|
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On April 17 2019 06:41 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2019 05:19 Plansix wrote:
I may have a passing hobby of reading and watching documentaries about art restoration. It is a fascinating profession filled with the most careful, meticulous humans humanity could produce. And they all love art and the preservation of art for future generations, to an unreasonable degree that can only be admired. There is no amount of government power or money that could make the people who will be involved with restoring ND rush the project. Because they will rebuild it to last 200 years, while also meticulous documenting the process so it can be cared for long after all the conservators who worked on it pass away.
Basically, Macron is full of shit. Couldn't you just hire more of them? As long as you can pay enough, use tax advantages to make the job attractive it is really just a question of the existance of a specialized workforce, right?
How many of people do you think exist across the world possess the skill set I just described? How many of them are capable of uprooting themselves for 5 years to live in France? How many of them do you think can speak French with enough skill to be able to communicate on the level necessary to the job? So on and so on.
There are some things you can't just throw money at to solve. There are labor and skill shortages that cannot be made up in the time frame needed. And some projects should just take a long time because everyone should be careful and not rushed, because it fucking matters. If it takes 10 to 15 years, it will just be 10-15 years of history and people working to preserve that history.
|
On April 16 2019 22:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 22:38 Plansix wrote:On April 16 2019 22:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 16 2019 22:25 Plansix wrote:
If you define the bourgeoisie as the most privileged upper class people of that given era, then yes. It gets weird when we get to time periods that prior to the renaissance, because the economic engine that defined the wealthy bourgeoisie is just starting get going. I was thinking "class who own most of society's wealth and means of production." which has applicability outside of capitalism and more textual marxist interpretations, to be clear about my meaning. I assumed as much. The concept of the means of production is a post industrial revolution reality of how economics functioned after that. “Production” was more dispersed prior to that, as is the power of “government” due to limitations of technology. Also, there were fewer people too. Not to say I don't understand what you mean by bourgeoisie, but the history student in me has a hard time fitting that circle into the square hole. + Show Spoiler +I'm hoping people make similar connection to myself that I was trying to highlight from the Pharaohs, to the Yellow river, to Greece, Rome and eventually industrial/capitalist Europe, US etc...
They were all centralized (at least for their eras) civilizations with essentially the same phenomena, though clearly different iterations and peculiarities.
One consistency being large monuments/projects funded by a few people with control over massive amounts of human capital most frequently with a spiritual and bargaining feature predicated on extracting the wealth from the people they are 'gifting' it back to. I think you're right that I should have used "oppressors" instead to be more readily clear.
This kind of judgmental categories is really not very helpful to understand history, unless you insist on erasing all nuances and understanding and divide the world between the good guys and the baddies.
Which, while looking back eight centuries ago is extremely dull and uninteresting.
|
On April 17 2019 06:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2019 06:41 Big J wrote:On April 17 2019 05:19 Plansix wrote:
I may have a passing hobby of reading and watching documentaries about art restoration. It is a fascinating profession filled with the most careful, meticulous humans humanity could produce. And they all love art and the preservation of art for future generations, to an unreasonable degree that can only be admired. There is no amount of government power or money that could make the people who will be involved with restoring ND rush the project. Because they will rebuild it to last 200 years, while also meticulous documenting the process so it can be cared for long after all the conservators who worked on it pass away.
Basically, Macron is full of shit. Couldn't you just hire more of them? As long as you can pay enough, use tax advantages to make the job attractive it is really just a question of the existance of a specialized workforce, right? How many of people do you think exist across the world possess the skill set I just described? How many of them are capable of uprooting themselves for 5 years to live in France? How many of them do you think can speak French with enough skill to be able to communicate on the level necessary to the job? So on and so on. There are some things you can't just throw money at to solve. There are labor and skill shortages that cannot be made up in the time frame needed. And some projects should just take a long time because everyone should be careful and not rushed, because it fucking matters. If it takes 10 to 15 years, it will just be 10-15 years of history and people working to preserve that history.
I remember watching a program a while ago about repairing a certain type of British concrete decoration. There was apparently only one man who did the job, with a backlisting going years, yet no-one seemed to know or care that when he dies no-one will have the knowledge to continue.
|
On April 17 2019 06:50 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 22:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 16 2019 22:38 Plansix wrote:On April 16 2019 22:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 16 2019 22:25 Plansix wrote:
If you define the bourgeoisie as the most privileged upper class people of that given era, then yes. It gets weird when we get to time periods that prior to the renaissance, because the economic engine that defined the wealthy bourgeoisie is just starting get going. I was thinking "class who own most of society's wealth and means of production." which has applicability outside of capitalism and more textual marxist interpretations, to be clear about my meaning. I assumed as much. The concept of the means of production is a post industrial revolution reality of how economics functioned after that. “Production” was more dispersed prior to that, as is the power of “government” due to limitations of technology. Also, there were fewer people too. Not to say I don't understand what you mean by bourgeoisie, but the history student in me has a hard time fitting that circle into the square hole. + Show Spoiler +I'm hoping people make similar connection to myself that I was trying to highlight from the Pharaohs, to the Yellow river, to Greece, Rome and eventually industrial/capitalist Europe, US etc...
They were all centralized (at least for their eras) civilizations with essentially the same phenomena, though clearly different iterations and peculiarities.
One consistency being large monuments/projects funded by a few people with control over massive amounts of human capital most frequently with a spiritual and bargaining feature predicated on extracting the wealth from the people they are 'gifting' it back to. I think you're right that I should have used "oppressors" instead to be more readily clear. This kind of judgmental categories is really not very helpful to understand history, unless you insist on erasing all nuances and understanding and divide the world between the good guys and the baddies. Which, while looking back eight centuries ago is extremely dull and uninteresting.
On the contrary, I find it a remarkably illuminating lens for which to look through history. It's a judgement based in material analysis, it's not a personality judgement.
|
On April 17 2019 06:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2019 06:41 Big J wrote:On April 17 2019 05:19 Plansix wrote:
I may have a passing hobby of reading and watching documentaries about art restoration. It is a fascinating profession filled with the most careful, meticulous humans humanity could produce. And they all love art and the preservation of art for future generations, to an unreasonable degree that can only be admired. There is no amount of government power or money that could make the people who will be involved with restoring ND rush the project. Because they will rebuild it to last 200 years, while also meticulous documenting the process so it can be cared for long after all the conservators who worked on it pass away.
Basically, Macron is full of shit. Couldn't you just hire more of them? As long as you can pay enough, use tax advantages to make the job attractive it is really just a question of the existance of a specialized workforce, right? How many of people do you think exist across the world possess the skill set I just described? How many of them are capable of uprooting themselves for 5 years to live in France? How many of them do you think can speak French with enough skill to be able to communicate on the level necessary to the job? So on and so on. There are some things you can't just throw money at to solve. There are labor and skill shortages that cannot be made up in the time frame needed. And some projects should just take a long time because everyone should be careful and not rushed, because it fucking matters. If it takes 10 to 15 years, it will just be 10-15 years of history and people working to preserve that history.
Yeah, that's the question: How many exist. Since ND is not the only major gothic cathedral in the world or even in France my guess is that doubling or trippling the worker supply should be possible with sufficient amounts of money.
The Vatican has already announced they will be sending specialists to help with the restoration. Speaking French is not really a necessity.
|
I'd argue that speaking French isn't, but having a shared language is. These people are temporarily gonna work in a vacuum, but there still needs to be a larger separation of areas and organization of materials. Working in a large group is also very different to what they normally work like, since most of these projects are 1-3 men projects with basically full autonomy over 2-3x the timespan.
So they still need a project manager who's in charge and this guy definitely needs to be able to communicate with everyone and everyone needs to be able to at least give a list of what they need for the restoration of their part of the church. Which is very different to what I assume they normally work like and due to specific terminology not an easy job for translators.
I'm not saying that it's impossible and it'd be what I'd be going for if i was Macron, but it's anything but simple.
|
Ukraine presidential candidates finally agree debate
Poroshenko originally called the event for last Sunday but Zelensky was a no-show, leading the incumbent to hold a one-man debate next to an empty podium at a Kiev stadium. With Zelensky scoring 72 percent support to Poroshenko's 25, according to the most recent opinion poll, this could be the last chance the incumbent has to boost his flagging campaign. (...) Until he announced his candidacy at the start of this year, 41-year-old Zelensky's political experience was limited to playing Ukraine's president in a popular TV show. (...) Poroshenko, 53, has long pressed his opponent to meet him in a debate and a group of Ukrainian news media this week demanded Zelensky hold a press conference to answer their questions. But the actor has almost completely eschewed traditional media and campaign events, preferring instead to communicate with voters through social media and comedy shows. Critics say the electorate know next to nothing about what the untested Zelensky would do in power. https://www.yahoo.com/news
I don't understand why Zelensky is scoring so high while offering so little. Poroshenko is probably pretty bad, but this guy certainly doesn't look more promising.
|
Greek MPs late Wednesday approved a proposal by a parliamentary committee for Greece to formally seek reparations from Germany for war crimes even as Berlin rejected the demands, claiming that there was no basis for reparations.
The proposal calls on the government to take “all appropriate diplomatic and legal action to demand and fully satisfy all claims of the Greek state.”
http://www.ekathimerini.com/239660/article/ekathimerini/news/greek-mps-vote-to-demand-german-war-reparations
This might become interesting, since the demand is also backed the upcoming conservative government MP's:
Conservative New Democracy leader Kyriakos Mitsotakis said backing the motion was “the minimum level of consensus that democratic political parties can reach on this significant historic unresolved issue.”
The occupation loan provides the strongest basis for Greece’s argument, he said, adding that the country must “build its legal case with strength and a responsible and realistic attitude.” The claim, he said, is “certainly legally open and politically feasible.”
|
On April 18 2019 06:06 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +Greek MPs late Wednesday approved a proposal by a parliamentary committee for Greece to formally seek reparations from Germany for war crimes even as Berlin rejected the demands, claiming that there was no basis for reparations.
The proposal calls on the government to take “all appropriate diplomatic and legal action to demand and fully satisfy all claims of the Greek state.” http://www.ekathimerini.com/239660/article/ekathimerini/news/greek-mps-vote-to-demand-german-war-reparationsThis might become interesting, since the demand is also backed the upcoming conservative government MP's: Show nested quote +Conservative New Democracy leader Kyriakos Mitsotakis said backing the motion was “the minimum level of consensus that democratic political parties can reach on this significant historic unresolved issue.”
The occupation loan provides the strongest basis for Greece’s argument, he said, adding that the country must “build its legal case with strength and a responsible and realistic attitude.” The claim, he said, is “certainly legally open and politically feasible.” Because when you fucked up your country, the obvious course is to blame everyone else.
Germany will tell them they are stupid and ignore them.
The EU court will take it up and discuss it, but I very much doubt they have a snowballs chance in hell.
And populists will keep on doing everything they can that doesn't involve actually fixing the shit the country is in.
|
Shiiit, we must act quickly or the Greeks will get their reparations before us!
The EU court will take it up and discuss it, but I very much doubt they have a snowballs chance in hell.
No EU court will take it because its not in their competence. No other court can take it without Germany consenting to participate in the process first.
|
On April 18 2019 06:11 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2019 06:06 Big J wrote:Greek MPs late Wednesday approved a proposal by a parliamentary committee for Greece to formally seek reparations from Germany for war crimes even as Berlin rejected the demands, claiming that there was no basis for reparations.
The proposal calls on the government to take “all appropriate diplomatic and legal action to demand and fully satisfy all claims of the Greek state.” http://www.ekathimerini.com/239660/article/ekathimerini/news/greek-mps-vote-to-demand-german-war-reparationsThis might become interesting, since the demand is also backed the upcoming conservative government MP's: Conservative New Democracy leader Kyriakos Mitsotakis said backing the motion was “the minimum level of consensus that democratic political parties can reach on this significant historic unresolved issue.”
The occupation loan provides the strongest basis for Greece’s argument, he said, adding that the country must “build its legal case with strength and a responsible and realistic attitude.” The claim, he said, is “certainly legally open and politically feasible.” Because when you fucked up your country, the obvious course is to blame everyone else. Germany will tell them they are stupid and ignore them. The EU court will take it up and discuss it, but I very much doubt they have a snowballs chance in hell. And populists will keep on doing everything they can that doesn't involve actually fixing the shit the country is in.
A debt is a debt is a debt. If Germany ignores it then Greece has a great case to ignore their debts towards Germany, at least in the Greek public. Since repaying the 2010-2015 debt is not possible and demanding it is pure populism it is only reasonable for the Greek parties to put forward any such populist demand against Germany that they can find.
|
In the US we made it pretty clear that states can't seek damages from one another in court because, well, that is super easy to abuse. And they weren't even sovereign nations. I agree with the assessment that the only way an EU court accepts this is if Germany consents to the process.
|
On April 18 2019 06:18 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2019 06:11 Gorsameth wrote:On April 18 2019 06:06 Big J wrote:Greek MPs late Wednesday approved a proposal by a parliamentary committee for Greece to formally seek reparations from Germany for war crimes even as Berlin rejected the demands, claiming that there was no basis for reparations.
The proposal calls on the government to take “all appropriate diplomatic and legal action to demand and fully satisfy all claims of the Greek state.” http://www.ekathimerini.com/239660/article/ekathimerini/news/greek-mps-vote-to-demand-german-war-reparationsThis might become interesting, since the demand is also backed the upcoming conservative government MP's: Conservative New Democracy leader Kyriakos Mitsotakis said backing the motion was “the minimum level of consensus that democratic political parties can reach on this significant historic unresolved issue.”
The occupation loan provides the strongest basis for Greece’s argument, he said, adding that the country must “build its legal case with strength and a responsible and realistic attitude.” The claim, he said, is “certainly legally open and politically feasible.” Because when you fucked up your country, the obvious course is to blame everyone else. Germany will tell them they are stupid and ignore them. The EU court will take it up and discuss it, but I very much doubt they have a snowballs chance in hell. And populists will keep on doing everything they can that doesn't involve actually fixing the shit the country is in. A debt is a debt is a debt. If Germany ignores it then Greece has a great case to ignore their debts towards Germany, at least in the Greek public. Since repaying the 2010-2015 debt is not possible and demanding it is pure populism it is only reasonable for the Greek parties to put forward any such populist demand against Germany that they can find.
A "debt" isn't a debt, what Greece is seeking is a reparation, for which there is no real legal basis. The issue was generally considered to be resolved with the reunification (and the "two plus four" treaty), and Greece did not seek any reparations when joining the European Union.
In contrast to this, the loans that Greece took on are very much contractual obligations, and Greece is completely able to service them. If they weren't, Greece would have declared bankruptcy. I'm not really sure in what world it is populism for a country to service their national debt.
|
greeks have been asking for reparations since spring 2015. in theory they have a case and can be heard by the International Court of Justice in The Hague(if/when/after Germany refuses talks on the matter) especially for the forced loan which could be divorced from damages and seen as a banking transaction.
thing is, there will be a legislative election in Greece late this year and pooling shows the Coalition for the Radical Left (Syriza) loosing to the New Democracy(ND), liberal-conservative faction, so it kind of looks like shit politics in action.
|
this is more interesting: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/17/deutsche-bank-faces-action-over-20bn-russian-money-laundering-scheme Germany’s troubled Deutsche Bank faces fines, legal action and the possible prosecution of “senior management” because of its role in a $20bn Russian money-laundering scheme, a confidential internal report seen by the Guardian says.
The bank admits there is a high risk that regulators in the US and UK will take “significant disciplinary action” against it. Deutsche concedes that the scandal has hurt its “global brand” – and is likely to cause “client attrition”, loss of investor confidence and a decline in its market value.
Deutsche Bank was embroiled in a vast money-laundering operation, dubbed the Global Laundromat. Russian criminals with links to the Kremlin, the old KGB and its main successor, the FSB, used the scheme between 2010 and 2014 to move money into the western financial system. The cash involved could total $80bn, detectives believe. The bank was entirely unaware of the scam until the Guardian and Organised Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) broke the story in March 2017, the report says. The first it knew was an email from the Guardian and Germany’s Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper asking for comment.
“Only with this intelligence received is it now possible for Deutsche Bank to start global investigations,” it notes.
In the embarrassing aftermath, the bank asked two in-house financial crime investigators – Philippe Vollot and Hinrich Völcker – to find out what had gone wrong. Their nine-page presentation was shared last year with the audit committee of the bank’s supervisory board and is marked “strictly confidential”. the article looks pretty detailed; it outlines some shady deals made by Deutsche Bank including the loan to Trump, the police raid over its Panama Papers (alleged)involvement, the trade scheme out of its branch in Moscow and others.
|
The Insee (national statistics) just released a study about housing prices in France over the last 20 years. They were multiplied by 2,3 in average. Renter households spend in average 28% of their budget for housing.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4a9EG0W4AANJDj.jpg) Grey = prices for new housing Orange = prices for old housing Green = prices for old housing in the region near Paris
|
The alt right is producing one totally shit conspiracy theory about Notre Dame fire after another.
Those people reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally want it to be a muslim terror attack. It looks like.
|
On April 18 2019 21:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:
The alt right is producing one totally shit conspiracy theory about Notre Dame fire after another.
Those people reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally want it to be a muslim terror attack. It looks like.
If it was really a terror attack, some organisation would immediately claim responsibility to show off their success, imo.
|
On April 18 2019 22:04 PoulsenB wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2019 21:27 Biff The Understudy wrote:
The alt right is producing one totally shit conspiracy theory about Notre Dame fire after another.
Those people reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally want it to be a muslim terror attack. It looks like. If it was really a terror attack, some organisation would immediately claim responsibility to show off their success, imo.
It also wouldn't have been a light enough fire for partial damage. Of course it had a lot of damage but if you want your name out there you put in more fuel or even some explosives so that the historical artefacts get lost.
|
On April 18 2019 19:50 TheDwf wrote:The Insee (national statistics) just released a study about housing prices in France over the last 20 years. They were multiplied by 2,3 in average. Renter households spend in average 28% of their budget for housing. + Show Spoiler +Grey = prices for new housing Orange = prices for old housing Green = prices for old housing in the region near Paris
Our government has presented a new law today to allow tenants of publically subvened cooperatives to buy the flats after 5 years.
So in essence:
1) State takes money from wages to create cheaper housing
2) State rents out those flats to low income people
3) People with low income that have "magically" accumulated enough money to buy those flats do so at reduced prices.
--> Transfering tax money from working people to people who inherit money but are useless parasites who cannot find a decent job themselves despite all their parents money.
Gotta keep the bougeoisie breeding despite not being competitive ob the job market, I guess.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
