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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
The Alternative to Austerity
... abridged version of the statement submitted by the Left Platform at today’s plenary meeting of Syriza’s parliamentary group ...
The government must declare to the “institutions” and to proclaim to the Greek people that, even at the last moment, without a positive compromise reflected in a program that will end austerity, provide sufficient liquidity to economy, lead to economic recovery, and include major writing-off of the debt, it is ready to follow an alternative progressive path which puts into question the presence of our country in the eurozone, while interrupting debt repayment.
In order to confront the pressures and unacceptable demands of the creditors, the process that could lead Greece out of the eurozone is a serious and complex enterprise, which should have been systematically prepared by the government and by Syriza. However, due to the tragic blockages that prevailed both in government and in the party, this has not been achieved.
Nevertheless, even now the government can and must respond to the blackmail of the “institutions” by posing the following alternative: either a program without any further austerity, providing liquidity, and leading to debt cancellation, or exit from the euro and default on the repayment of an unjust and unsustainable debt.
... src
translation via jacobinmag, couple of days old, but wasn't posted.
very curious to what the plans for an eventual transition, provided they have been, and are being made, look like wrt social control and emergency currency system, and how this would actually play out.
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The more I read about this list, the more I am convinced that Merkel/Schäuble have already made up their minds.
They don't trust Tsipras one iota (and who would at this point), so they went into today with the plan to Grexit. This is not really a last ditch effort to keep things together, it's more in the line of "well in theory, if they would suddenly make these laws in 3 days than we might talk for a bit longer, but since we all know, they will probably not do it, we are on our way out of the door."
This 50bn 'assets as collateral' comes totally out of left field and certainly feels like playing right into the 'they are taking over our country'-narrative.
Maybe it is just to create pressure (weak excuse), but floating something like this at this late hour is nasty for sure.
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On July 13 2015 09:15 nunez wrote:Show nested quote +The Alternative to Austerity
... abridged version of the statement submitted by the Left Platform at today’s plenary meeting of Syriza’s parliamentary group ...
The government must declare to the “institutions” and to proclaim to the Greek people that, even at the last moment, without a positive compromise reflected in a program that will end austerity, provide sufficient liquidity to economy, lead to economic recovery, and include major writing-off of the debt, it is ready to follow an alternative progressive path which puts into question the presence of our country in the eurozone, while interrupting debt repayment.
In order to confront the pressures and unacceptable demands of the creditors, the process that could lead Greece out of the eurozone is a serious and complex enterprise, which should have been systematically prepared by the government and by Syriza. However, due to the tragic blockages that prevailed both in government and in the party, this has not been achieved.
Nevertheless, even now the government can and must respond to the blackmail of the “institutions” by posing the following alternative: either a program without any further austerity, providing liquidity, and leading to debt cancellation, or exit from the euro and default on the repayment of an unjust and unsustainable debt.
... srctranslation via jacobinmag, couple of days old, but wasn't posted. very curious to what the plans for an eventual transition, provided they have been, and are being made, look like wrt social control and emergency currency system, and how this would actually play out.
The problem is there is no plan. What you have linked is the opinion of a minority in Syriza, a vocal one but still a minority.
The opposition parties that have already voted for austerity in the past accused Syriza that they had a plan to return to drachma from the start, so that oligarchs supporting Syriza can profit.
The problem actually is that they didn't have a plan for that. They were bluffing, expecting the creditors to back down first, for them to not be as cruel as they are. I also believe that they thought they had more allies among the south, unable to realise how powerless anyone other than France and Germany actually is. Most of what has transpired these 6 months is an act of balance, Syriza trying not to betray the people that voted them in while getting a deal with the Europeans.
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There's been no functional "Plan B" (i.e. a new Drachma) for years. The biggest issue is that an entire emergency plan for it should have been executed in 2011. What we're about to find out is what "Plan B" looks like when it's executed on the fly.
This isn't going to go well.
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yes, i explicitly the context in the quote for a reason.
i don't think, regardless of whether such plans exists or not, they would ential returning to the drachma literally.
some other type of currency would be have to be instated, prolly digital.
i think they would keep plans like these hidden.
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On July 13 2015 09:34 gsgfdf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 09:15 nunez wrote:The Alternative to Austerity
... abridged version of the statement submitted by the Left Platform at today’s plenary meeting of Syriza’s parliamentary group ...
The government must declare to the “institutions” and to proclaim to the Greek people that, even at the last moment, without a positive compromise reflected in a program that will end austerity, provide sufficient liquidity to economy, lead to economic recovery, and include major writing-off of the debt, it is ready to follow an alternative progressive path which puts into question the presence of our country in the eurozone, while interrupting debt repayment.
In order to confront the pressures and unacceptable demands of the creditors, the process that could lead Greece out of the eurozone is a serious and complex enterprise, which should have been systematically prepared by the government and by Syriza. However, due to the tragic blockages that prevailed both in government and in the party, this has not been achieved.
Nevertheless, even now the government can and must respond to the blackmail of the “institutions” by posing the following alternative: either a program without any further austerity, providing liquidity, and leading to debt cancellation, or exit from the euro and default on the repayment of an unjust and unsustainable debt.
... srctranslation via jacobinmag, couple of days old, but wasn't posted. very curious to what the plans for an eventual transition, provided they have been, and are being made, look like wrt social control and emergency currency system, and how this would actually play out. The problem is there is no plan. What you have linked is the opinion of a minority in Syriza, a vocal one but still a minority. The opposition parties that have already voted for austerity in the past accused Syriza that they had a plan to return to drachma from the start, so that oligarchs supporting Syriza can profit. The problem actually is that they didn't have a plan for that. They were bluffing, expecting the creditors to back down first, for them to not be as cruel as they are. I also believe that they thought they had more allies among the south, unable to realise how powerless anyone other than France and Germany actually is. Most of what has transpired these 6 months is an act of balance, Syriza trying not to betray the people that voted them in while getting a deal with the Europeans.
At least France is vocally supporting Greece through all this.
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Since we're into the territory of "terrible ideas", a classic way to settle this debt would be to offer land.
I wonder if Germany would accept Peloponnese + Crete and call it good? Granted, they'd then have to run the places. Which probably means they wouldn't accept that offer.
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Is there a reason why they can't give the 50bln out part at a time and tie it to certain benchmarks for Greece? For example, give 10bln a year for the next 5 years, but cut off payments if Greece backs out on any of its promises in the meantime.
It seems to me that trying to get rid of Syriza would be very foolish of Germany. Syriza is a popular anti-austerity movement in Greece that has publicly decided to accept unpopular austerity. That should tell the Greek people that austerity was the best way forward. Syriza is the perfect messenger because they hate it themselves. Syriza being forced out by foreign powers would only turn the Greek people against those foreign powers.
Sure, many of Tsipras's moves have seemed very amateurish. However, the EU powers need to work with him, help him be a little more professional, and get the job done. He is the best chance for a good solution now.
Also, thanks for clearing up my liberal/conservative economic confusion. Kind of funny that America's liberal party is economically conservative and our conservative party is economically liberal.
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On July 13 2015 10:30 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Since we're into the territory of "terrible ideas", a classic way to settle this debt would be to offer land.
I wonder if Germany would accept Peloponnese + Crete and call it good? Granted, they'd then have to run the places. Which probably means they wouldn't accept that offer.
Any country would be insane to give out its national treasure or its land in order to settle its debts.
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On July 13 2015 08:17 Gorsameth wrote:
I wish all these people against the proposal would tell me how you can assure that a government that has repeatedly broken agreements and reverted reforms keeps up this proposal and doesn't make off with the money like last time.
You build trust by having the Greek government do little things in exchange for the creditors doing little things. Asking for everything from Greece before moving an inch does not build trust at all.
It seems to me that the people behind the proposal have no intention of getting an agreement with Greece. You just want to break them. It's pretty clear now that their goal is a Grexit.
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Well in theory colleteral doesnt matter as long as you plan to own up to your obligations. The important part for Greece shouldnt be that there is colleteral but the terms on when they lose it. Of course it sucks to be told no one trusts you and that they will dictate what you have to do but that is how it is.
Also anyone think Merkel is purposly going in hard in order to be able to take a step back and have something that will both pass internally but more importantly in the group?
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That we really are talking about letting Europe go into meltdown because two political parties don't like each other says volumes about this crisis.
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On July 13 2015 13:48 Evil_Sheep wrote:
That we really are talking about letting Europe go into meltdown because two political parties don't like each other says volumes about this crisis.
Europe wont go into meltdown at all. Everyone but Greece will be ok.
Also, its a bit more than don't like each other; with some very justified reasons.
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Greece is small and the effect on it will be more dramatic and immediate, but a Grexit is going to be bad for Europe. It undermines the entire Europe project and makes it feasible that others will leave as well. Not going to happen right away, since they would make an example out of Greece, but in the long run you can't keep the union together solely through threat of force when the economic benefit is diminishing.
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Apparently all parties finally have agreed on a proposal after making some (so far unknown) adjustments and compromises.
Well... that didn't take too long, now did it? 
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That's also what Im hearing from bloomberg.
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the EU right told Greece's left to fuck off so the lefties made the referendum to show the righties they still have 60% population support?.
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Now the battle begins at home for Tsipras.
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On July 13 2015 10:10 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 09:34 gsgfdf wrote:On July 13 2015 09:15 nunez wrote:The Alternative to Austerity
... abridged version of the statement submitted by the Left Platform at today’s plenary meeting of Syriza’s parliamentary group ...
The government must declare to the “institutions” and to proclaim to the Greek people that, even at the last moment, without a positive compromise reflected in a program that will end austerity, provide sufficient liquidity to economy, lead to economic recovery, and include major writing-off of the debt, it is ready to follow an alternative progressive path which puts into question the presence of our country in the eurozone, while interrupting debt repayment.
In order to confront the pressures and unacceptable demands of the creditors, the process that could lead Greece out of the eurozone is a serious and complex enterprise, which should have been systematically prepared by the government and by Syriza. However, due to the tragic blockages that prevailed both in government and in the party, this has not been achieved.
Nevertheless, even now the government can and must respond to the blackmail of the “institutions” by posing the following alternative: either a program without any further austerity, providing liquidity, and leading to debt cancellation, or exit from the euro and default on the repayment of an unjust and unsustainable debt.
... srctranslation via jacobinmag, couple of days old, but wasn't posted. very curious to what the plans for an eventual transition, provided they have been, and are being made, look like wrt social control and emergency currency system, and how this would actually play out. The problem is there is no plan. What you have linked is the opinion of a minority in Syriza, a vocal one but still a minority. The opposition parties that have already voted for austerity in the past accused Syriza that they had a plan to return to drachma from the start, so that oligarchs supporting Syriza can profit. The problem actually is that they didn't have a plan for that. They were bluffing, expecting the creditors to back down first, for them to not be as cruel as they are. I also believe that they thought they had more allies among the south, unable to realise how powerless anyone other than France and Germany actually is. Most of what has transpired these 6 months is an act of balance, Syriza trying not to betray the people that voted them in while getting a deal with the Europeans. At least France is vocally supporting Greece through all this.
1. Germany supported Greece much more than France.
2. Since Germany is the major supporter of Greece, it's in Germanies main goal to create an efficient economy in Greece.
the main problem is the people in Greece voted for a party that undone the advance that was made by the earlier parties. And furthermore insult Germans personally in a bad manner, which makes it difficult for Germans to "lend" (throw away) them their money.
Sadly the people of Germany were never asked if THEY wanted to be in the EU anymore. Because there are many in Germany who would want to have their own currency and not be forced into slavery for silly Greeks for generations to come.
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EPT
