EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1239
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24156 Posts
On April 16 2019 22:25 Plansix wrote: If you define the bourgeoisie as the most privileged upper class people of that given era, then yes. It gets weird when we get to time periods that prior to the renaissance, because the economic engine that defined the wealthy bourgeoisie is just starting get going. I was thinking "class who own most of society's wealth and means of production." which has applicability outside of capitalism and more textual marxist interpretations, to be clear about my meaning. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 16 2019 22:28 GreenHorizons wrote: I was thinking "class who own most of society's wealth and means of production." which has applicability outside of capitalism and more textual marxist interpretations, to be clear about my meaning. I assumed as much. The concept of the means of production is a post industrial revolution reality of how economics functioned after that. “Production” was more dispersed prior to that, as is the power of “government” due to limitations of technology. Also, there were fewer people too. Not to say I don't understand what you mean by bourgeoisie, but the history student in me has a hard time fitting that circle into the square hole. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24156 Posts
On April 16 2019 22:38 Plansix wrote: I assumed as much. The concept of the means of production is a post industrial revolution reality of how economics functioned after that. “Production” was more dispersed prior to that, as is the power of “government” due to limitations of technology. Also, there were fewer people too. Not to say I don't understand what you mean by bourgeoisie, but the history student in me has a hard time fitting that circle into the square hole. + Show Spoiler + I'm hoping people make similar connection to myself that I was trying to highlight from the Pharaohs, to the Yellow river, to Greece, Rome and eventually industrial/capitalist Europe, US etc... They were all centralized (at least for their eras) civilizations with essentially the same phenomena, though clearly different iterations and peculiarities. One consistency being large monuments/projects funded by a few people with control over massive amounts of human capital most frequently with a spiritual and bargaining feature predicated on extracting the wealth from the people they are 'gifting' it back to. I think you're right that I should have used "oppressors" instead to be more readily clear. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
The reality is that the money is redirected from other investments to this one, with all its implications on prices. Rich people's money that is taken from skycastles like the stock markets and directed into the real economy is for the most part a curse for wage-dependent people, not a blessing. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14162 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 17 2019 04:55 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Sounds like Macron is taking a figleaf out of Trumps' book. Who needs experts? In fact, why not make it 5 months? I think he should re-conjure the whole edifice out of thin air thanks to the sheer force of his will, that's how Jupiter would do | ||
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Sent.
Poland9324 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 17 2019 05:04 Sent. wrote: Assuming money isn't going to be a problem, why does the reconstruction of the wooden parts have to take 15 or more years? Because they will need to recreate it to look like the old structure, which not only means building something, but also making it fit in with the rest of the structure. While also assure the new materials do not damage the older materials in the building. | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
Edit: also what p6 said :D | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Basically, Macron is full of shit. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11941 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
 Honestly speeaking I suppose most of it will simply be the research and the nature of building something in a tight constrained area without damaging the surrounding walls. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 17 2019 05:19 Plansix wrote: I may have a passing hobby of reading and watching documentaries about art restoration. It is a fascinating profession filled with the most careful, meticulous humans humanity could produce. And they all love art and the preservation of art for future generations, to an unreasonable degree that can only be admired. There is no amount of government power or money that could make the people who will be involved with restoring ND rush the project. Because they will rebuild it to last 200 years, while also meticulous documenting the process so it can be cared for long after all the conservators who worked on it pass away. Basically, Macron is full of shit. Couldn't you just hire more of them? As long as you can pay enough, use tax advantages to make the job attractive it is really just a question of the existance of a specialized workforce, right? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France8150 Posts
On April 16 2019 22:38 Plansix wrote: I assumed as much. The concept of the means of production is a post industrial revolution reality of how economics functioned after that. “Production” was more dispersed prior to that, as is the power of “government” due to limitations of technology. Also, there were fewer people too. Not to say I don't understand what you mean by bourgeoisie, but the history student in me has a hard time fitting that circle into the square hole. France had a flourishing bourgeoisie in the middle age, although certainly not as powerful as later on in history. Some merchants for example were exceptionally rich and powerful, and many made history. Look for example Jacques Coeur, in his time the richest frenchman that had ever lived. From wikipedia: At this point, the great trader's glory was at its height. He had represented France in three embassies, and had supplied the sinews of the war which had ousted the English from Normandy. He was invested with various offices of state, and possessed the most colossal fortune that had ever been amassed by a private Frenchman. The sea was covered with his ships; he had 300 managers in his employ, and business houses in all the chief cities of France. He had built houses and chapels, and had founded colleges in Paris, Montpellier and Bourges. The house in Bourges was exceptionally magnificent and remains today one of the finest monuments of the Middle Ages in France. He also built there the sacristy of the cathedral and a sepulchral chapel for his family. His brother Nicholas Cœur was made Bishop of Lyon, his sister married Jean Bochetel, the King's secretary, his daughter married the son of the Viscount of Bourges, and his son Jean Cœur became Archbishop of Bourges. But Cœur's huge monopoly caused his ruin. Dealing in everything: money and arms, furs and jewels, brocades and wool, a broker, a banker, a farmer, he had absorbed the trade of the country, and merchants complained they could make no profit because of him. He had lent money to needy courtiers, to members of the royal family, and to the King himself, and his debtors, jealous of his wealth, were eager for a chance to cause his downfall The term bourgeois simply means that they inhabited cities (bourg) and were not aristocrats. | ||
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