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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On September 03 2019 21:05 Nyxisto wrote: Hyperbole serves no-one who wants a legitimate discussion. Big J makes valid points, and perhaps so do you.can we have a single discussion about any topic with you that doesn't descend into "the government stepped on my pinky toe, fascism!" jesus christ | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
Just imagine what the Nazis would've done with the information derivable from social networks earlier last century. At the same time, anonymity does provoke unacceptable behaviour due to individuals feeling they can just get away with it Scot free. Unless there is strict moderation akin to here on LD/TL the discourse deteriorates incredibly fast. Online bullying is a thing. Although that's not entirely done by anonymous people that don't know their victim. Most proposals of a single online identity that I'm aware of here in Germany (like 3 from conservatives) have, as far as I'm concerned, been made with more or less a personal agenda of controlling people of differing opinions / protesters in mind. I do think it's a bit hyperbolic to call fascism on that but on the other hand too little oversight is bad for the online populace imo | ||
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Simberto
Germany12062 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 03 2019 21:05 Nyxisto wrote: having an identity when speaking publicly is the basis of civic life and democracy. Nobody lets you participate in a democratic party or a debate in a skimask. Any community that wants to function needs a mechanism to punish bad actors that try to abuse the system. If there is no cost to being a troll discourse is impossible. That's the basis of a free and liberal society. Demanding to be anonymous in a social network isn't freedom, it's anti-social and it clearly has broken down public politics by making it impossible from keeping bad faith actors out of discussions whose only goal is to steer debate where they want. That's not tenable any longer. You make a valid point, but you argue under the assumption that the whole nation state should function as this single community that punishes bad actors. That is the point I deny. I don't want the government to supervise me in this very forum. If TL.net thinks it had enough moderation and I believe the community works well enough for me to participate, then why do you believe you have to bring the government in? The nation is not one of those communities that I want to participate in, never wanted to and probably never will. If people can't separate the idea of a state of law from the idea of a national society then I don't want that state to keep track of everything I do. Because people have been imprisoned by states for centuries and centuries for those thoughts I put forward here. And I am sorry to refer to fascism once again, but the AfD just made over 25% in Eastern German countries with a candidate that wants to exile German Green politicians. Do they first have to do that before I am allowed to be frightened for being outspoken in favor of Green ideas? | ||
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sharkie
Austria18770 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 04 2019 00:21 sharkie wrote: Good news for you, Big J! Austria isnt a country that forces its citizens to stay in it. You can leave anytime! The actual good news is that physical laws don't force me to leave, regardless what the land I live on is considered by you. Let me tell you a secret: In some places in Austria people smoke weed! Crazy, isn't it? The Austrian law says you can't but it turns out you actually can if there is no social majority around you that believes in this law. So regardless of what nationalists and other proponents of natural law theories believe whose argumentative horizon doesn't make it past "this isn't right", any law is a social construct and can thus be changed plainly based on the social framework you live in. I personally live in a social framework of liberals, socialists, a few conservative-liberals and many of them are migrants of some sort who care much more about the next mobile phone generation than the location of their birth. So noone gives a damn about "the nation". In my society people care about a thousand other things and I really don't want some political party to consider me an extremist for this completely normal behaviour. Or another political party that teaches our children "patriotism" in school or pays our daughters to stay at home to bear kids for the nation instead of working. Patriotism doesn't pay your bills. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18770 Posts
 User was warned for this post. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
This isn't only in the interest of the state when it comes to fighting propaganda, it also protects people. There were a lot of incidents recently of women abuse groups on facebook who had been infiltrated by stalkers or people who tried to catfish. That's an absolute disaster for people's safety and I think it's pretty clear that there needs to be some regulation. There's also pretty trivial things like charging a euro or whatever upfront to put a economic cost on large botnets or mass fake account creation. I'm pretty sure everyone can come up with a dozen ideas that are relatively unintrusive but stop the worst offenders. The only reason it doesn't happen is because Facebook or Twitter are afraid of seeing their inflated numbers drop | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On September 04 2019 01:40 sharkie wrote: But at least those patriotd pay part of their bills unlike your socialframework who live on either by their conservative's parents money or by the state's money. Thats why no one ever takes you seriously. Because you live "freely" on other people's money You as judgemental about people who live on other people's work as well? | ||
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sharkie
Austria18770 Posts
On September 04 2019 01:49 Artisreal wrote: You as judgemental about people who live on other people's work as well? of course | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 04 2019 01:40 sharkie wrote: But at least those patriotd pay part of their bills unlike your socialframework who live on either by their conservative's parents money or by the state's money. Thats why no one ever takes you seriously. Because you live "freely" on other people's money I am not sure what's wrong with working in IT start-ups, in IT in the car industry, in pharma companies, as teachers, in a governmental institution or banking. Or doing your PhD while supporting yourself. But I guess I will tell my friends to stop doing that and... do what instead? But hey, because we prefer anti-national institutions like the EU or the UN over conservative party ruled states we must all be poor and lazy. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18770 Posts
User was warned for this post. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 04 2019 06:07 sharkie wrote: Calling the EU anti-national proves your ignorance, thanks Big J. Maybe you should have gone to school for education instead of striking to get free off days Sweetie I finished school long before FFF with excellent grades and I have an MSc in mathematics and a job that pays enough taxes to provide for a socially dependent person. What bothers me is that this tax money is used instead to pay people like myself back their taxes if they breed kids "for the fatherland". For the matter of EU. Read the Maastricht Treaty. In English you will find the words "ever closer union" in Article 1. Even without the knowledge of Cauchy-series, convergence, complete spaces and the logical nature of laws you should be able to figure out what that means in the longrun for the differences between European nation states. They should be eliminated - by the words of the founding treaty of the EU. That is the very purpose of the EU. It might not be the status quo yet, but it is the law that the union must get closer. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9254 Posts
On September 04 2019 06:07 sharkie wrote: Calling the EU anti-national proves your ignorance, thanks Big J. Maybe you should have gone to school for education instead of striking to get free off days If you do some googling around you'll find that empathy is a better predictor of political leaning than income or education. And yet Big J hasn't snarkily dismissed you as a psycho. Why not show the same basic courtesy? | ||
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Simberto
Germany12062 Posts
Just on this page: "Maybe you should have gone to school for education instead of striking to get free off days" "But at least those patriotd pay part of their bills unlike your socialframework who live on either by their conservative's parents money or by the state's money." "Because you live "freely" on other people's money" Those are a lot of assumptions to make about someone you know nothing about but their political opinions. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4769 Posts
On September 03 2019 22:52 Simberto wrote: There are a lot of good reasons for anonymity. Imagine you are a gay youth in some backwater village of saxony which votes 70% AfD. Or just someone that believes in democracy. If you are anonymous, you can talk about the shit that happens in your village online. If you cannot be anonymous, you cannot say anything, because nazi assholes will beat you up. It works both ways. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18770 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6326 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
What's the scenario for the other way? A village of gay youths beating up a lone nazi? The weakness of socially liberal societies like the ones we live in is that they openly allow dissent even from minority views, even if that view is harmful to democracy and liberties themselves. Which is why in the first place were were discussing the removal of anonymity from facebook and other media where foreign funded anonymous profiles are able to push said undemocratic and authoritarian views. | ||
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