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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On November 11 2015 02:07 Sent. wrote: I don't mind BND spying on Europeans, I just hope our services are doing the same in Germany. Given the difference in budgets, it's much more plausible to suppose otherwise (unless Poland spends abnormally more, as % of its budget, than Germany). Such is the assymetric nature of spying. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9280 Posts
On November 11 2015 20:13 Sbrubbles wrote: Given the difference in budgets, it's much more plausible to suppose otherwise (unless Poland spends abnormally more, as % of its budget, than Germany). Such is the assymetric nature of spying. I meant spying in general, not necessarily huge surveillance programs but any intelligence activity. I hope that Polish, French, English or any other European services don't have some naive principle of not spying on other NATO members just because they're supposed to be their allies. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
if you agree with spying then you agree with hiding things from allies too; so then what's the point in having an ally?. it's not like he's going to war for you so then why?.(for trade agreements you only need to sign deals, you don't need allies). | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On November 11 2015 22:04 Sent. wrote: I meant spying in general, not necessarily huge surveillance programs but any intelligence activity. I hope that Polish, French, English or any other European services don't have some naive principle of not spying on other NATO members just because they're supposed to be their allies. Every sane nation spies on every other nation. Poland has spies in Germany for sure - not that you'll ever hear about it because it's really not controversial (except among those who don't understand how intelligence agencies operate). | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On November 11 2015 14:05 WhiteDog wrote: What's funny is that the spiegel consider that, if Merkel said that "we don't spy on friends" and that they, in fact, did spy on european neighbors, it means that Merkel lied. No, it means that there is no such things as "friends" in a competitive economy. Who's actually dumb enough to believe only the German did it... I'm pretty sure spying on your neighbor is normal behavior in the beautiful europe. By the way, Portugal is the next Greece. Just watch their debt growing faster now that the left has been voted. The finance will never accept a country to give powers to communists. If I'm not wrong (and I might be) Portugal went through a stricter austerity regimen than Greece did. Just that Greece made more noise over it. I actually wonder whether the left parties in Portugal will go through the same phases the Greek left went though: 1) promissing their voters both an end to austerity, and more social security 2) claiming that their electoral victory is a victory for democracy and for the people, and that they will put an end to EU neoliberal policies everywhere 3) being forced to default on every promise because they cost money which Portugal does not have, and because they require reforming instutions which the rulers themselves have stakes in (usually public institutions). 4) Conflicts concerning reform and spelding causes the left party (or parties) to split into moderates and "leftier than thou" marxists. The latter are basically never heard of again. 5) the moderates agree to continue with austerity (because otherwise the country would be bankrupt in a matter of weeks), while insisting that it is not austerity at all, but the will of the people. I sincerely hope that they do not go the same populist route as Syriza did. As the Greeks have experienced the past year, the will of the people cannot democratically magick away hundreds of billions of debt, society-wide corruption and a non-performing economy. What happened in Greece reminds me of a certain cartoon, actually. A speaker asks the audience: "Who wants change?". Everyone answers, enthusiastically=: "We do!". The speaker then asks: "Who wants to change?", causing a deafening silence amogn the people the audience. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
If I'm not wrong (and I might be) Portugal went through a stricter austerity regimen than Greece did. Just that Greece made more noise over it. Greece austerity was stricter than any other countries. It's the sacrificial lamb of europe. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On November 11 2015 22:04 Sent. wrote: I meant spying in general, not necessarily huge surveillance programs but any intelligence activity. I hope that Polish, French, English or any other European services don't have some naive principle of not spying on other NATO members just because they're supposed to be their allies. I meant to say that though surely poland also spies on germany (it would be silly to suppose otherwise), there is likely a quantitative difference given difference in budget. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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TMG26
Portugal2017 Posts
It's pretty obvious propaganda, still, there is some merit in it. My country is still in crisis, and we are giving refugees the double of a minimum wage, and houses that were taken from our indebted people. | ||
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TMG26
Portugal2017 Posts
On November 10 2015 22:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Big stuff going on in Portugal too? Some outlets reporting socialist coup but i remember reading that socialists gained the majority at a recent election but the conservative leader failed to honour the results. The voting is for parliament seats. The ruling right-wing coalition (PSD & CDS) went in together as (PaF), they were the most voted party, but they didn't get the majority vote. the 3 left wing parties went in separate. The major opposition party got worse results than last election, but the other 2 left wing parties grew. The election is only for seats. The President nominates the Prime Minister, the PM chooses his ministers and makes a government plan that must be approved in parliament. The President, like every time in Portugal history, nominated the party that got more votes(PaF, the right wing coalition). But after this, the other parties in parliament decided to come together and reject the government plan (there is still no agreement between them to rule together, they just don't want the same government, instability will continue), with this the Government falls, and it's up to the President again. It's the first time in Portugal history, that the party that "won" (as in, got more votes) the elections didn't get to rule. And there were some Governments before that also didn't get the majority of the parliament but were approved anyway. Normally the President could call another election, but he his in the last semester of his mandate, and so he looses that power. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 12 2015 07:37 oneofthem wrote: symmetric spying leads to better and more transparent relations. there has to be some basic level of trust to lead to active cooperation and institution building at the international level, and spying, or forceful transparency, is how this is done. I don't think you quite understand what trust is. Trust in a couple is not strenghten when you "forcefully" check in your compagnon cellphone. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 12 2015 21:27 oneofthem wrote: its mutual knowledge ofdeeds and also knowing each other's ability to know Yeah but trust is above that. You can argue that trust between nations is impossible if that is your vision and that we need transparency to enforce peace, whatever the way that transparency is achieved, but don't say that spying increase trust it is a huge mistake. So there is a general strike in Greece against the policies pushed by europe and against the government that enforce those policies (Tsipras' government) and Syriza is actually for the strike ? How is it that this farce can continue ? | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2715 Posts
This allows nations to check things like the size of eachothers military, intelligence capability, economy and trade power and compare that fairly easily and the compare it what they say that they have. This builds trust between countries. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
The European Commission has issued new guidelines for the labelling of some products made in Israeli settlements on occupied Palestinian and Syrian land Agricultural produce and cosmetics sold in EU member states must now have clear labels showing their place of origin. Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu said the EU "should be ashamed of itself". The EU considers settlements built on territories occupied by Israel in 1967 to be illegal under international law, but Israel disputes this position. The EU says settlements constitute an obstacle to peace and threaten to make a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict impossible. Mr Netanyahu, who was in Washington on an official visit, called the decision "hypocritical and a double standard".The Israeli foreign ministry has summoned the EU ambassador to Israel and said it would suspend diplomatic dialogue in the coming weeks. 'Clarification' At a meeting in Brussels on Wednesday, the European Commission adopted an "interpretative notice on indication of origin of goods from the territories occupied by Israel since June 1967". The Commission says the territories comprise the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights, which were captured from Syria. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 13 2015 02:18 xM(Z wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34786607 The European Commission has issued new guidelines for the labelling of some products made in Israeli settlements on occupied Palestinian and Syrian land Hahaha, I take everything back, there is sometime some good coming from Europe ? In France the court actually ruled against the BDS and argued that the boycott was unlawful as it is unconstitutional to discriminate someone, even if the someone is a colonial power. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 13 2015 03:26 cLutZ wrote: I am consistently confused by peoples' obsession with 1967 borders, but not, say 1914 borders. Who's talking about 1967 or 1914 ? We're talking about now. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 13 2015 03:29 WhiteDog wrote: Who's talking about 1967 or 1914 ? We're talking about now. The European Commission. As well as a huge % of people who discuss the Isreal situation. | ||
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