around the labor market. I remember begging for work in France for months before being allowed to go clean out industrial ovens with chemicals. One of the most disgusting things I've ever done. I am now in Colorado and got two job offers in weeks. For good-paying work too. I've been working hard and well and my boss loves me for it. they're taking short-cuts in my training so I get closer to my raise every day. this is the USA. thank god. No one in France is hiring because it's a fucking LIABILITY to hire anyone. It's not like the USA is horrible for workers either. Unemployment in Colorado is at a record low, pushing up wages and making it easier for people to find good work. I love my fucking capitalism. Fuck the labor market and social acquis. fuck mélenchon. he's an idiot who doesn't understand what real work is. fuck him, fuck him sideways, may he go back to that stupid red cav of his. fucking communist. the french already profit from free health-care. the french already have free education. the french already have a reduced carbon foot-print. fuck mélenchon, he's not needed. we need for france to move its fucking ass towards something more liberal and right wing. France is already a great nation in many regards, we have the best social services anyone could ask for. My poor American friends have tears in their eyes when I told them what my tuition cost me. And the French are STILL NOT SATISFIED with their social benefits? HOW FUCKING LAZY and GREEDY CAN YOU GET god FUCKING DAMN it caps and rants because i legitimately feel it's justified. i cannot fathom or begin to understand the menatlity of mélenchon voters. may their lazy asses remain unemployed. I literally, sincerely, truthfully ask for some French leftist to look me in the face and tell me what a miserable existence they lead. They have everything for free. they ask for more. disgusting. despicable. all my friends are in debt to pay for their studies and the french are whining that they don't have enough social benefits. makes me want to puke | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eBnBTnD.jpg) | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On May 08 2017 07:18 Incognoto wrote: I always laugh when the French start talking about ecology. We are powered with NUCLEAR power. Our Carbon footprint is one of the cleanest in the world. ecology isn't a moot point but it sure as hell isn't a big a deal as other issues in France. I hope macron slashes the regulations around the labor market. I remember begging for work in France for months before being allowed to go clean out industrial ovens with chemicals. One of the most disgusting things I've ever done. I am now in Colorado and got two job offers in weeks. For good-paying work too. I've been working hard and well and my boss loves me for it. they're taking short-cuts in my training so I get closer to my raise every day. this is the USA. thank god. No one in France is hiring because it's a fucking LIABILITY to hire anyone. It's not like the USA is horrible for workers either. Unemployment in Colorado is at a record low, pushing up wages and making it easier for people to find good work. I love my fucking capitalism. Fuck the labor market and social acquis. fuck mélenchon. he's an idiot who doesn't understand what real work is. fuck him, fuck him sideways, may he go back to that stupid red cav of his. fucking communist. the french already profit from free health-care. the french already have free education. the french already have a reduced carbon foot-print. fuck mélenchon, he's not needed. we need for france to move its fucking ass towards something more liberal and right wing. France is already a great nation in many regards, we have the best social services anyone could ask for. My poor American friends have tears in their eyes when I told them what my tuition cost me. And the French are STILL NOT SATISFIED with their social benefits? HOW FUCKING LAZY and GREEDY CAN YOU GET god FUCKING DAMN it caps and rants because i legitimately feel it's justified. i cannot fathom or begin to understand the menatlity of mélenchon voters. may their lazy asses remain unemployed. I literally, sincerely, truthfully ask for some French leftist to look me in the face and tell me what a miserable existence they lead. They have everything for free. they ask for more. disgusting. despicable. all my friends are in debt to pay for their studies and the french are whining that they don't have enough social benefits. makes me want to puke While I agree with you to some extent, there is a certain disconnect in your post. Yes many of the systems of labor protection make it difficult (or at the very least risky) to hire new people, but those unemployed youths are not the ones voting to keep the status quo as it is. The people who have a job (or even more the people who worked a job for 30 years and then stopped working and are receiving their pensions now) are the ones who vote "everything should remain as it is". The problem is that most of the young people who cannot see a way where they can ever achieve as much as their parents generation did do not see a reasonable party to vote for currently (and frankly if we are looking at the french election we just discussed I honestly have no idea who I would vote for. Macron might be centrist and pro-europe but his reform plans and past reforms don't really inspire confidence in me). So they simply "protest" vote someone and say the whole system is corrupt and broken, because from their perspective it is. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On May 08 2017 04:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You sound fairly jaded. Obama happened (which I personally would consider a very successful president). What makes you certain he can't turn out to be alright? Yup, he does. Yay Jaded ? I am. Of course I am. The seeds of the far-right are now deeply rooted into the French people, with ideas such as xenophobia, racism, anti-europeanism, narrow-mindedness or refusal of innovation becoming more and more common and accepted. The left is as divided as ever, incapable of not fighting over the pettiest things, and is now spearheaded by the most un-left thing ever : a single, authoritarian and charismatic leader supported not by a Party but by a "movement". The conservative right, facing an existential crisis, is going to fall into pieces, reinforcing the far-right in the process. Meanwhile, a liberal somehow got elected in the most anti-liberal of European countries, and while I do not doubt of his skills as a President, chances are that he'll be facing full-blown resistance from the radical left of Mélenchon, the far-right of Le Pen, and the remnants of the Fillonist Catholic traditionalists, as they'll probably follow the goal of "completely block Macron from doing anything" instead of "try to work out acceptable compromises with Macron". Oh, and I forgot to mention that said liberal is apparently the only one who gives two fucks about trying to change the EU without creating an unprecedented political crisis. Considering his proposals are not very ambitious, that's worrying. So, yeah, Macron can turn out to be alright, I guess, though since Obama led to Trump I hope Macron won't lead to Marion Maréchal-Le Pen or some shit. That doesn't change the fact that France is, at its core, condemned to fail, because of its constant spirit of conflict, worship of the State and the Nation, strange hate towards decentralization of powers, and rotten nationalistic undertones present in just about every political project from far-left to far-right. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 08 2017 08:07 OtherWorld wrote: Jaded ? I am. Of course I am. The seeds of the far-right are now deeply rooted into the French people, with ideas such as xenophobia, racism, anti-europeanism, narrow-mindedness or refusal of innovation becoming more and more common and accepted. The left is as divided as ever, incapable of not fighting over the pettiest things, and is now spearheaded by the most un-left thing ever : a single, authoritarian and charismatic leader supported not by a Party but by a "movement". The conservative right, facing an existential crisis, is going to fall into pieces, reinforcing the far-right in the process. Meanwhile, a liberal somehow got elected in the most anti-liberal of European countries, and while I do not doubt of his skills as a President, chances are that he'll be facing full-blown resistance from the radical left of Mélenchon, the far-right of Le Pen, and the remnants of the Fillonist Catholic traditionalists, as they'll probably follow the goal of "completely block Macron from doing anything" instead of "try to work out acceptable compromises with Macron". If he doesn't get a majority alone, Macron will find enough right-wing “social-democrats” + center-right + moderate right people to govern against the country. The mainstream right was ready to vote the first version of the labour bill before the few cosmetic concessions which made them yell that the government had yielded to the left, thus we can't vote this text anymore, etc. Macron won't have this vague mercy (to make cosmetic concessions) and there will be high pressure on the moderate sectors of the right to collaborate, if only because of the 2022 FN threat. Maybe the hardcore right will want to go full sabotage but I don't see why the moderate wing would do it. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
You can't just neglect the migration crisis, terrorism, the economic crisis after 2008, the Brexit and Trump vote and so on. In many ways the environment was perfectly set up for a huge FN gain, there was a huge momentum for it just based on external factors alone and I think just displaying it as a result of French domestic politics is misleading. It's not clear whether all these things will line up like they did in 2022 again, French politics aside. It's fine to criticise the establishment but you should at least differentiate between home grown reasons for discontent and factors that the government little control over. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
Anyway... Macron's presidency is not a prospect which excites me. His campaign was one of marketing, not political tendencies. He didn't publish his program until 45 days before the first round. And while on paper it isn't disgusting, the real battle begins now as the legislatives are going to be far more decisive than the presidential. This election was only about keeping Le Pen out. The next one will be about giving - or not - Macron a mandate and the power to enact his program. Time will tell. Myself I'm not sure who I'll vote for. One thing for sure is that the political landscape just got turned on its head, and that will be interesting to follow. | ||
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
On May 08 2017 07:18 Incognoto wrote: I always laugh when the French start talking about ecology. We are powered with NUCLEAR power. Our Carbon footprint is one of the cleanest in the world. ecology isn't a moot point but it sure as hell isn't a big a deal as other issues in France. I hope macron slashes the regulations around the labor market. I remember begging for work in France for months before being allowed to go clean out industrial ovens with chemicals. One of the most disgusting things I've ever done. I am now in Colorado and got two job offers in weeks. For good-paying work too. I've been working hard and well and my boss loves me for it. they're taking short-cuts in my training so I get closer to my raise every day. this is the USA. thank god. No one in France is hiring because it's a fucking LIABILITY to hire anyone. It's not like the USA is horrible for workers either. Unemployment in Colorado is at a record low, pushing up wages and making it easier for people to find good work. I love my fucking capitalism. Fuck the labor market and social acquis. fuck mélenchon. he's an idiot who doesn't understand what real work is. fuck him, fuck him sideways, may he go back to that stupid red cav of his. fucking communist. the french already profit from free health-care. the french already have free education. the french already have a reduced carbon foot-print. fuck mélenchon, he's not needed. we need for france to move its fucking ass towards something more liberal and right wing. France is already a great nation in many regards, we have the best social services anyone could ask for. My poor American friends have tears in their eyes when I told them what my tuition cost me. And the French are STILL NOT SATISFIED with their social benefits? HOW FUCKING LAZY and GREEDY CAN YOU GET god FUCKING DAMN it caps and rants because i legitimately feel it's justified. i cannot fathom or begin to understand the menatlity of mélenchon voters. may their lazy asses remain unemployed. I literally, sincerely, truthfully ask for some French leftist to look me in the face and tell me what a miserable existence they lead. They have everything for free. they ask for more. disgusting. despicable. all my friends are in debt to pay for their studies and the french are whining that they don't have enough social benefits. makes me want to puke Can you write all of these in french, especially the last part, I'll send it to my girlfriend.. (It will sound a lot sexier I sense it..) I completely agree with you, after staying 2 months in Liverpool, France felt like the best place on earth. Very cheap internet and phone bills, very good and cheap wine compared to England, when I got sick from the water they treated me for free in the hospital (in Orleans) and NO WAY in the states you can get that service for free. Only thing bothered me and would probably made me crazy if I was a leftist is food prices in FR, they give you almost nothing, and get crazy money for a decent plate. But I believe that's not a French problem, but whole Europe suffers it.You can never get full, euboys don't like eating I believe. (except Bulgaria, boy, the only place that I couldn't finish my plate!) Here, a good flood for on Macron's expected foreign policy. Can we read it as France will push some Nato forces to intervene in Syria? | ||
Poopi
France12886 Posts
On May 08 2017 07:18 Incognoto wrote: I always laugh when the French start talking about ecology. We are powered with NUCLEAR power. Our Carbon footprint is one of the cleanest in the world. ecology isn't a moot point but it sure as hell isn't a big a deal as other issues in France. I hope macron slashes the regulations around the labor market. I remember begging for work in France for months before being allowed to go clean out industrial ovens with chemicals. One of the most disgusting things I've ever done. I am now in Colorado and got two job offers in weeks. For good-paying work too. I've been working hard and well and my boss loves me for it. they're taking short-cuts in my training so I get closer to my raise every day. this is the USA. thank god. No one in France is hiring because it's a fucking LIABILITY to hire anyone. It's not like the USA is horrible for workers either. Unemployment in Colorado is at a record low, pushing up wages and making it easier for people to find good work. I love my fucking capitalism. Fuck the labor market and social acquis. fuck mélenchon. he's an idiot who doesn't understand what real work is. fuck him, fuck him sideways, may he go back to that stupid red cav of his. fucking communist. the french already profit from free health-care. the french already have free education. the french already have a reduced carbon foot-print. fuck mélenchon, he's not needed. we need for france to move its fucking ass towards something more liberal and right wing. France is already a great nation in many regards, we have the best social services anyone could ask for. My poor American friends have tears in their eyes when I told them what my tuition cost me. And the French are STILL NOT SATISFIED with their social benefits? HOW FUCKING LAZY and GREEDY CAN YOU GET god FUCKING DAMN it caps and rants because i legitimately feel it's justified. i cannot fathom or begin to understand the menatlity of mélenchon voters. may their lazy asses remain unemployed. I literally, sincerely, truthfully ask for some French leftist to look me in the face and tell me what a miserable existence they lead. They have everything for free. they ask for more. disgusting. despicable. all my friends are in debt to pay for their studies and the french are whining that they don't have enough social benefits. makes me want to puke The fact that the US system (student debt and stuff) is utter shit doesn't mean that the French system is perfect  .You talk about wanting to puke but you didn't bother to use upper case letters when needed, so your entire post is like garbage for the eyes, respect yourself a bit more .I don't think you understand what real work is more than Mélenchon either, you found a good situation so you expect people to do the same but they didn't have the same tools you had in order to find such a situation it's not as easy as it sounds. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9204 Posts
On May 08 2017 09:34 lastpuritan wrote: Here, a good flood for on Macron's expected foreign policy. https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/861346950117019648 Can we read it as France will push some Nato forces to intervene in Syria? Nobody wants to get seriously involved in Syria. I bet Macron won't push for anything more than more coordination in airstrikes against ISIS. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
"Let's start a discussion" is about the emptiest statement one could imagine. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On May 08 2017 09:54 Poopi wrote: The fact that the US system (student debt and stuff) is utter shit doesn't mean that the French system is perfect .You talk about wanting to puke but you didn't bother to use upper case letters when needed, so your entire post is like garbage for the eyes, respect yourself a bit more .I don't think you understand what real work is more than Mélenchon either, you found a good situation so you expect people to do the same but they didn't have the same tools you had in order to find such a situation it's not as easy as it sounds.I showed up without a shred of experience in my field and was hired because I interviewed well. I pump jet fuel for a living. It is as easy as it sounds in Colorado because we have record low unemployment as of right now. Many of my co-workers were hired without any prior experience, fresh out of high-school. As long as your attitude is positive and constructive, you shouldn't have too much of a problem getting into a good situation in the USA. You won't afford a trump mansion but you can sustain yourself easily. I'm not saying it's perfect I am saying that if you care to move your ass you can get things going in the USA. In the France You think I don't know what real work is? I don't even know what to say. I'll tell my boss tomorrow that I do fake work and that he should get rid of me. It's not as easy as it sounds? I had two job offers over the course of two weeks. I literally walked to front desk and asked for a job, I got interviews immediately. I remember begging French supermarkets to take me in, they wouldn't even call me back, the lady I talked to looked at me like I was a terrorist when I asked her for a job (I was waiting for immigration). When I did internships for my studies in France, I either worked for free or for the literal legal minimum wage, €3.6/hour, capped at 35 hours per week. I worked more than 35. The French job market is the most disgusting joke ever. I have friends who finished their engineering degrees a year ago and still haven't found work. What's even more disgusting is how the French have literally the best social coverage ever, free education, free health care. Yet they still whine that it's insufficient? I don't even know what to say. It's not like I'm telling the French that they should get rid of their social benefits either. Never. That's good. However our labor laws are stifling our economic growth. The French hatred for money and people who "have more than I do" is a retarded mentality to have. I see it everywhere in France. I see it no where in the USA. People hate Macron because he's a banker for crying out loud. Do these imbeciles not realize that being a banker does not automatically make you the spawn of Satan? Fuck it. And really, getting free education is not a "perfect system"? What more could you ask for? Better quality? Fine, I mean anything can be optimized. I think our grandes écoles are idiotic. However the reality is that if you're 18 and you want to pursue studies in France, you fucking can. If you're in the USA and you want to study, you'd better get a part time job and be ready to pay off your student debt. The USA is fucking brutal in that regard. I just need to point out how needlessly and unjustly the French are when they whine about a more liberalized economy. "Acquis sociaux à défendre", my fucking ass. You have it better than 98% of the world's population and you still whine. Fuck you. Not you personally, fuck the French. I did not write my post for it to be beautiful for the eyes. It's a rant post and the random capital letters and caps are there to underline that, I said as much. @lastpuritan I'm too tilted to translate stuff right now but I'll try to do it at some point. I feel very tired. low energy me. @tula well I'm not talking about voting or political parties per se. I am just expressing contempt at any French person who would talk about social inequality. I mean if we really wanted to we could talk about wage-gap and poverty. Those exist in France, that much is true, in spite of the many good things like health and education (which are huge, very huge). We could talk about rent as well and being able to pay for housing and living. Sure. I mean, that is why the FN and fucks like Mélenchon are relevant at all. Extremist parties play off the misery of people who feel have been wronged. Mélenchon is a fucking extremist just like Le Shit is. A Mélenchon voter is no better than a Le Pen voter as far as I'm concerned. Now again, there are some big issues in France; Bigly issues. As far as I'm concerned we need to give more flexibility to the private sector to do their thing. The way it works in France right now is that if you have a company, you need to work at a margin of say 40% (completely arbitrary) in order to stay alive (not go bankrupt). In the USA, with less taxes and regulations, you would need only 20% margins to "stay alive". So there are profitable companies in the USA which could not exist in France, simply because they aren't efficient enough to survive France's draconian labor laws, taxes, regulations and so on. The French, crying for more social justice (with hate and contempt for employers, "les patrons, c'est salauds") don't realize that they are stifling economic activity. If companies which were less efficient (nonetheless still profitable) were allowed to exist in France, you would have more work to go around. Employment rates would increase which would mean that the job market would be like it is in Colorado: easy to find a good job which pays well because employers are competing for employees, rather than employees competing for jobs. The labor market truly thrives on low unemployment. It's not rocket science, though people pretend it is, which is fair enough because it is complicated. Still. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On May 08 2017 11:46 Incognoto wrote: It's not like I'm telling the French that they should get rid of their social benefits either. Never. That's good. However our labor laws are stifling our economic growth. The French hatred for money and people who "have more than I do" is a retarded mentality to have. I see it everywhere in France. I see it no where in the USA. People hate Macron because he's a banker for crying out loud. Do these imbeciles not realize that being a banker does not automatically make you the spawn of Satan? Fuck it. When will the French reform their labor laws, or get a candidate that has a clue and agitates for producing more economic growth (aka move towards the kind of situation you found in Colorado)? Both of the latest candidates were absolutely terrible in that regard if you ask me (but you can point me to where Macron actually promised adequate changes in this area--I'm reliant on English sources). | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
I'm not sure if he's ever gotten more specific. What he can implement will obviously also depend on what kind of alliances he can get in the national assembly. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On May 08 2017 12:27 Nyxisto wrote: That's one of Macron's goals. The FT had a comparison of some policies just a few days ago. https://www.ft.com/content/fb0ac974-2909-11e7-9ec8-168383da43b7 I'm not sure if he's ever gotten more specific. What he can implement will obviously also depend on what kind of alliances he can get in the national assembly. Paywalled. I'm really looking for him or really any of the frontrunners to identify economic growth as a key problem and talk intelligently about labor laws, regulations, taxes as specific barriers to French competitiveness, business formation, you name it. Incognoto's talk I've heard from foreign critics, but not well-addressed by French candidates. Now again, there are some big issues in France; Bigly issues. As far as I'm concerned we need to give more flexibility to the private sector to do their thing. I wager you say that in France and you're immediately on the far right and probably accused of being in league with big bankers. Supply side heresy. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
And yeah the political culture in France towards economic liberalization is problematic, but the French people seem to be tired of the left and right-wing divide so he might have some political capital to do it as long as he doesn't at the same time slash the welfare state, which he promised not to do. The reason liberal econ policies get a bad reputation is because they're way too often done opportunistically to serve some petty interest. Someone simply needs to implement them with some compensation in mind for the people who lose out. Just "cutting red tape" is not good policy. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
Do i think Macron will be a great president? Nah. He's to full of himself, in a different election i would've said "he could be decent if he lost the first time around, to learn some real modesty" - didn't work out that way. I do think that he'll be a better president than Le Pen though, even though that's not a hard measure to beat. Instead of getting in line with turkey, the UK and the US, i do think that the french voted for the right person. Not to mention, this makes reddit so much more fun. Russian bots, trumpets etc went full retard, sodium levels through the roof. That by itself should tell you that the better person won.  | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 08 2017 11:46 Incognoto wrote: Now again, there are some big issues in France; Bigly issues. As far as I'm concerned we need to give more flexibility to the private sector to do their thing. The way it works in France right now is that if you have a company, you need to work at a margin of say 40% (completely arbitrary) in order to stay alive (not go bankrupt). In the USA, with less taxes and regulations, you would need only 20% margins to "stay alive". So there are profitable companies in the USA which could not exist in France, simply because they aren't efficient enough to survive France's draconian labor laws, taxes, regulations and so on. The French, crying for more social justice (with hate and contempt for employers, "les patrons, c'est salauds") don't realize that they are stifling economic activity. If companies which were less efficient (nonetheless still profitable) were allowed to exist in France, you would have more work to go around. Employment rates would increase which would mean that the job market would be like it is in Colorado: easy to find a good job which pays well because employers are competing for employees, rather than employees competing for jobs. The labor market truly thrives on low unemployment. It's not rocket science, though people pretend it is, which is fair enough because it is complicated. Still. Of course it isn't rocket science. You decrease wages or social benefits to the employer or others (i.e. you decease wages) and you get more jobs and economy. That much really is trivial. You make incredible amounts of debt that your youth has to pay back to kickstart the economy whenever privateers don't see enough profit (like the USA does) and you will get over crisis. That's all nice in the shortrun. In the longrun you just create a slippery slope of state debt and falling/stagnating wages/benefits, while the rich get richer and creep up their control of the government, media and whatnot. Stuff isn't free. If you pay taxes and you don't get services it is much worse than paying higher taxes but getting expensive benefits. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5281 Posts
i mean come on dude, that's text book self-serving-bias but you want it to pass as some earth shattering, eye opening pro-capitalism sacred mantra. sure there are various contexts/circumstances/shades of gray here(employment market), but you show no inclination towards thinking about anyone but yourself and your needs. when they're met = USA!, USA!, USA! and when they're not = those fucking frenches not letting me work ... | ||
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