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On July 14 2020 17:06 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 15:15 Sent. wrote:Maybe it's because I haven't woken up completely yet, but I don't understand what you mean by a leader of people can't legitimize people as such Sexuality is core to what makes humans, well, human.
Not at all. Our sexuality is very similiar to a lot of other mammals, nothing special here. Our brains, our language, use of tools, that make us what we are. I personnaly object the notion that my sexualty is the defning factor of my existance, thanks to our brains we can transcend our sexuality and live our lives without constantly abiding to whims of our hormons.
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On July 14 2020 16:35 Silvanel wrote:
Polish websites regularly translate parts of articles about Poland from western newspapers back into polish. This is source of strong anti western sentiment as they select most egregious and edgy parts of articles. Even i get angry at those 'pesky westerners' when i read that and i have a strong anti PiS leaning. The thing is the LGBT issues are not something that is winning PiS elections, they are winning because the control state media and cause of their social programmas, LGBT stuff is mostly smoke and mirrors.
As a reader of those pesky media I have also noticed a lot blanket accusations against PiS usually without any real specifics about their attempts to control the media and limit LGBTQ rights. Maybe you - and maybe Drone, since you mentioned the anti-LGBTQ thing - could give more specifics about those totalitarian tendencies? (No, those ”quotes” weren’t helpfull, Drone  )
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On July 14 2020 17:18 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 17:06 Uldridge wrote:On July 14 2020 15:15 Sent. wrote:Maybe it's because I haven't woken up completely yet, but I don't understand what you mean by a leader of people can't legitimize people as such Sexuality is core to what makes humans, well, human. Not at all. Our sexuality is very similiar to a lot of other mammals, nothing special here. Our brains, our language, use of tools, that make us what we are. I personnaly object the notion that my sexualty is the defning factor of my existance, thanks to our brains we can transcend our sexuality and live our lives without constantly abiding to whims of our hormons.
I think he didn't formulate it properly. Gender and sexuality may not be core to our humanity, but they are core to our identity. If as a young man you feel attracted to other young men, you really don't need the president of your country telling you you're perverted. However, I also realize that for most people this is a non-issue on election day (probably including me, it's just that most people who have abhorrent opinions on LGBTQ rights have abhorrent opinions on most other things). The media myopically focusing on this does not do anybody any favours. The focus should be on all the far scarier shit PiS has been doing: they pulled a page out of Erdogan's playbook and are slowly breaking down Polish democratic institutions... which are probably frailer than Turkey's to begin with, because they have had less time to build them up sturdily.
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On July 14 2020 17:18 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 17:06 Uldridge wrote:On July 14 2020 15:15 Sent. wrote:Maybe it's because I haven't woken up completely yet, but I don't understand what you mean by a leader of people can't legitimize people as such Sexuality is core to what makes humans, well, human. Not at all. Our sexuality is very similiar to a lot of other mammals, nothing special here. Our brains, our language, use of tools, that make us what we are. I personnaly object the notion that my sexualty is the defning factor of my existance, thanks to our brains we can transcend our sexuality and live our lives without constantly abiding to whims of our hormons.
Sorry, I should have used "part of the core that makes us human". I agree that the things you've listed are important, but we have very elaborate and complex rituals and feelings and nuances surrounding sexuality that denying it being at least part of core humanity is being dishonest.
There's a reason why the LGBTQ community exists. People want to profile them as being oriented a certain way. If it wasn't important, why would it be such a big deal?
Sexuality is much more than hormonal whims. Humans made it into something metaphysical.
Valentine's day, gay pride parades, pornography, fetishism, swingers clubs, polyamory vs. monogamy, kamasutra.
Why elaborate this much when it should just be copulation?
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Actually as i said before i think they PiS and our politics is more resembling US Republicans than Erdogan.
The rule of law:
When in previous parlimentary election PiS won absolute majority and later they also won the presidency they realized that the only thing standing between them and absolute power is judicary branch. So they started to work on that. But they do so in Republican way, they abuse holes in laws, pass new laws when possible, they do not blatantly violate them, however if law says "someone has to do something, but there is no sanction mentioned for not doing that, then it is fair game". They expanded control over courts but here we need to note two things:
-some European countries per tradition offer even greater control over judicary branch, we are not yet in authoritatrian territory
-our courts are viewed by population as corrupt, so many people are happy PiS is working on that. This is i would say not accurate, the nepotism, ineffectivness and incompetence in our courts is real, blantant corruption not so much.
-i will also add that during previous PiS government, they actually passed some laws in regards to judicary which i think are only for good
In tottal i would say that it is true, they are damaging our court system and stacking it with their people but as we can see from US this is not something new to western democracies.
The economy:
PiS is creating multitiude of new small taxes and introduced a lot of social programms. This is not done out of good of their hearts but rather to secure reelection. The 500+ program is most famous, but far from being only one. They are also keen on getting money from foreign companies (mainly US and German) who are making business in Poland but are paying none to very little taxes here. Nedlees to say this makes nationalist wet themselves and foreign officials hostile. While i do not doubt the necessity of social programms i am worried some of them will create pernament unemployment and dependencies. Rather than rise people of poverty they will contribute to stratification.
Church, religion and LGBT.
The Catholic church is strong ally of PiS and they are very vocal about traditional values. They attempted some drastic changes but were met with strong oposition and those changes (for example to abortion law) were aborted. Still church is expanding its influance and it wont let go anytime soon. Regarding the LGBT that might be hard to swallow but Poland IS much more conservative than western countries. They do not need to antagonize people against LGBT they are simply usuing something that is already present in population. Outside of major cities it is hard to find someone not viewing LGBT with disdain (and even in main cities it very visible).
Control of state media:
This issue should not be overlooked. Traditionally the TVP1 and TVP2 TV stations are the most viewed in Poland. PiS assumed total and direct control over it and uses it to funnel its propaganda. It is blantant, it is scary, is absolutly not fair, it is working.
The oposition:
The main opposing party has huge negative electorate. It is viewed as party of elites, intelectuals, bankers, foreign capital, big city people. It is true to some degree. Their spokepeople/parlimentarians are often terrible and cannot hold out their disadain for people voting for PiS --> Those receiving social benefits, living in less developed parts of country. Other opposition parties also have huge problems and varying.
The hipocrysy:
During COVID epidemy PiS passed a lot of laws protecting employeers and companies, not a single law protecting employees. They even took back some protections. This shows they do not really care about poor people losing jobs, they care about who screams loudests. They are also stealing even more than PO did and are more blantant about it, they are putting incomptent Yes Mens everywhere. But their propaganda machine is really effective and people also love to "stick it to the elites" just like americans love to "stick it to the liberals". Oh they also adpoted american practice of amending laws with things that are tottaly not related to that law. Lets increase pusnhiments for certain crimes in COVID related law, why not.
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Thank you, Silvanel. Yeah, that sounds a lot like the Republicans of today. This sounds especially worrying imo:
Traditionally the TVP1 and TVP2 TV stations are the most viewed in Poland. PiS assumed total and direct control over it and uses it to funnel its propaganda. It is blantant, it is scary, is absolutly not fair, it is working.
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On July 14 2020 17:18 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 17:06 Uldridge wrote:On July 14 2020 15:15 Sent. wrote:Maybe it's because I haven't woken up completely yet, but I don't understand what you mean by a leader of people can't legitimize people as such Sexuality is core to what makes humans, well, human. Not at all. Our sexuality is very similiar to a lot of other mammals, nothing special here. Our brains, our language, use of tools, that make us what we are. I personnaly object the notion that my sexualty is the defning factor of my existance, thanks to our brains we can transcend our sexuality and live our lives without constantly abiding to whims of our hormons.
I hardly see how sexuality is not a fundamental trait of what it means to be human. The fact that it is shared by most if not all life is hardly an argument again in central place in our lives. You can transcend sexuality (or can you?) but transcending doesn't mean ignoring - it means, well, transcending, using it for a higher purpose. If art is transcended sexual energy - as many philosopher believed -, there would be no art without sexuality. I would argue with Freud that sexuality is the one most important thing in our existence, and that most of what we do or desire is rooted in it. Sexuality is the engine that makes us crave for connection with each other and what makes us love.
Read any story, watch any movie from the dawn of time to your last Netflix show, and more often than not, sexuality will have an enormous role. Is there a Shakespeare play in which sexuality is not somewhat central?
I think there is a good reason why LGBT are a central issue, and why they face such hatred, disdain and rejection. It questions far more than what we do in our bedrooms, and some people - whether they realize it or not - feel extremely threatened by it.
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On July 14 2020 17:38 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 17:18 Silvanel wrote:On July 14 2020 17:06 Uldridge wrote:On July 14 2020 15:15 Sent. wrote:Maybe it's because I haven't woken up completely yet, but I don't understand what you mean by a leader of people can't legitimize people as such Sexuality is core to what makes humans, well, human. Not at all. Our sexuality is very similiar to a lot of other mammals, nothing special here. Our brains, our language, use of tools, that make us what we are. I personnaly object the notion that my sexualty is the defning factor of my existance, thanks to our brains we can transcend our sexuality and live our lives without constantly abiding to whims of our hormons. Sorry, I should have used "part of the core that makes us human". I agree that the things you've listed are important, but we have very elaborate and complex rituals and feelings and nuances surrounding sexuality that denying it being at least part of core humanity is being dishonest. There's a reason why the LGBTQ community exists. People want to profile them as being oriented a certain way. If it wasn't important, why would it be such a big deal? Sexuality is much more than hormonal whims. Humans made it into something metaphysical. Valentine's day, gay pride parades, pornography, fetishism, swingers clubs, polyamory vs. monogamy, kamasutra. Why elaborate this much when it should just be copulation?
That is one of the eternal philosophical debates: human erotic love. Of course, in Christianity, from Ancient Greek, there are many words which we have translated into "love." The ultimate Christian virtue being "Charity," in the King James translation, but Charity is a bit of a deceptive translation for modern audiences. We get that word from the Vulgate Latin translation, "Caritas," which we have made into "Charity," but from the same source also came such words as "Caring," etc.
The debate over human sexual love though is one which was engaged with heavily in the 19th century, I listened a bit to Roger Scruton's youtube lecture on the "philosophy" of Richard Wagner. He said that whereas in Kant's philosophical writings, love between a man and a woman was what humans had in common with other animals, the lowest aspect of our nature, Wagner thought and lived very differently.
He points it out in the Wagnerian Opera, "Tristan und Isolde," how that Opera transcends the traditional definitions of "Comedy" vs. "Tragedy." At the end of the opera, the "heroes" die...but drift into a higher state of "nothingness." Some might call it a kind of love that is too high to ever be expressed in life. So they had to die to "find" each other. At the end of the Opera, the lovers die. We do not see what happens afterwards. It is possible that they drift into a higher state of existence, and the entire opera hints at this possibility.
So is erotic love a thing that we have in common with the birds and the bees? Many great minds have already wrestled with that question, and are still wrestling with it.
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On July 14 2020 17:06 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 15:15 Sent. wrote:Maybe it's because I haven't woken up completely yet, but I don't understand what you mean by a leader of people can't legitimize people as such I wasn't fully awake either, but I meant legitimizing people as people. Sexuality is core to what makes humans, well, human. Denying them that by discrimination is dehumanizing them, aka, delegitimizing people. I don't even know if it makes sense to use this specific word.
Except he didn't say that LGBT people were not people. By "LGBT ideology" the political Right in Poland means the critical theory-inspired LGBT activism.
On July 14 2020 18:56 Elroi wrote:Thank you, Silvanel. Yeah, that sounds a lot like the Republicans of today. This sounds especially worrying imo: Show nested quote +Traditionally the TVP1 and TVP2 TV stations are the most viewed in Poland. PiS assumed total and direct control over it and uses it to funnel its propaganda. It is blantant, it is scary, is absolutly not fair, it is working.
What's even more worrying is that right after the election they've started openly talking about curbing dissenting media.
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On July 14 2020 19:14 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 17:06 Uldridge wrote:On July 14 2020 15:15 Sent. wrote:Maybe it's because I haven't woken up completely yet, but I don't understand what you mean by a leader of people can't legitimize people as such I wasn't fully awake either, but I meant legitimizing people as people. Sexuality is core to what makes humans, well, human. Denying them that by discrimination is dehumanizing them, aka, delegitimizing people. I don't even know if it makes sense to use this specific word. Except he didn't say that LGBT people were not people. By "LGBT ideology" the political Right in Poland means the critical theory-inspired LGBT activism. Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 18:56 Elroi wrote:Thank you, Silvanel. Yeah, that sounds a lot like the Republicans of today. This sounds especially worrying imo: Traditionally the TVP1 and TVP2 TV stations are the most viewed in Poland. PiS assumed total and direct control over it and uses it to funnel its propaganda. It is blantant, it is scary, is absolutly not fair, it is working. What's even more worrying is that right after the election they've started openly talking about curbing dissenting media.
For many, regarding LGBTQ people as people *Is* "critical theory-inspired LGBT activism," and why shouldn't it be, it was activism that got governments to recognize LGBTQ people in many cases. It is extremely common for anti-LGBTQ folks to elide the distinction between basic respect/autonomy and programmatic indoctrination of the populace with LGBTQ ideas (whatever those may be).
So what do you mean exactly? Was there no one opposed to treating LGBTQ people like people in Poland?
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On July 14 2020 20:05 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 19:14 maybenexttime wrote:On July 14 2020 17:06 Uldridge wrote:On July 14 2020 15:15 Sent. wrote:Maybe it's because I haven't woken up completely yet, but I don't understand what you mean by a leader of people can't legitimize people as such I wasn't fully awake either, but I meant legitimizing people as people. Sexuality is core to what makes humans, well, human. Denying them that by discrimination is dehumanizing them, aka, delegitimizing people. I don't even know if it makes sense to use this specific word. Except he didn't say that LGBT people were not people. By "LGBT ideology" the political Right in Poland means the critical theory-inspired LGBT activism. On July 14 2020 18:56 Elroi wrote:Thank you, Silvanel. Yeah, that sounds a lot like the Republicans of today. This sounds especially worrying imo: Traditionally the TVP1 and TVP2 TV stations are the most viewed in Poland. PiS assumed total and direct control over it and uses it to funnel its propaganda. It is blantant, it is scary, is absolutly not fair, it is working. What's even more worrying is that right after the election they've started openly talking about curbing dissenting media. For many, regarding LGBTQ people as people *Is* "critical theory-inspired LGBT activism," and why shouldn't it be, it was activism that got governments to recognize LGBTQ people in many cases. It is extremely common for anti-LGBTQ folks to elide the distinction between basic respect/autonomy and programmatic indoctrination of the populace with LGBTQ ideas (whatever those may be). So what do you mean exactly? Was there no one opposed to treating LGBTQ people like people in Poland?
Critical theory-inspired LGBT activism =/= LGBT (or LGB at least) activism. It is equally common for activists to elide this distinction. People fighting for LGBT emancipation should distance themselves from it instead of trying to smuggle certain ideas under the guise of emancipation. They should take notes from the British Conservatives.
There are certainly people in our politics that rile people up against LGBT people as such. They're rather fringe, though. The quote in question was not it. It's the "criticizing Islam =/= attacking Muslims" debate all over again, except the language is a bit confusing.
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On July 14 2020 21:03 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 20:05 farvacola wrote:On July 14 2020 19:14 maybenexttime wrote:On July 14 2020 17:06 Uldridge wrote:On July 14 2020 15:15 Sent. wrote:Maybe it's because I haven't woken up completely yet, but I don't understand what you mean by a leader of people can't legitimize people as such I wasn't fully awake either, but I meant legitimizing people as people. Sexuality is core to what makes humans, well, human. Denying them that by discrimination is dehumanizing them, aka, delegitimizing people. I don't even know if it makes sense to use this specific word. Except he didn't say that LGBT people were not people. By "LGBT ideology" the political Right in Poland means the critical theory-inspired LGBT activism. On July 14 2020 18:56 Elroi wrote:Thank you, Silvanel. Yeah, that sounds a lot like the Republicans of today. This sounds especially worrying imo: Traditionally the TVP1 and TVP2 TV stations are the most viewed in Poland. PiS assumed total and direct control over it and uses it to funnel its propaganda. It is blantant, it is scary, is absolutly not fair, it is working. What's even more worrying is that right after the election they've started openly talking about curbing dissenting media. For many, regarding LGBTQ people as people *Is* "critical theory-inspired LGBT activism," and why shouldn't it be, it was activism that got governments to recognize LGBTQ people in many cases. It is extremely common for anti-LGBTQ folks to elide the distinction between basic respect/autonomy and programmatic indoctrination of the populace with LGBTQ ideas (whatever those may be). So what do you mean exactly? Was there no one opposed to treating LGBTQ people like people in Poland? Critical theory-inspired LGBT activism =/= LGBT (or LGB at least) activism. It is equally common for activists to elide this distinction. People fighting for LGBT emancipation should distance themselves from it instead of trying smuggle certain ideas under the guise of emancipation. They should take notes from the British Conservatives. There are certainly people in our politics that rile people up against LGBT people as such. They're rather fringe, though. The quote in question was not it. It's the "criticizing Islam =/= attacking Muslims" debate all over again, except the language is a bit confusing.
Is it your view that feminism and LGBTQ activism just appeared out of thin air? Where exactly do you think those things came from? Was Simone De Beauvoir a critical theorist? How about bell hooks, or even someone like Frederick Douglass? What exactly is it about the critical theory label that appeals to you as a point of difference? Are you opposed to concepts like “the personal is the political”?
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On July 14 2020 21:49 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 21:03 maybenexttime wrote:On July 14 2020 20:05 farvacola wrote:On July 14 2020 19:14 maybenexttime wrote:On July 14 2020 17:06 Uldridge wrote:On July 14 2020 15:15 Sent. wrote:Maybe it's because I haven't woken up completely yet, but I don't understand what you mean by a leader of people can't legitimize people as such I wasn't fully awake either, but I meant legitimizing people as people. Sexuality is core to what makes humans, well, human. Denying them that by discrimination is dehumanizing them, aka, delegitimizing people. I don't even know if it makes sense to use this specific word. Except he didn't say that LGBT people were not people. By "LGBT ideology" the political Right in Poland means the critical theory-inspired LGBT activism. On July 14 2020 18:56 Elroi wrote:Thank you, Silvanel. Yeah, that sounds a lot like the Republicans of today. This sounds especially worrying imo: Traditionally the TVP1 and TVP2 TV stations are the most viewed in Poland. PiS assumed total and direct control over it and uses it to funnel its propaganda. It is blantant, it is scary, is absolutly not fair, it is working. What's even more worrying is that right after the election they've started openly talking about curbing dissenting media. For many, regarding LGBTQ people as people *Is* "critical theory-inspired LGBT activism," and why shouldn't it be, it was activism that got governments to recognize LGBTQ people in many cases. It is extremely common for anti-LGBTQ folks to elide the distinction between basic respect/autonomy and programmatic indoctrination of the populace with LGBTQ ideas (whatever those may be). So what do you mean exactly? Was there no one opposed to treating LGBTQ people like people in Poland? Critical theory-inspired LGBT activism =/= LGBT (or LGB at least) activism. It is equally common for activists to elide this distinction. People fighting for LGBT emancipation should distance themselves from it instead of trying smuggle certain ideas under the guise of emancipation. They should take notes from the British Conservatives. There are certainly people in our politics that rile people up against LGBT people as such. They're rather fringe, though. The quote in question was not it. It's the "criticizing Islam =/= attacking Muslims" debate all over again, except the language is a bit confusing. Is it your view that feminism and LGBTQ activism just appeared out of thin air? Where exactly do you think those things came from? Was Simone De Beauvoir a critical theorist? How about bell hooks, or even someone like Frederick Douglass? What exactly is it about the critical theory label that appeals to you as a point of difference? Are you opposed to concepts like “the personal is the political”?
There are different strains of feminism and LGBT activism. Some are benign and truly egalitarian, and some are outright toxic and hateful, often unscientific. There are people on both sides who lump them all together. People on the left - to smuggle some of their extremist ideas. People on the right - to have a boogeyman to scare their voters with. This is the reason why so few people consider themselves feminists despite being for equality of women.
It's in the best interest of the LGBT people to distance themselves from ideas most people find unpalatable. Using the approach of the Tories has a much higher chance of success, considering the cultural context.
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Norway28649 Posts
Can you provide some specific examples of issues LGBT people fight for that are toxic and hateful? (I know that there are some extreme feminists who can accurately be described as such, but I've never seen this from the LGBT community. )
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On July 14 2020 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Can you provide some specific examples of issues LGBT people fight for that are toxic and hateful? (I know that there are some extreme feminists who can accurately be described as such, but I've never seen this from the LGBT community. )
Trans people attacking non-trans people for not finding them sexually attractive (due to their biology or for other reasons) or people who disagree with trans women competing in women sports (if they have an unfair advantage). Gay people being in denial of risks associated with certain sexual behaviors and claiming people who bring up those issues are bigoted. Those come to mind right now. I'm sure there's more.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On July 14 2020 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Can you provide some specific examples of issues LGBT people fight for that are toxic and hateful? (I know that there are some extreme feminists who can accurately be described as such, but I've never seen this from the LGBT community. )
A lot of the concepts associated with transgender roles fall well into this camp - obsessions with odd pronouns, gender fluidity, much of the "transgender uses which bathroom" movement had traces of this. Mostly if you watch any decent right-wing production that makes fun of insane left-wing concepts they have a knack for finding some of the most batshit insane stuff, a lot of which has a tie-in to LGBT.
More insidious, perhaps, is the way that LGBT is often used as the token issue of choice to promote a liberal / left-of-center agenda including several unrelated concepts such as corporatism, free trade, and immigration. The latter issues generally have a much more widespread impact, but it's easier to be vocal by stoking disdain for a given opponent by using social issues such as LGBT or racism. Whether or not you agree with the social or economic stances outlined here, it's hard to deny that social issues are used as a cover to promote an economic agenda, as the past week's media blitz against Duda has clearly demonstrated.
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On July 14 2020 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Can you provide some specific examples of issues LGBT people fight for that are toxic and hateful? (I know that there are some extreme feminists who can accurately be described as such, but I've never seen this from the LGBT community. )
I know that male prisoners that have switched genders to female, and the committed rape in female prisons in GB. Blow my mind that this is have happened.
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Norway28649 Posts
On July 14 2020 23:20 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Can you provide some specific examples of issues LGBT people fight for that are toxic and hateful? (I know that there are some extreme feminists who can accurately be described as such, but I've never seen this from the LGBT community. ) Trans people attacking non-trans people for not finding them sexually attractive (due to their biology or for other reasons) or people who disagree with trans women competing in women sports (if they have an unfair advantage). Gay people being in denial of risks associated with certain sexual behaviors and claiming people who bring up those issues are bigoted. Those come to mind right now. I'm sure there's more.
I'm not gonna state that none of these ever occur or that it never takes a toxic or hateful form but I really don't see them as being championed by the 'lgbt community' in any sort of prominence. By this type of broad definition literally every single group that identifies as anything has hateful and toxic elements, be it traditional liberals, neoliberals, traditional conservatives, social democrats, socialists, environmentalists.
I'm almost reading this as 'participating in a political debate and stating that your opposition holds ideas that are harmful to individuals or society' is toxic and hateful. Basically I was expecting something akin to Valerie Solanas type of feminism rather than 'some trans people and some gay people are irrationally defensive'. My impression is that most trans people are accepting of MTF transition not being allowed to compete in women's sports and that they are understanding (yet also understandably saddened, which makes the occasional irrational lashing out be a fairly predictable form of behavior) of people not being sexually attracted to them.
I also think gay people overwhelmingly understand that participating in mass orgies or unprotected gloryhole events runs a risk of contracting sexual disease but that even then, 'you're gonna get aids' is still a bigoted statement.
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Norway28649 Posts
On July 14 2020 23:31 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2020 22:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Can you provide some specific examples of issues LGBT people fight for that are toxic and hateful? (I know that there are some extreme feminists who can accurately be described as such, but I've never seen this from the LGBT community. ) A lot of the concepts associated with transgender roles fall well into this camp - obsessions with odd pronouns, gender fluidity, much of the "transgender uses which bathroom" movement had traces of this. Mostly if you watch any decent right-wing production that makes fun of insane left-wing concepts they have a knack for finding some of the most batshit insane stuff, a lot of which has a tie-in to LGBT. More insidious, perhaps, is the way that LGBT is often used as the token issue of choice to promote a liberal / left-of-center agenda including several unrelated concepts such as corporatism, free trade, and immigration. The latter issues generally have a much more widespread impact, but it's easier to be vocal by stoking disdain for a given opponent by using social issues such as LGBT or racism. Whether or not you agree with the social or economic stances outlined here, it's hard to deny that social issues are used as a cover to promote an economic agenda, as the past week's media blitz against Duda has clearly demonstrated.
That latter paragraph is really grasping at straws, I don't see the relevance. I'm asking what LGBT issues LGBT people fight for. In most European countries there are many political options that are socially liberal but not particularly fond of neoliberal economic policies. (Even if this was not present in the second round of the polish presidential election)
And I see the various transgender pronouns stuff much more in terms of 'there are some young americans particularly on the west coast who have opinions on gender fluidity that older people don't agree with, let's lump these people together with people fighting for equality for homosexuals so we can fight against that', than it actually having relevance from the point of view of what homosexuals in poland or even western europe fight for.
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It does give an impression of trojaning in conspiracy theory of "liberal LGBT plot" through a pretense of lessened extremism. Somewhat along the lines of "Okay, so not EVERY LGBT person is a part of the conspiracy, but there's some of them, and there's DEFINITELY STILL a conspiracy going on!"
It all tastes of classical stupid conservative conspiracy theories to me, anchored in masculine fragility.
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