EPTthis is a chance for greece to escape the system, default, fuck the debt, start new.
im looking forward to it.
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 126
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
this is a chance for greece to escape the system, default, fuck the debt, start new. im looking forward to it. | ||
|
accela
Greece314 Posts
On June 28 2015 03:40 Gorsameth wrote: I'm sorry but, wtf are you even talking about. None of that has anything to do with what I said. I was simply commenting on your incapability to even try to read materials that have to do with the discussion and if you still wish to fortify behind your obsessed bias at least use some up-to-date populist rhetoric. Reading for 5 years about the same, almost racist, argument about the lazy and corrupt Greek, some pure racism about "missing Hellenic germs" is certainly more dangerous but at least not as boring. | ||
|
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On June 28 2015 02:54 Taguchi wrote: The ones that haven't been in power yet are the communists and the nazis. I have no idea what your point is here. | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22085 Posts
On June 28 2015 03:58 accela wrote: I was simply commenting on your incapability to even try to read materials that have to do with the discussion and if you still wish to fortify behind your obsessed bias at least use some up-to-date populist rhetoric. Reading for 5 years about the same, almost racist, argument about the lazy and corrupt Greek, some pure racism about "missing Hellenic germs" is certainly more dangerous but at least not as boring. Call it whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that Greece did not meet the requirements set forth by the bailout and that as a result the IMF/ECB was unlikely to accept a compromise. But I guess its easier to blame the rest of the world for your own problems. | ||
|
Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On June 28 2015 03:54 phil.ipp wrote: dont be so dramatic, nothing will happen this is a chance for greece to escape the system, default, fuck the debt, start new. im looking forward to it. Greece will look like a 3rd world country for a while though.But with the recent happening in the arabic countries, and the obviously incoming drop in cost of life in Greece, Tourism will sore tenfold and help Greece starting anew. The rest of Europe will get the usual raise in price and lost of buying power overall but it won't change that much for common people I think. | ||
|
Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On June 28 2015 02:54 Faust852 wrote: They wanted the butter, the butter money and the creamer's daughter. They tried too hard and now they burnt their wings. Now everyone will suffer, europeans and greek people. The rest of Europe is going to be just fine - in fact a fair amount of money can probably made off a Greek default. | ||
|
Ankalagon
Greece30 Posts
On June 28 2015 03:53 Banaora wrote: I don't understand why Tsipras did not accept the creditors proposal. It might have cost him the office There is speculation (and only speculation at this point) that forces within Syriza strong-armed Tsipras into rejecting the proposal - Syriza is essentially a coalition of left-wing political groups, some of them more hardcore than others. There was talk that the proposal could be accepted and be voted into law succesfully with participation from a limited number of Syriza MPs along with opposition MPs. Essentially, to avoid a schism of the party (as well as to secure his own position as party leader), he brought the country to this position. | ||
|
Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
You want Greeks to elect someone more competent than the current clowns. Well, all the other guys have already been in power. ND and PASOK for some 40 years combined that directly led to Greece being a laughingstock country, Syriza and right wing ANEL now. What's left currently is the communists and the nazis (I don't count To Potami because they are basically new oligarch proxies now that PASOK has disintegrated). There's no other party in the current parliament. It's not a complex thought or anything... On June 28 2015 04:31 Ghostcom wrote: The rest of Europe is going to be just fine - in fact a fair amount of money can probably made off a Greek default. Complacency is never good, there is a whole lot of anger building up around Europe for a variety of reasons - austerity and immigration among them. Solidarity didn't happen for either Italy or Greece in the matter of refugees. When people talk about Europe fragmenting they don't mean profits aren't going to be made. | ||
|
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
Or, find some people in Greece outside the current parties, make a new party with competent people. | ||
|
phantomlancer23
733 Posts
Free citizens decides for their own future but slaves are expendables and their execution is decided by antidemocratical institutions and their native traitors.So free citizens or the mass extermination of Greek people in favor of the debt will be continued. There is no way Greek people will vote YES.National currency and onesided debt erasure is the only option by this goverment or the next one.But the real catharsis will come when every traitor will be hunged at the sintagma square. | ||
|
Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
This is not a Greece exclusive either. | ||
|
accela
Greece314 Posts
On June 28 2015 04:58 zlefin wrote: Taguchi, there were other options; just because all the people in your government are apparently clowns doesn't mean there aren't options. You could bring in competent people from outside Greece. Hence my point about choosing incompetent people still stands. Or, find some people in Greece outside the current parties, make a new party with competent people. Oh that sounds a lot like... uhm let's see.. the personnel from EU, the IMF and the ECB that commands Greece since 2009. They were indeed of great value, especially IMF's Poul Thomsen who recently even got promoted. Great success, lots of blood and tears as usually happens with IMF. | ||
|
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
accela -> from what I've heard you're spouting nonsense, and the necessary changes were actually ignored by the greek government. So I'm just disregarding your absurd claims; it sounds like typical unjustified victimization attitude, rather than dealing with the very real problems Greece has. Especially since you make the laughably absurd claim that those people controlled Greece. | ||
|
Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On June 28 2015 05:05 phantomlancer23 wrote: The referendum is not about creditors or greeks proposal, the real meaning is to be free citizens or slaves. Free citizens decides for their own future but slaves are expendables and their execution is decided by antidemocratical institutions and their native traitors.So free citizens or the mass extermination of Greek people in favor of the debt will be continued. There is no way Greek people will vote YES.National currency and onesided debt erasure is the only option by this goverment or the next one.But the real catharsis will come when every traitor will be hunged at the sintagma square. The problem is not the referendum, the problem is the timing of the referendum. The greek government could have held a referendum the last 4 months, but now they just try to use it as a way to expose the other eurogroup members even more. I have no idea why other eurogroup members would agree to that after 10+ missed earlier deadlines. | ||
|
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
| ||
|
accela
Greece314 Posts
On June 28 2015 05:14 zlefin wrote: I was making a comment on the current situation. I'm aware it's not a greek exclusive thing; but it's still the case that Greece chose lousy leaders, and the extra lousy current guys who are laughable. And you get what you choose. It's also not THAT hard to find competent people. accela -> from what I've heard you're spouting nonsense, and the necessary changes were actually ignored by the greek government. So I'm just disregarding your absurd claims; it sounds like typical unjustified victimization attitude, rather than dealing with the very real problems Greece has. You apparently are not aware of how those programs working and what your hear (i guess from your media) is the common political populism. The bailout programs are made out of smaller loans that are given after assessments every 4 months IIRC. If the government does not comply with the "reforms" then there's no money. But even during those periods most if not all the laws that are to be introduced are being sent for a review. There were multiple times that draft of laws were simply denied by the EU/IMF/ECB before they even get to the parliament for a preliminary vote. Now if i'm correct that past few years Greece was always getting the approval through those reviews, especially the last government were bragging that they were more austere than EU/IMF so getting the loans was a piece of cake for them ...and a lot of pain for the people. | ||
|
Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
On June 28 2015 05:31 Derez wrote: The problem is not the referendum, the problem is the timing of the referendum. The greek government could have held a referendum the last 4 months, but now they just try to use it as a way to expose the other eurogroup members even more. I have no idea why other eurogroup members would agree to that after 10+ missed earlier deadlines. Desire to keep the currency bloc intact? A YES result is not that far-fetched, after all. But regime change is also required now. The 'D' word goes somewhere in here... don't mean Djisselbloem! On June 28 2015 05:39 Nyxisto wrote: I think the problem is the huge disparity because what the Greek government says and what it actually does. After 5 years into this crisis the shipping sector is still not paying taxes. I mean Greece now has a left-wing government, so at least going after big business tax evaders ought to be possible. No, sorry, this line appears both in the Greek proposal and the creditor proposal in the documents I linked to last page: 'increase the rate of the tonnage tax and phase out special tax treatments of the shipping industry. ' Fun game! Spot the countries that didn't commit austerity seppukku! (or, well, not as much as others) : + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8N0ldPIQAI8Y4R.jpg:large) | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22085 Posts
On June 28 2015 05:41 accela wrote: You apparently are not aware of how those programs working and what your hear (i guess from your media) is the common political populism. The bailout programs are made out of smaller loans that are given after assessments every 4 months IIRC. If the government does not comply with the "reforms" then there's no money. But even during those periods most if not all the laws that are to be introduced are being sent for a review. There were multiple times that draft of laws were simply denied by the EU/IMF/ECB before they even get to the parliament for a preliminary vote. Now if i'm correct that past few years Greece was always getting the approval through those reviews, especially the last government were bragging that they were more austere than EU/IMF so getting the loans was a piece of cake for them ...and a lot of pain for the people. Gee maybe the drafts were denied because they did not match commitments made as part of the bailout? But no, you think the IMF/ECB would rather spite Greece for lolz rather then think maybe your government is the one in the wrong. | ||
|
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On June 28 2015 05:41 Taguchi wrote: No, sorry, this line appears both in the Greek proposal and the creditor proposal in the documents I linked to last page: 'increase the rate of the tonnage tax and phase out special tax treatments of the shipping industry. ' Fun game! Spot the countries that didn't commit austerity seppukku! (or, well, not as much as others) Then why are they not simply accepting the creditor proposal? Most of the stuff doesn't seem to be outrageous. Also Ireland committed a lot of austerity seppukku and they seem to be doing somewhat okay at least. Spain and Portugal, too. Greece seems to have isolated itself right now. | ||
|
accela
Greece314 Posts
On June 28 2015 05:49 Gorsameth wrote: Gee maybe the drafts were denied because they did not match commitments made as part of the bailout? But no, you think the IMF/ECB would rather spite Greece for lolz rather then think maybe your government is the one in the wrong. Well the previous far right wing government of "New Democracy" was the best puppet institutions could get but sometimes they had, you know, sparkles of (in)sanity. Nothing major but enough to get some gentle ear pulling from EU/IMF. For example they tried to introduce a law to deal with the "red" loans (a major problem for the banking sector). They dictated by the IMF/EU to immediately stop and ofc they did. But in general they were very obedient. | ||
| ||
