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On July 10 2015 06:20 Toadesstern wrote:aw, it was just something else or they mailed them again, this time signed idk. Is this kind of stuff send with actual, physical letters?  Clarified and being assessed right now. But had me laughing
Would be hilarious if Grexit happened because they were using snail mail.
I seem to recall that the widespread contagion in 2008 could have been minimized if Warren Buffett knew how to use modern technology. Something about how he could've saved one of the big banks that fell but nobody could get a hold of him at a crucial time.
On July 10 2015 08:29 Kipsate wrote:
wait wait wait
so did he just amass support for a referendum to vote no only to accept pretty much the original proposal
eh.
There was an interview with a Syriza MP where they said that the no vote was a vote of confidence for Mr. Tsipras that allows him to accept the proposal. This shit is just hilarious.
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the referendum was obviously just a publicity stunt no matter what but I don't think there are details out on what the new proposal actually is except for some points that were already mentioned in here like +taxes on restaurants and whatnot. iirc it didn't actually have that many cuts, but not sure off the top of my head.
BBC seemed to think it's basicly just the old one that was signed but in return they get more money in the future as well as debt relief. Some time later they speculated about it being even harsher on cuts and taxes than the one that was ultimatively declined before the referendum was held because of the worsening situation that makes the criteria only harder to achieve. Either way, lots of speculation atm it seems.
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It could be that the proposal is identical but that Greece is offered "debt restructuring" in return, or in other words EU agrees on that Greece in the end won't have to pay all of its accumulated debt.
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If there isn't a huge debt restructuring, then we will have a Grexit in 3 years, at twice the cost of the European taxpayer, when Golden Dawn is in power.
Maybe they have to keep the debt restructuring secret because of extremist opinions in some Euro countries and to save their political leadership. So we all pretend Greece was offered nothing in return until it leaks out.
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On July 10 2015 09:10 Alcathous wrote:
If there isn't a huge debt restructuring, then we will have a Grexit in 3 years, at twice the cost of the European taxpayer, when Golden Dawn is in power.
Maybe they have to keep the debt restructuring secret because of extremist opinions in some Euro countries and to save their political leadership. So we all pretend Greece was offered nothing in return until it leaks out.
keep in mind that so far they havn't agreed on anything yet. Greek parliament still has to vote on wether THEY accept the proposal to begin with. IMF+other institutions still have to come to the conclusion that the proposal itself is realistic and wether the conditions are met. German as well as other nations parliaments still have to vote on wether THEY think the proposal is decent. It's going to be a bitch for Merkel to get her own party to agree with anything, especially if it does involve an increase in future lending like it was mentioned but I doubt it's going to fail there.
Could very well be that things still have to be changed.
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On July 10 2015 07:45 Gorsameth wrote:
How hard are we allowed to laugh if Tsipras stalled for time. Held the referendum after the deadline, plunged his country into massive capital control, got his precious No vote.
Only to accept the original proposal anyway?
Rule of thumb for any major political deadlock: any agreement will be made at the very, very last moment possible.
They don't exactly have zero room for negotiation, but Greece needs EU support more than EU needs to prevent a Grexit. Rhetoric aside, in the end the deal is based on who needs who more.
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so apparently the reforms proposed are those they opposed earlier with the referendum but in return they're asking for a bit more than 50bn and not just the former 30bn.
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Highway opened to fascist now. EU shits on Greek government, greek government shits on its people in return. Next time they wont vote for Syriza, they'll chose the other side.
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Its getting so funny. In Bulgaria there is an old saying "Greek tricks", now whole Europe sees what this means.
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Anyway, all this seems rather fishy. I would wait for a real statement coming from the Greek government to judge. As for now here is what is being said :
- Greeks accept almost everything that was asked for them (unified VAT at 23 %, retirement at 67 and 62 yo with 40 yo of work, the end of fiscal advantage for the islands, privatisation of public firms, such as regional airports, budget reduction for the defense) ;
- but against this they want the debt to be paid until 2018 (53 billions dollars), they ask for new trajectory for primary budget excedent and they want a "solution" for the debt.
Here are the Greek propositions (in english) :
http://fr.scribd.com/doc/271072237/Propositions-grecques
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On July 10 2015 17:13 WhiteDog wrote:Anyway, all this seems rather fishy. I would wait for a real statement coming from the Greek government to judge. As for now here is what is being said : - Greeks accept almost everything that was asked for them (unified VAT at 23 %, retirement at 67 and 62 yo with 40 yo of work, the end of fiscal advantage for the islands, privatisation of public firms, such as regional airports, budget reduction for the defense) ; - but against this they want the debt to be paid until 2018 (53 billions dollars), they ask for new trajectory for primary budget excedent and they want a "solution" for the debt. Here are the Greek propositions (in english) : http://fr.scribd.com/doc/271072237/Propositions-grecques
If that's true then the whole referendum was just an exercise in futility. I had hoped he would have gotten a little more leverage than just asking for an extra 30 billion euros.
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as someone from Europe, all is lost when Republicans agree with what you're doing
The Republican chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives tax-writing committee said on Thursday that Germany had no choice but to take a tough line on Greek debt.
"I don't think they have a choice in Europe and that choice is up to the Greeks and we'll see if they come back to terms, but it certainly doesn't look like that," Representative Paul Ryan said at a televised Politico forum.
"I don't see that the Germans have a choice but to take the line that they're taking."
source
For how much we like and prefer Obama as well as Dems in general over Republicans in Europe (most of us at least?), you know you might be doing something wrong when one of them agrees with what you're doing 
+ Show Spoiler +chances are I'm joking a little for the couple guys from the US who are reading in here as well o/
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On July 10 2015 16:14 mdb wrote:
Its getting so funny. In Bulgaria there is an old saying "Greek tricks", now whole Europe sees what this means.
Never heard of "Duzan si kao Grcka" ? More or less every Balkan country uses this to desrcibe someone who has major debts. Not even a new saying ...probably its as old as the Greece is independant.
They are in debt for 200 years. This is not the first time and will not be the last one for Greece unfortunately.
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On July 10 2015 18:54 SkelA wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2015 16:14 mdb wrote:
Its getting so funny. In Bulgaria there is an old saying "Greek tricks", now whole Europe sees what this means. Never heard of "Duzan si kao Grcka" ? More or less every Balkan country uses this to desrcibe someone who has major debts. Not even a new saying ...probably its as old as the Greece is independant. They are in debt for 200 years. This is not the first time and will not be the last one for Greece unfortunately.
Yeah, we have that too.The one I mentioned is more like in the context of that a greek will always find a way to not pay you.
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Every backwater country, and even some generally considered more civilized, have a derogatory slur for their neighbour or ethnic minority. I wouldn't flaunt those too proudly.
Maybe one day Greece will catch up the biggest baddest laziest debtor of them all and go for a tie of 7, counting in modern times.
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On July 10 2015 18:23 Toadesstern wrote:as someone from Europe, all is lost when Republicans agree with what you're doing Show nested quote +The Republican chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives tax-writing committee said on Thursday that Germany had no choice but to take a tough line on Greek debt.
"I don't think they have a choice in Europe and that choice is up to the Greeks and we'll see if they come back to terms, but it certainly doesn't look like that," Representative Paul Ryan said at a televised Politico forum.
"I don't see that the Germans have a choice but to take the line that they're taking." sourceFor how much we like and prefer Obama as well as Dems in general over Republicans in Europe (most of us at least?), you know you might be doing something wrong when one of them agrees with what you're doing + Show Spoiler +chances are I'm joking a little for the couple guys from the US who are reading in here as well o/
Agreeing with Paul Ryan is definitely a cause for concern 
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Where are the Greeks in the thread?
Is there outrage? is there consignment?
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what did obama have the eu do? Go -interests, and "print" some millions more for banks, and throw endless money at greece to keep the whole population in civil service ?
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On July 10 2015 20:56 c0ldfusion wrote:
Where are the Greeks in the thread?
Is there outrage? is there consignment?
They must be at the beach.
User was warned for this post
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It's holiday season for the Greeks. That's why they were so desperate to get the referendum done before the government shuts down.
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EPT
