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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On July 22 2019 19:15 TheDwf wrote:
@BigJ or any Austrian people: any update on the Ibiza scandal and its consequences?
Not many new things to tell you. There are going to be elections on the 29th September which Sebatian Kurz and his conservative ÖVP party are going to win in a landslide. According to current polling the possible (non-exotic) coalitions for a government will be:
ÖVP-FPÖ
ÖVP-SPÖ
ÖVP-Greens-Neos
Almost possible:
ÖVP-Greens
ÖVP - conservatives
SPÖ - social-democrats
FPÖ - far-right
Greens - Greens
Neos - Neoliberal, liberal-conservatives
Polls:
![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Austrian_Opinion_Polling%2C_30_Day_Moving_Average%2C_2017-2019.png)
For the moment we have a very quiet expert government that consists mainly of conservative bureaucrats under the leadership of chancellor Bierlein, our first female chancellor.
The biggest topics at the moment are probably climate change and corruption. In the aftermath of the Ibiza scandal the executive is looking into quite some stuff concerning illegal party financing, which feels like 75% is shady stuff about the ÖVP and the other stuff mostly about the SPÖ. But I don't believe anything fruitful will come from this, except that SPÖ-FPÖ-PseudoGreens have created some harsh laws regarding big donations towards parties, which mainly hits the conservatives and neoliberals.
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Totally unrelated to the Ibiza scandal the police has raided former FPOe leader Strache's home and those of other FPOe functionaries. This time it is about bribery.
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So the Italian PM just resigned now everybody is wondering what is next. How can a politician that isn't even affiliated with either party hold a senior position in the controlling party? Salvini must have polls numbers showing a snap election in which he is poised to gain more seats? And why on earth would a left leaning party form a coalition with his far right one?
ROME (Reuters) - Italy’s prime minister announced his resignation on Tuesday as he made a blistering attack on his own interior minister, Matteo Salvini, accusing him of sinking the ruling coalition and endangering the economy for personal and political gain.
Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, addressing parliament after it was recalled from its summer recess to decide the future of the 14-month-old government, accused League party chief Salvini of seeking to cash in on his rising popularity.
“(Salvini) has shown that he is following his own interests and those of his party,” Conte told a packed Senate, a stony-faced Salvini sitting by his side. “His decisions pose serious risks for this country.”
He described the actions of Salvini, who declared the coalition unworkable 12 days ago and called for snap elections, as recklessness “liable to tip the country into a spiral of political uncertainty and financial instability”.
Conte, who belongs to neither of the coalition’s two parties, said he would hand in his resignation later in the day, allowing the head of state to start formal consultations with parties to see if a new coalition can be formed.
Failing that, President Sergio Mattarella would have to dissolve parliament, 3-1/2 years ahead of schedule, a move that could trigger elections as early as the autumn.
Source
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On August 21 2019 03:58 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:So the Italian PM just resigned now everybody is wondering what is next. How can a politician that isn't even affiliated with either party hold a senior position in the controlling party? Salvini must have polls numbers showing a snap election in which he is poised to gain more seats? And why on earth would a left leaning party form a coalition with his far right one? Show nested quote +ROME (Reuters) - Italy’s prime minister announced his resignation on Tuesday as he made a blistering attack on his own interior minister, Matteo Salvini, accusing him of sinking the ruling coalition and endangering the economy for personal and political gain.
Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, addressing parliament after it was recalled from its summer recess to decide the future of the 14-month-old government, accused League party chief Salvini of seeking to cash in on his rising popularity.
“(Salvini) has shown that he is following his own interests and those of his party,” Conte told a packed Senate, a stony-faced Salvini sitting by his side. “His decisions pose serious risks for this country.”
He described the actions of Salvini, who declared the coalition unworkable 12 days ago and called for snap elections, as recklessness “liable to tip the country into a spiral of political uncertainty and financial instability”.
Conte, who belongs to neither of the coalition’s two parties, said he would hand in his resignation later in the day, allowing the head of state to start formal consultations with parties to see if a new coalition can be formed.
Failing that, President Sergio Mattarella would have to dissolve parliament, 3-1/2 years ahead of schedule, a move that could trigger elections as early as the autumn. Source
What do you mean? Are you confused about why Conte was PM? Attracting "outside talent" is somewhat usual in European Cabinets. Because they are mostly coalition governments, high posts need to have the trust of both parties. With how little trust there is between Lega and M5S, it's not too surprising they settled on giving the PM position to a neutral outsider. It didn't work, but they tried.
That said, M5S have shown themselves to be the total clown fiesta everybody expected. And Lega really profited. It's quite scary to think that Berlusconi might be Italy's best hope of stopping a Lega landslide if snap elections are called.
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Today we "celebrate" the invasion of Czechoslovakia by Warsaw Pact forces in 1968, which was the beginning of a 21- year long occupation by Soviet troops (the other countries withdrew), while the country was technically run by a puppet communist government - with blatant knowledge that any misbehaviour would be swiftly ended by force, as the troops were stationed at many places in the country.
This is old news, but what is new is the massive amount of "people" doubting this version of history and spreading "alternative realities" online through every outlet imaginable. Usually, when you investigate previous activity, it's new accounts or older ones but with strictly generic contents besides pro-russian agenda. Meanwhile in Russia, kids are taught at school that this invasion was a helping hand needed to stop imperialist-backed putch.
The timeline is indeed a rather grim these days.
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On August 21 2019 19:22 opisska wrote:
Today we "celebrate" the invasion of Czechoslovakia by Warsaw Pact forces in 1968, which was the beginning of a 21- year long occupation by Soviet troops (the other countries withdrew), while the country was technically run by a puppet communist government - with blatant knowledge that any misbehaviour would be swiftly ended by force, as the troops were stationed at many places in the country.
This is old news, but what is new is the massive amount of "people" doubting this version of history and spreading "alternative realities" online through every outlet imaginable. Usually, when you investigate previous activity, it's new accounts or older ones but with strictly generic contents besides pro-russian agenda. Meanwhile in Russia, kids are taught at school that this invasion was a helping hand needed to stop imperialist-backed putch.
The timeline is indeed a rather grim these days.
The way to solve this is doing something similar to South Korea has for games. You use your personal, real life, ID to create an account. Without it you cannot make an account. Thus any spam bots would need to steal real IDs that pass the government login portal, which people sooner or later tend to catch and is illegal as hell and has people up in arms about it.
Basically removing the free internet as we are used to it. Of course sites located in other countries don't need this, just as the EU is free to ban those sites. So any big social network site needs to do it or is denied service to all EU citizens by being added to the current child pornography block list under another category.
As I get older I am less against that. When younger I would have been much more against it. Think it can likely have popular support within 20 years since many discuss the generation growing into adulthood now as being less about privacy.
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On August 22 2019 03:57 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:22 opisska wrote:
Today we "celebrate" the invasion of Czechoslovakia by Warsaw Pact forces in 1968, which was the beginning of a 21- year long occupation by Soviet troops (the other countries withdrew), while the country was technically run by a puppet communist government - with blatant knowledge that any misbehaviour would be swiftly ended by force, as the troops were stationed at many places in the country.
This is old news, but what is new is the massive amount of "people" doubting this version of history and spreading "alternative realities" online through every outlet imaginable. Usually, when you investigate previous activity, it's new accounts or older ones but with strictly generic contents besides pro-russian agenda. Meanwhile in Russia, kids are taught at school that this invasion was a helping hand needed to stop imperialist-backed putch.
The timeline is indeed a rather grim these days. The way to solve this is doing something similar to South Korea has for games. You use your personal, real life, ID to create an account. Without it you cannot make an account. Thus any spam bots would need to steal real IDs that pass the government login portal, which people sooner or later tend to catch and is illegal as hell and has people up in arms about it. Basically removing the free internet as we are used to it. Of course sites located in other countries don't need this, just as the EU is free to ban those sites. So any big social network site needs to do it or is denied service to all EU citizens by being added to the current child pornography block list under another category. As I get older I am less against that. When younger I would have been much more against it. Think it can likely have popular support within 20 years since many discuss the generation growing into adulthood now as being less about privacy.
So the solution to foreign conservative parties spreading Fake News is self-censorship and giving the national conservative parties all your data and thus easily linkable access to each and every thought you post online.
Sounds like fascism to me, but hey, I guess Hitler didn't have those tools so it is actually worse.
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On August 22 2019 03:57 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 19:22 opisska wrote:
Today we "celebrate" the invasion of Czechoslovakia by Warsaw Pact forces in 1968, which was the beginning of a 21- year long occupation by Soviet troops (the other countries withdrew), while the country was technically run by a puppet communist government - with blatant knowledge that any misbehaviour would be swiftly ended by force, as the troops were stationed at many places in the country.
This is old news, but what is new is the massive amount of "people" doubting this version of history and spreading "alternative realities" online through every outlet imaginable. Usually, when you investigate previous activity, it's new accounts or older ones but with strictly generic contents besides pro-russian agenda. Meanwhile in Russia, kids are taught at school that this invasion was a helping hand needed to stop imperialist-backed putch.
The timeline is indeed a rather grim these days. The way to solve this is doing something similar to South Korea has for games. You use your personal, real life, ID to create an account. Without it you cannot make an account. Thus any spam bots would need to steal real IDs that pass the government login portal, which people sooner or later tend to catch and is illegal as hell and has people up in arms about it. Basically removing the free internet as we are used to it. Of course sites located in other countries don't need this, just as the EU is free to ban those sites. So any big social network site needs to do it or is denied service to all EU citizens by being added to the current child pornography block list under another category. As I get older I am less against that. When younger I would have been much more against it. Think it can likely have popular support within 20 years since many discuss the generation growing into adulthood now as being less about privacy.
I haven't warmed up to it at all, seems like a bigger inconvenience than having to ignore the comment sections of news sites. Hell, I don't even use my primary email to make accounts on websites cause of all the spam and breaches that come with that.
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This is an interesting question. I would like EU citizens to be as free as possible in their use of the internet, because it is a good thing that there is this platform that makes it relatively hard for forces with totalitarian tendencies to block their political views, especially due to the multiple countries involved and the ease to act across borders, yet it would be nice to make it hard for our enemies outside of the EU to do so. But once those can employ EU citizens to do their bidding, what do we do? I personally believe that we should act more on this link - the connection of outside actors to internal entities and persons - than regulate the expression on the internet itself. I mean I would guess that most of the people who are being abused by Russia are doing it simply for the money, so it would suffice to sever the flow of that.
But this goes actually much deeper into the hypocrisy of the western world. We basically know that Russia is our enemy and some people are even starting to recognize that China may not be very friendly as well, yet we happily trade with both of them day and night. The current state of international politics is a bigger farce than pre-Kespa SC2 competition and I am not sure that preferring short-term business gains against strategical positioning is going to do us much good in the long run.
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I resent the comparison that pre-Kespa SC2 competition was a farce.
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On August 22 2019 06:56 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I resent the comparison that pre-Kespa SC2 competition was a farce.
C'mon, I found myself typing that something is a farce, how could I have resisted doing this afterwards? 
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I agree though about the general gist if what you have written. For the most part, under the guise of realpolitik, the "western world" seem to be operating under the bizarre assumption that other countries are not, prefering to see that Russia and China are acting under some sort of idealogical goal and would be satisfied once reaching it.
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On August 22 2019 04:07 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 03:57 Yurie wrote:On August 21 2019 19:22 opisska wrote:
Today we "celebrate" the invasion of Czechoslovakia by Warsaw Pact forces in 1968, which was the beginning of a 21- year long occupation by Soviet troops (the other countries withdrew), while the country was technically run by a puppet communist government - with blatant knowledge that any misbehaviour would be swiftly ended by force, as the troops were stationed at many places in the country.
This is old news, but what is new is the massive amount of "people" doubting this version of history and spreading "alternative realities" online through every outlet imaginable. Usually, when you investigate previous activity, it's new accounts or older ones but with strictly generic contents besides pro-russian agenda. Meanwhile in Russia, kids are taught at school that this invasion was a helping hand needed to stop imperialist-backed putch.
The timeline is indeed a rather grim these days. The way to solve this is doing something similar to South Korea has for games. You use your personal, real life, ID to create an account. Without it you cannot make an account. Thus any spam bots would need to steal real IDs that pass the government login portal, which people sooner or later tend to catch and is illegal as hell and has people up in arms about it. Basically removing the free internet as we are used to it. Of course sites located in other countries don't need this, just as the EU is free to ban those sites. So any big social network site needs to do it or is denied service to all EU citizens by being added to the current child pornography block list under another category. As I get older I am less against that. When younger I would have been much more against it. Think it can likely have popular support within 20 years since many discuss the generation growing into adulthood now as being less about privacy. So the solution to foreign conservative parties spreading Fake News is self-censorship and giving the national conservative parties all your data and thus easily linkable access to each and every thought you post online. Sounds like fascism to me, but hey, I guess Hitler didn't have those tools so it is actually worse.
you have to prove your identity when you enter a bar or act as a publc speaker at an event, not really sure how proving your identity on a digital platform suddenly is fascism. If you want to contain fakenews, by definition you need censorship and authentification. The way people are held responsible for what they publish is identity. Complete anonymity removes any sort of stake from the system.
And also, social networks are designed to make your personal information public anyway, that's literally why people use them. It's not like people can't publicly see who you are when you make a facebook account. Actually backing that up with some sort of ID doesn't reveal more of your data, but it would stop bot armies or fake accounts.
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Social networks can demand real identification,but the moment they do that their active user base will decimate and their income from advertisements and selling data will crumble. I don't think it will happen in the next 10 years.
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the number/amount of people/entities you need to prove your identity matters; plus, when you prove your id in a bar, it's not in a written form.
(and that's not even touching on the amount of info required)
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On August 29 2019 09:25 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 04:07 Big J wrote:On August 22 2019 03:57 Yurie wrote:On August 21 2019 19:22 opisska wrote:
Today we "celebrate" the invasion of Czechoslovakia by Warsaw Pact forces in 1968, which was the beginning of a 21- year long occupation by Soviet troops (the other countries withdrew), while the country was technically run by a puppet communist government - with blatant knowledge that any misbehaviour would be swiftly ended by force, as the troops were stationed at many places in the country.
This is old news, but what is new is the massive amount of "people" doubting this version of history and spreading "alternative realities" online through every outlet imaginable. Usually, when you investigate previous activity, it's new accounts or older ones but with strictly generic contents besides pro-russian agenda. Meanwhile in Russia, kids are taught at school that this invasion was a helping hand needed to stop imperialist-backed putch.
The timeline is indeed a rather grim these days. The way to solve this is doing something similar to South Korea has for games. You use your personal, real life, ID to create an account. Without it you cannot make an account. Thus any spam bots would need to steal real IDs that pass the government login portal, which people sooner or later tend to catch and is illegal as hell and has people up in arms about it. Basically removing the free internet as we are used to it. Of course sites located in other countries don't need this, just as the EU is free to ban those sites. So any big social network site needs to do it or is denied service to all EU citizens by being added to the current child pornography block list under another category. As I get older I am less against that. When younger I would have been much more against it. Think it can likely have popular support within 20 years since many discuss the generation growing into adulthood now as being less about privacy. So the solution to foreign conservative parties spreading Fake News is self-censorship and giving the national conservative parties all your data and thus easily linkable access to each and every thought you post online. Sounds like fascism to me, but hey, I guess Hitler didn't have those tools so it is actually worse. you have to prove your identity when you enter a bar or act as a publc speaker at an event, not really sure how proving your identity on a digital platform suddenly is fascism. If you want to contain fakenews, by definition you need censorship and authentification. The way people are held responsible for what they publish is identity. Complete anonymity removes any sort of stake from the system. And also, social networks are designed to make your personal information public anyway, that's literally why people use them. It's not like people can't publicly see who you are when you make a facebook account. Actually backing that up with some sort of ID doesn't reveal more of your data, but it would stop bot armies or fake accounts.
I think it has been years since I had to prove my identity at a bar and for presentations and meetings it varies. Im state/EU enivroments mostly yes, with private companies mostly no.
You know why? They choose whether you need to identify and how you identify. And regardless of whether they choose to or have to, they don't send the state that information afterwards, which will store it for years.
Of course conservative and neonazi parties would love to have access to the personal data of everyone that is registered in a Marxist forum or even just a liberal newspaper.
Maybe you find it funny that when I was looking for a flat my landlord knew my birthplace at our first meeting, because he apparantly works in a close-to-the-state business that has access to state databanks. I personally found it a bit problematic. But hey, everything is secure in the hands of "the state should be a cheap service provider for enterprises" conservative parties.
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Agree... But that you only mention conservative/Neonazi parties is a bit ridiculous. remember the Stasi? This is an issue with authoritarianism, not between left/right.
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On August 29 2019 20:34 Velr wrote:
Agree... But that you only mention conservative/Neonazi parties is a bit ridiculous. remember the Stasi? This is an issue with authoritarianism, not between left/right.
Agreed, but I don't divide in "left/right" so I don't see the point in pretending to.
For political issues I believe in freedom based arguments and non-freedom based arguments.
Conservativism/Fascism/Bolshevism/GDP-maximizism are almost always the latter, Marxism/Liberalism/Capitalism/Anarchism mostly about the former.
And in that categorization it is pretty much only an issue of the non-freedom based ideologies.
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can we have a single discussion about any topic with you that doesn't descend into "the government stepped on my pinky toe, fascism!" jesus christ
having an identity when speaking publicly is the basis of civic life and democracy. Nobody lets you participate in a democratic party or a debate in a skimask. Any community that wants to function needs a mechanism to punish bad actors that try to abuse the system. If there is no cost to being a troll discourse is impossible. That's the basis of a free and liberal society.
Demanding to be anonymous in a social network isn't freedom, it's anti-social and it clearly has broken down public politics by making it impossible from keeping bad faith actors out of discussions whose only goal is to steer debate where they want. That's not tenable any longer.
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EPT
