EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 332
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4386 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10853 Posts
On November 10 2015 22:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Big stuff going on in Portugal too? Some outlets reporting socialist coup but i remember reading that socialists gained the majority at a recent election but the conservative leader failed to honour the results. What i got: Socialist/Communist/General Left got majority but didn't really work together before. Leader failed to honour the result and didn't declare the winner to create a ruling coalition (most likely due to EU pressure). The whole left seems to have forged a coalition now anyway, so they have a majority and the right has no say in anything anymore as Long as the left sticks together. EU-Leaders, Bankers and other assholes are now scared shitless because they fear for their credits. Well.. Deomcracy is a bitch. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6266 Posts
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nitram
Canada5412 Posts
On November 10 2015 22:43 Velr wrote: What i got: Socialist/Communist/General Left got majority but didn't really work together before. Leader failed to honour the result and didn't declare the winner to create a ruling coalition (most likely due to EU pressure). The whole left seems to have forged a coalition now anyway, so they have a majority and the right has no say in anything anymore as Long as the left sticks together. EU-Leaders, Bankers and other assholes are now scared shitless because they fear for their credits. Well.. Deomcracy is a bitch. So while most of Europe moves right, Portugal goes left? Even Germany's AFD's is said to have 10%. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 09 2015 17:40 kornetka wrote: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-bnd-intelligence-spied-on-friends-and-vatican-a-1061588.html Well, it is sad, though I am in no way surprised. However it does in my eyes destroy the foundation of the EU. I mean, you don't spy on your allies to defend yourself - you do it to get the upper hand. And this undermines the idea of the european union working together for everyone's benefit. truly outrageous! | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On November 11 2015 01:15 nitram wrote: So while most of Europe moves right, Portugal goes left? Even Germany's AFD's is said to have 10%. I'd say many nationalist movements gain traction all over Europe. Left movements can also have nationalist tendencies. I do not know the details of Portuguese political landscape, so this is conjecture, but I guess some of the parties could have a left/socialist political platform for topics of the interior (just income distribution, taxing big money etc) while at the same time having a nationalistic populist tone for topics concerning the EU (evul Germanz dictating everything, blaming outside forces for economic misery). | ||
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RolleMcKnolle
Germany1054 Posts
Why should they not spy on friendly nations? It's not like the BND is behaving differently than the German government here. Way worse, in my eyes atleast, are the news about these agencies spying on everyday people. But it always seems like these everyday people are okay with this. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9280 Posts
On November 11 2015 01:15 nitram wrote: So while most of Europe moves right, Portugal goes left? Even Germany's AFD's is said to have 10%. I think Europe doesn't just move right, people get more radical regardless of their political preferences. Moderate left-wing parties are getting replaced by movements like Syriza in a lot of countries so I wouldn't say European left is in retreat. People are disappointed with centrist parties, hence more support for both right and left wing radicals. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
On November 09 2015 19:28 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Yeah look, Merkel is just another EU stooge - the goal of the EU is to undermine individual nation states within the EU and increasingly consolidate power over all former European nation states at a centralised location. Here's a flashback from Merkel, back in 2010. She admits here that multiculturalism has failed, now she has approved 1,000,000+ per year.No other explanation is possible other than to undermine individual nation states within the EU, Not sure if joking or just not caring about laws, treaties and humanistic ideas ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ On November 11 2015 02:07 Sent. wrote: I don't mind BND spying on Europeans, I just hope our services are doing the same in Germany. I think Europe doesn't just move right, people get more radical regardless of their political preferences. Moderate left-wing parties are getting replaced by movements like Syriza in a lot of countries so I wouldn't say European left is in retreat. People are disappointed with centrist parties, hence more support for both right and left wing radicals. Which is a consequence of the european moderate left moving more and more towards the center in the last two decades. In Germany for example you have the choice between a centrist SPD that is maybe a tiny bit towards the left and "Die Linke" which is full on left. There is no moderate choice imo... :/ | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Portuguese MPs have forced a minority centre-right government to resign after rejecting its austerity policies less than two weeks after it was sworn in. The coalition of the prime minister, Pedro Passos Coelho, had emerged as the largest party in a general election on 4 October but lost its outright majority in a public backlash against austerity measures adopted following a €78bn bailout in 2011. The vote to bring it down follows the moderate Socialist party forming an unprecedented alliance with the Communists and their Left Bloc allies, giving the grouping 122 seats out of 230 in Portugal’s parliament. The Socialist party’s internal political committee announced late on Sunday that it had recommended its MPs support a motion to take down the government. Party leader Antonio Costa is now expected to become prime minister in coming weeks. Source | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10853 Posts
On November 11 2015 02:52 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: Not sure if joking or just not caring about laws, treaties and humanistic ideas ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Which is a consequence of the european moderate left moving more and more towards the center in the last two decades. In Germany for example you have the choice between a centrist SPD that is maybe a tiny bit towards the left and "Die Linke" which is full on left. There is no moderate choice imo... :/ If germany has one problem, its that the CDU tries to cover everything from slightlyleft to "there can't be a party more rightwing than we are". The SPD sold out under Schroeder, how it is still a thing, is beyond me. | ||
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silynxer
Germany439 Posts
On November 11 2015 02:44 DannyJ wrote: Well, there clearly was a reason why the German government was pretty nonchalant about the whole NSA issue a year or two ago. For some reason it seemed like the German people, or at least internet kiddies, had a strange impression that the BND would never spy on "allies". First of all I will not defend the BND, neither in its role as a stooge for the NSA nor in its own spying. As far as I am concerned heads should roll over this but I wont hold my breath. However some things need to be made straight. First, according to current information, the practice stopped in autumn 2013. Second, from what I read, what they did was "only" filtering for so called selectors at internet nodal points whithin Germany and whithin those selectors were some aimed at allied institutions. I think this inexcusable and it's good that they stopped but it is in a completely different ballpark than what the US agencies did and have probably no inclination of stopping to do (for example spying on the chancellors phone or spying on an EU commity). Like I said at the time of the NSA scandal, yes everybody spies on everybody but not to the same extent. Even if you believe in this kind of real politic, don't kid yourself that there is some kind of equivalence. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
What's funny is that the spiegel consider that, if Merkel said that "we don't spy on friends" and that they, in fact, did spy on european neighbors, it means that Merkel lied. No, it means that there is no such things as "friends" in a competitive economy. Who's actually dumb enough to believe only the German did it... I'm pretty sure spying on your neighbor is normal behavior in the beautiful europe. By the way, Portugal is the next Greece. Just watch their debt growing faster now that the left has been voted. The finance will never accept a country to give powers to communists. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On November 11 2015 02:44 DannyJ wrote: Well, there clearly was a reason why the German government was pretty nonchalant about the whole NSA issue a year or two ago. For some reason it seemed like the German people, or at least internet kiddies, had a strange impression that the BND would never spy on "allies". One key-difference. Germans are thoroughly surprised by the BND acting dickish, where americans pretty much expect the NSA to act like that. The german population wants to be a team player in europe, including "no spying", where the US is pretty much the exact opposite. Including the population, btw. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On November 11 2015 14:25 m4ini wrote: One key-difference. Germans are thoroughly surprised by the BND acting dickish, where americans pretty much expect the NSA to act like that. The german population wants to be a team player in europe, including "no spying", where the US is pretty much the exact opposite. Including the population, btw. Not really sure why that's a difference, or rather, why it matters. The populations attitude towards the shenanigans that is international espionage holds little weight, even in Germany. Point is, there was a reason the German government was rather laissez-faire about the whole NSA thing, all things considered, and it was odd that Germans, many of whom proclaimed their Country would never dare "spy" on friends, didn't take that as a hint... Don't get me wrong, it's no where near NSA level, but it's not about equivalences, it's about facts of reality when it comes to international relationships. I'm sure the BND does some pretty dirty stuff, but I guess we can all just bury our head in the sand again and pretend they don't do anything worse than we already know... until it's inevitably in the news. | ||
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silynxer
Germany439 Posts
That institutions do things against their mission and against the will of the people is to be expected. What happens when it comes to light is more intersting and indicative. On the other hand Americans seem to be mostly in agreement or at least disinterested with the CIA and NSA stuff, so whatever I guess. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
There are limits to what intelligence agencies should be able to do, but frankly, I haven't seen any egregious abuses of power here. Nothing like the day-to-day fear of being watched induced by an agency like the KGB I remember. Though in its defense, it did a far better job at justifying its actions in the name of (legitimate) security threats than the NSA has done in recent years... | ||
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On November 11 2015 16:03 DannyJ wrote: That is a total misinterpretation of 'the Germans'!...and it was odd that Germans, many of whom proclaimed their Country would never dare "spy" on friends, didn't take that as a hint... What you (an sadly many more) do not get is that the US changed the definition of the activity called 'spying' in the digital age and there was no democratic consent on this. In the past spying meant observing embassy personal, intercepting diplomatic correspondence or gathering military plans for example. It was an ugly business but the majority of German population accepted it as 'the spy game'. And spying did essentially happen in its own little world, if you are not a state official or someone important you would never come in contact with it (other than writing letters across the iron curtain of course). The rules of spying have changed with the Internet and large-capacity storage of data. Agencies do not target individuals or specific institutions any longer, they target the whole population of any foreign country (and via partnership their own population as well of course) with the stated goal of gathering everything, every phone call, every email, every website visited, every money transaction, every position of every phone, every everything from everybody! To even equate the former spying with modern mass-surveillance is an insult to one's intelligence! The whole point about democracy and modern statehood was not to end up in a police state being surveiled by some unaccountable powerful cabal for the 'greater good of the nation' and 'your own protection'. (And by logical principle one would not wish any other country to be subjected to such a thing by one's own intelligence service.) So, no, the Germans are not hypocritical when they are outraged about spying now when they were 'ok' with it for hundreds of years, because if you still think nothing substantial changed and it is all 'ye olde spying game', than you don't know what you are talking about... | ||
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