|
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
![[image loading]](http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-JF713_GRSLID_J_20150705103912.jpg)
ATHENS—Voting ended in Greece’s referendum Sunday, with several opinion polls taken during the day predicting a narrow victory for the “no” side.
The referendum has laid bare stark divisions about the struggling country’s future in the Eurozone, as voters weighed in on whether to accept lenders’ demands for far-reaching economic overhauls. No exit polls were taken in the Greek vote, and the result is expected to be close.
The referendum appears to have split Greece along lines of age, affluence and ideology. The young, many pensioners, the poor and those with pronounced left-wing or nationalist right-wing views are leaning toward a “no.” Middle-class, middle-aged and politically centrist voters are more likely to vote “yes” to protect Greece’s place in the eurozone.
Source
Fun fact, I actually know Yanis Varoufakis. Nice guy, but I wasn't impressed by his research. He made some pretty big mistakes in his assumptions on some of his work.
|
On July 06 2015 01:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
Fun fact, I actually know Yanis Varoufakis. Nice guy, but I wasn't impressed by his research. He made some pretty big mistakes in his assumptions on some of his work.
You were his PhD promoter/doctoral advisor? (Or he was your professors promoter?)
If Greeks vote 'yes', he can be my financial minister (im Dutch). Better than what we have here now.
|
If this ends up a near 50/50 split its going to be a mess regardless of which side comes out ahead. Basing the entire dramatic course of a country on a 2% margin... it has the potential for trouble.
|
A lot of polls showing a narrow victory for the No. Too many different polls saying the same thing, looks like Oxi has won. Of course, we'll only know what that actually means in the coming weeks/months.
|
Current results show 52% NO - 48% YES.
This is gonna take a while...
|
A bunch of polls ordered by the Swedish government all shows that the NO side will win, The banks of Sweden are already considering the No side as victors and have started to construct plans as of how to deal with it.
|
Yes = Negotiate a deal, stay in the EU
No = Default, leave the EU
Correct?
|
On July 06 2015 02:17 Amnesty wrote:
Yes = Negotiate a deal, stay in the EU
No = Default, leave the EU
Correct?
That is the dumbest, out of a lot of dumb things in this referendum: nobody even knows what they're voting for, including the Greeks doing the voting.
|
On July 06 2015 02:17 Amnesty wrote:
Yes = Negotiate a deal, stay in the EU
No = Default, leave the EU
Correct?
Yes = Aggree on any terms, stay in the EU
No = Negotiate a deal, stay in the EU
At least thats how I see things after this exhausting week.
|
On July 06 2015 02:17 Amnesty wrote:
Yes = Negotiate a deal, stay in the EU
No = Default, leave the EU
Correct?
Depends on the response of the ECB, IMF and the rest of the EU. It increases the likelihood quite a lot, though.
|
Greeks since last general elections have been very uncooperative answering to opinion polls because they have been systematically exploited by corrupt parties and media:
Official results @15%
Yes: 39.8% No: 60.2
+ Show Spoiler +
|
On July 06 2015 02:17 Amnesty wrote:
Yes = Negotiate a deal, stay in the EU
No = Default, leave the EU
Correct?
Things can change. Even on a No I would expect the EU to make some attempts at solving the situation but in broad lines you are correct.
|
They'll stay in the EU no matter what, but depending on what the institutions do they might have to introduce a parallel currency. That idea seems to have gotten some traction.
|
On July 06 2015 01:41 Alcathous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2015 01:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
Fun fact, I actually know Yanis Varoufakis. Nice guy, but I wasn't impressed by his research. He made some pretty big mistakes in his assumptions on some of his work. You were his PhD promoter/doctoral advisor? (Or he was your professors promoter?) If Greeks vote 'yes', he can be my financial minister (im Dutch). Better than what we have here now.
He was the economist at Steam, then worked at UT Austin (or one of the other UT's, I forget). I was doing some work with my business school's PhD program (basically super applied econ) and I found some of his work. I emailed him, and he replied-- was a tad surprised that he replied to an undergrad. We corresponded for a bit, I emailed him congrats on becoming finance minister. He said thanks. Like I said, really nice guy.
This being a gaming forum, a lot of his ideas were predicated on a relatively stable supple of "stuff". He didn't factor inflation or the fact that in most full-fledged virtual economies the money/ resource supply is constantly expanding-- people are always farming, looting, grinding or whatever. In real life, most activities cost money-- in video games, most activities make money. The exceptions to these rules are either economies like Eve (sort of) where things get mined, built, then blown up, or when developers put in effective currency sinks.
You can talk to real economists about the rest of his work. I'm just a bit of a dabbler. 
|
So seems like No wins. I guess there will be no more excuses from our politicians that Greece should stay in the Euro. Finally a Grexit seems near, which actually is the best option for both sides (was in 2012 as well). Greece will default, all debt will be restructured into the new currency. Massive inflation and the Greece can actually decide for themselves whether they want to continue their no production mass social care economy or not, since they wont get any loans from capital markets or the EU in either case.
|
On July 06 2015 02:19 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2015 02:17 Amnesty wrote:
Yes = Negotiate a deal, stay in the EU
No = Default, leave the EU
Correct? That is the dumbest, out of a lot of dumb things in this referendum: nobody even knows what they're voting for, including the Greeks doing the voting.
it's one of the huge flaws of democracy.. The vast majority of voters probably don't understand the exact implications of their vote on a surface level, and I would be willing to bet that you would be hard pressed to find anyone outside of wallstreet and the ECB that could accurately describe what Y/N votes actually implied. It's a complete and utter crapshoot, although in reality Y/N probably lead to the same result in the long run, being cultural reforms in Greece (and probably political reform as well).
It's (imo) one of the best things about having a senate/parliament decide these kind of things rather than an entire populace. While the populace might not be 100% represented in a senate, the senate has access to financial advisers that can ideally provide guidance on extremely complicated financial matters. While it gives the advisers undue power over the country, it's pretty common in how the US regulates its financial sector since not every senator can be an ex wallstreet exec (and it allows the representation of other classes to increase as well, which is the point of a democracy after all). not to mention that the SEC and the Federal Reserve are predominantly populated with ex-wallstreet people, leading to some people commenting that there's undue bias in American financial legislation.
|
I just hope a "no" means no more money from the EU technocrats and leaders.
I know, won´t happen 
|
On July 06 2015 03:13 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2015 02:19 Acrofales wrote:On July 06 2015 02:17 Amnesty wrote:
Yes = Negotiate a deal, stay in the EU
No = Default, leave the EU
Correct? That is the dumbest, out of a lot of dumb things in this referendum: nobody even knows what they're voting for, including the Greeks doing the voting. it's one of the huge flaws of democracy.. The vast majority of voters probably don't understand the exact implications of their vote on a surface level, and I would be willing to bet that you would be hard pressed to find anyone outside of wallstreet and the ECB that could accurately describe what Y/N votes actually implied. It's a complete and utter crapshoot, although in reality Y/N probably lead to the same result in the long run, being cultural reforms in Greece (and probably political reform as well). It's (imo) one of the best things about having a senate/parliament decide these kind of things rather than an entire populace. While the populace might not be 100% represented in a senate, the senate has access to financial advisers that can ideally provide guidance on extremely complicated financial matters. While it gives the advisers undue power over the country, it's pretty common in how the US regulates its financial sector since not every senator can be an ex wallstreet exec (and it allows the representation of other classes to increase as well, which is the point of a democracy after all). not to mention that the SEC and the Federal Reserve are predominantly populated with ex-wallstreet people, leading to some people commenting that there's undue bias in American financial legislation.
The revolving door between the Banks, Wall Street and the regulatory bodies are the biggest problems with have in the entire finance industry, in the States. Corruption does nasty things to government agencies.
|
On July 06 2015 03:13 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2015 02:19 Acrofales wrote:On July 06 2015 02:17 Amnesty wrote:
Yes = Negotiate a deal, stay in the EU
No = Default, leave the EU
Correct? That is the dumbest, out of a lot of dumb things in this referendum: nobody even knows what they're voting for, including the Greeks doing the voting. it's one of the huge flaws of democracy.. The vast majority of voters probably don't understand the exact implications of their vote on a surface level, and I would be willing to bet that you would be hard pressed to find anyone outside of wallstreet and the ECB that could accurately describe what Y/N votes actually implied. It's a complete and utter crapshoot, although in reality Y/N probably lead to the same result in the long run, being cultural reforms in Greece (and probably political reform as well). It's (imo) one of the best things about having a senate/parliament decide these kind of things rather than an entire populace. While the populace might not be 100% represented in a senate, the senate has access to financial advisers that can ideally provide guidance on extremely complicated financial matters. While it gives the advisers undue power over the country, it's pretty common in how the US regulates its financial sector since not every senator can be an ex wallstreet exec (and it allows the representation of other classes to increase as well, which is the point of a democracy after all). not to mention that the SEC and the Federal Reserve are predominantly populated with ex-wallstreet people, leading to some people commenting that there's undue bias in American financial legislation.
You might be mixing up Senate and Congress. The Greeks have a unicameral parliament, which is more akin to "Congress" than Senate which is one of the rooms of Congress (which is bicameral in the US). I'm unaware of any governments which call their parliament or their entire legislature "senate". Might be wrong but ye.
|
On July 06 2015 03:18 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2015 03:13 Endymion wrote:On July 06 2015 02:19 Acrofales wrote:On July 06 2015 02:17 Amnesty wrote:
Yes = Negotiate a deal, stay in the EU
No = Default, leave the EU
Correct? That is the dumbest, out of a lot of dumb things in this referendum: nobody even knows what they're voting for, including the Greeks doing the voting. it's one of the huge flaws of democracy.. The vast majority of voters probably don't understand the exact implications of their vote on a surface level, and I would be willing to bet that you would be hard pressed to find anyone outside of wallstreet and the ECB that could accurately describe what Y/N votes actually implied. It's a complete and utter crapshoot, although in reality Y/N probably lead to the same result in the long run, being cultural reforms in Greece (and probably political reform as well). It's (imo) one of the best things about having a senate/parliament decide these kind of things rather than an entire populace. While the populace might not be 100% represented in a senate, the senate has access to financial advisers that can ideally provide guidance on extremely complicated financial matters. While it gives the advisers undue power over the country, it's pretty common in how the US regulates its financial sector since not every senator can be an ex wallstreet exec (and it allows the representation of other classes to increase as well, which is the point of a democracy after all). not to mention that the SEC and the Federal Reserve are predominantly populated with ex-wallstreet people, leading to some people commenting that there's undue bias in American financial legislation. You might be mixing up Senate and Congress. The Greeks have a unicameral parliament, which is more akin to "Congress" than Senate which is one of the rooms of Congress. I'm unaware of any governments which call their parliament or their entire legislature "senate". Might be wrong but ye.
sorry i meant congress as a whole, i dunno why i said senate. and i was talking more about this massive referendum more than the formal parliament, i have never heard of a populace voting in this manner rather than just delegating votes. why isn't the greek parliament doing all of this behind closed doors?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/166/745/queen-rock-group-freddie-mercury-in-concert-at-st-james-park-in-newcastle-1986.jpg)
