EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 188
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22352 Posts
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phantomlancer23
733 Posts
On July 12 2015 05:39 BurningSera wrote: From what i understand is that Greece has a strong attitude that they didn't let ECB/IMF get into their government/management at all (or very limited anyway), i thought that would be the focus point in this 3rd bailout? I mean look at Ireland, troika must have literally stormed into the central government and fixed/changed all the shitty policies from the ground, not sure what exactly happened back in that 2-3 years but ireland did listen and made changes accordingly; unlike Greece, which in my head they are a bunch of barbarians who are full of themselves and stubborn (and lazy). I was in athens back then and some locals i spoke with surprised me about many of them basically work half day (9am-2/3pm) and nobody actually paying tax in the country (and some people do that for decades). I don't believe that is entirely true but it is shocking to see how a nation functions like that (or anywhere near that). It is also obvious that the nation spent their bailout money to continue their luxury lifestyle rather than actually cut down their spendings etc (like every other eu countries since 2010). The worst thing is that even when the greeks are in this deep hell hole, i bet they still manage to get more money to live per month than most of the people in eastern/baltic countries. No country should get into this kind of deep hole in the first place, and i definitely don't agree on greece lacking investment opportunities, i was in thessaloniki too and god look at those rich landlords lol. I know my post is rather personal (because i honestly don't know much about them), for all i care they should start selling their temples etc just to get their shit sorted. Many people (including me) in west europe were fucked so hard by the recession in the past couple of years and you really don't see people spend/live their lives like the greeks in the past 5 years. + Show Spoiler + some quick search to confirm i am not too far off from the way i see greeks, this made me laugh: http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/06/23/is-anyone-honestly-surprised-that-greeks-dont-pay-their-debts/ Lol crearly you got inferiority complex and you envy greeks.Probably you are a fat or bald tourist who rejected a lot in GREECE. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On July 12 2015 06:01 phantomlancer23 wrote: Lol crearly you got inferiority complex and you envy greeks.Probably you are a fat or bald tourist who rejected a lot in GREECE. I did repeatedly say that it is my limited experience, please no hate and it is obviously a generalization (there are good and bad people in every nation, i thought it is obvious enough). And no i have no problem whatsoever of myself because i got my shit together eventhough i am not some millionaire (and i am fit as fuck lol). And your attitude there made me shake my head. and also, i made my comment after i read this so at the very least be civil here: http://cadtm.org/Executive-Summary-of-the-report | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On July 12 2015 05:59 Gorsameth wrote: BBC is reporting that Finland is likely to vote No to the deal. 85% required to pass so just Finland is not enough. I doubt this is much more than just a last formal complaint from the lesser members of EU (read lesser members as in not really having much overall power in EU) and this is the only thing they really can do to address their unhappiness before accepting the deal during the actual meeting. If they actually thought they had something that would impact the actual meeting they would probably voice it there and not during the stage which is just a preparing phase before doing the actual discussions. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22352 Posts
On July 12 2015 06:23 Integra wrote: I doubt this is much more than just a last formal complaint from the lesser members of EU (read lesser members as in not really having much overall power in EU) and this is the only thing they really can do to address their unhappiness before accepting the deal during the actual meeting. If they actually thought they had something that would impact the actual meeting they would probably voice it there and not during the stage which is just a preparing phase before doing the actual discussions. its certainly easier to say No when it has no actual effect. It becomes more serious if other countries join them tho. | ||
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warding
Portugal2395 Posts
https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS EDIT: In fact, having lived in the UK and Denmark and having visited Germany extensively, I'm always surprised by how early shops close, how short workdays are and how long paid holiday leave is in northern Europe. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22352 Posts
On July 12 2015 07:12 warding wrote: According to the OECD, the average Greek works 2 042 hours per year. Compare that to the UK (1 677), Germany (1 371) or Finland (1 645). Greece is, by some margin, the country with the highest avg in the EU. This depiction of the Greeks as lazy based on anecdotal evidence is unfair. https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS EDIT: In fact, having lived in the UK and Denmark and having visited Germany extensively, I'm always surprised by how early shops close, how short workdays are and how long paid holiday leave is in northern Europe. Hours worked is not a very useful statistic. Productivity is normally used instead. (not saying they are doing bad in productivity. I haven't checked) | ||
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
which either means, that they all never go on vacation or they work overtime a lot. and they have no housewives or part-time workers. | ||
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warding
Portugal2395 Posts
EDIT: You can set those stats to look at only dependent employment. Greece still comes out on top of all western european countries. You can also check other stats like % of dependent workers (Men, 25-54yo) who work more than 40 hours per week (Greece: 86.1%, Germany: 67.7%, Netherlands: 54.6%). | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Not sure how accurate that is, but perhaps that is being counted in the data? I do know that it sure seemed like there weren't many people working and so it's surprising to see those numbers. The busiest place in every town was the cafe that all the pensioners went to | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22352 Posts
On July 12 2015 07:25 warding wrote: Normally used for what? Not as a way to identify which nations are lazy. If you look at productivity you'll simply find that workers in richer countries are more productive - simply because they tend to work in more capital intensive and value-creating industries. Someone sits in an office 12 hours a day, 5 days a week. During this time he mostly browses Reddit and gets no real work done. Does he work long? Yes Is he productive? No Is he lazy? Most would say yes. | ||
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
On July 12 2015 07:19 Gorsameth wrote: Hours worked is not a very useful statistic. Productivity is normally used instead. (not saying they are doing bad in productivity. I haven't checked) They are doing very bad in productivity and thats one of the main problems why they are not competitive. I feel with the smaller countries too. In some of these states the median wage is under the minimum wage in Greece. And these people now have to pay for all that shit that is going on in greece. Just google corruption in greece for some hillarious stories whats going on there. | ||
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warding
Portugal2395 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dv8DWVE.png) On July 12 2015 07:28 Gorsameth wrote: Someone sits in an office 12 hours a day, 5 days a week. During this time he mostly browses Reddit and gets no real work done. Does he work long? Yes Is he productive? No Is he lazy? Most would say yes. Where's the evidence that less effort per hour worked is the case in Greece vs the Netherlands? | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
The Greeks has always been hard working people, all the borrowing and other craziness came mostly from the super rich and was intended for the super rich only and the average Greek actually got very little from that. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22352 Posts
On July 12 2015 07:40 warding wrote: Here's another one for the work-ethic-moralists: + Show Spoiler + Where's the evidence that less effort per hour worked is the case in Greece vs the Netherlands? Read up, I said I didn't know if Greece had low productivity. I just commented that your use of hours worked is mostly pointless. | ||
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warding
Portugal2395 Posts
I don't find the numbers unbelievable considering the much larger share of small businesses (mom-and-pops in mom-and-pop shops work long hours), tourism industry (long hours there too) and the fact that productivity is low, therefore the incentive/need to work more. Greeks also get 26 total days of holidays vs 29-33 in Germany and 30 in the Netherlands. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
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