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European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1223

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18846 Posts
January 16 2019 21:12 GMT
#24441
The idea that you can generalize a reference to “three generations” without also mentioning the historical context those generations adhere to seems very flawed...
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
January 16 2019 21:47 GMT
#24442
On January 17 2019 05:47 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2019 04:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
On January 17 2019 04:11 Nyxisto wrote:
People here trying to argue that reproduction somehow compounds intelligence is a biology 101 error. As long as above average intelligent people intermingle with the general population, regression to the mean occurs and people revert back to an average level of intelligence.
The reality is, rich people tend to marry other rich people, and successful educated people tend to marry other successful educated people.


That people marry people in their own socio-economical cohort because they have similar preferences isn't surprising and there's nothing wrong it it. The suggestions however that this is due to some genetic advantage or eternal wealth transfer is wrong, because it is a simple fact that there is no caste of intelligent super-humans, and that wealth is eroded over the course of only relatively few generations.

So, unless we're talking about a wealthy descendant of some merchant family in Venice, if two successful people meet today they likely do so because they're skilled and educated, not because they've inherited a great deal of intellect or money.

I didn't say it is suprising or that there is something wrong with it. But how nice of you to infer that.

Either way you admit that you are completely wrong. Which I was pointing out. Which for some reason you decided to deflect that I am making some sort of moral judgement, which I was not.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-16 22:08:00
January 16 2019 22:07 GMT
#24443
On January 17 2019 06:47 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2019 05:47 Nyxisto wrote:
On January 17 2019 04:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
On January 17 2019 04:11 Nyxisto wrote:
People here trying to argue that reproduction somehow compounds intelligence is a biology 101 error. As long as above average intelligent people intermingle with the general population, regression to the mean occurs and people revert back to an average level of intelligence.
The reality is, rich people tend to marry other rich people, and successful educated people tend to marry other successful educated people.


That people marry people in their own socio-economical cohort because they have similar preferences isn't surprising and there's nothing wrong it it. The suggestions however that this is due to some genetic advantage or eternal wealth transfer is wrong, because it is a simple fact that there is no caste of intelligent super-humans, and that wealth is eroded over the course of only relatively few generations.

So, unless we're talking about a wealthy descendant of some merchant family in Venice, if two successful people meet today they likely do so because they're skilled and educated, not because they've inherited a great deal of intellect or money.

I didn't say it is suprising or that there is something wrong with it. But how nice of you to infer that.

Either way you admit that you are completely wrong. Which I was pointing out. Which for some reason you decided to deflect that I am making some sort of moral judgement, which I was not.


I didn't deflect at all and I am not wrong. The discussion revolved around whether success and accumulation of capital and inequality are the result of inheritance or genes. That is not true. You responded by pointing out that rich people tend to date rich people. Even if zero wealth was inherited, there was zero influence of biological factors on inequality, and we would live in a purely meritocratic society, assortative mating could still be very popular among peers. So no, I wasn't deflecting at all, you just threw something entirely irrelevant into the discussion.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-16 22:16:17
January 16 2019 22:16 GMT
#24444
I quoted the exact 2 sentences that I take issue with, and is responding to. You agree that it is true, deflected it by pretending I ma making a moral judgement and now you are just regurgitating your original talking points. Why bother Nyxisto. That you are wrong doesn't make everything else you have written invalid. Just suck it up and move on.
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
January 17 2019 11:02 GMT
#24445
With the way this discussion is going I'm waiting for someone to bust out some old Randian Objectivism.

I think one of the quietest evils of Capitalism is that we're bred to believe acquiring wealth means being a good parent in and of itself, often replacing being an actual parent and raising your children.

Arguments about wealth and intelligence are inherently screwed up because wealthy people both have access to the best education and get the most opportunities to develop whatever intellectual limits they have. In addition rating intelligence isn't the easiest thing to do, and a lot of Trust Fund babies are about as smart and talented as the average rock.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9768 Posts
January 17 2019 11:06 GMT
#24446
On January 17 2019 20:02 iamthedave wrote:
With the way this discussion is going I'm waiting for someone to bust out some old Randian Objectivism.

I think one of the quietest evils of Capitalism is that we're bred to believe acquiring wealth means being a good parent in and of itself, often replacing being an actual parent and raising your children.

Arguments about wealth and intelligence are inherently screwed up because wealthy people both have access to the best education and get the most opportunities to develop whatever intellectual limits they have. In addition rating intelligence isn't the easiest thing to do, and a lot of Trust Fund babies are about as smart and talented as the average rock.



There's also the concept of degradation of meritocracy, as very well explained in the following (extremely long) article:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/oct/19/the-myth-of-meritocracy-who-really-gets-what-they-deserve

The idea here is the meritocracy in its pure form can never last, because those who get to the top of the meritocracy are then in a position to change the rules of said meritocracy to benefit their descendants.
Wealth and success pass down generations of the same family because of human nature, and there ain't no changing that.
RIP Meatloaf <3
horker_meat
Profile Joined January 2019
1 Post
January 17 2019 11:26 GMT
#24447
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014

You probably don’t know me, but like you I am one of those .01%ers, a proud and unapologetic capitalist. I have founded, co-founded and funded more than 30 companies across a range of industries—from itsy-bitsy ones like the night club I started in my 20s to giant ones like Amazon.com, for which I was the first nonfamily investor. Then I founded aQuantive, an Internet advertising company that was sold to Microsoft in 2007 for $6.4 billion. In cash. My friends and I own a bank. I tell you all this to demonstrate that in many ways I’m no different from you. Like you, I have a broad perspective on business and capitalism. And also like you, I have been rewarded obscenely for my success, with a life that the other 99.99 percent of Americans can’t even imagine. Multiple homes, my own plane, etc., etc. You know what I’m talking about. In 1992, I was selling pillows made by my family’s business, Pacific Coast Feather Co., to retail stores across the country, and the Internet was a clunky novelty to which one hooked up with a loud squawk at 300 baud. But I saw pretty quickly, even back then, that many of my customers, the big department store chains, were already doomed. I knew that as soon as the Internet became fast and trustworthy enough—and that time wasn’t far off—people were going to shop online like crazy. Goodbye, Caldor. And Filene’s. And Borders. And on and on.

Realizing that, seeing over the horizon a little faster than the next guy, was the strategic part of my success. The lucky part was that I had two friends, both immensely talented, who also saw a lot of potential in the web. One was a guy you’ve probably never heard of named Jeff Tauber, and the other was a fellow named Jeff Bezos. I was so excited by the potential of the web that I told both Jeffs that I wanted to invest in whatever they launched, big time. It just happened that the second Jeff—Bezos—called me back first to take up my investment offer. So I helped underwrite his tiny start-up bookseller. The other Jeff started a web department store called Cybershop, but at a time when trust in Internet sales was still low, it was too early for his high-end online idea; people just weren’t yet ready to buy expensive goods without personally checking them out (unlike a basic commodity like books, which don’t vary in quality—Bezos’ great insight). Cybershop didn’t make it, just another dot-com bust. Amazon did somewhat better. Now I own a very large yacht.

But let’s speak frankly to each other. I’m not the smartest guy you’ve ever met, or the hardest-working. I was a mediocre student. I’m not technical at all—I can’t write a word of code. What sets me apart, I think, is a tolerance for risk and an intuition about what will happen in the future. Seeing where things are headed is the essence of entrepreneurship. And what do I see in our future now?

I see pitchforks.

At the same time that people like you and me are thriving beyond the dreams of any plutocrats in history, the rest of the country—the 99.99 percent—is lagging far behind. The divide between the haves and have-nots is getting worse really, really fast. In 1980, the top 1 percent controlled about 8 percent of U.S. national income. The bottom 50 percent shared about 18 percent. Today the top 1 percent share about 20 percent; the bottom 50 percent, just 12 percent.

But the problem isn’t that we have inequality. Some inequality is intrinsic to any high-functioning capitalist economy. The problem is that inequality is at historically high levels and getting worse every day. Our country is rapidly becoming less a capitalist society and more a feudal society. Unless our policies change dramatically, the middle class will disappear, and we will be back to late 18th-century France. Before the revolution.


I'm holding a goddamn pitchfork as we speak.

User was warned for this post.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-19 19:36:55
January 19 2019 19:35 GMT
#24448
I found this linked on twitter and given how bizarre it is I wouldn't put my life on it actually being true ... but if it is it's hilarious:

Supposedly McDonalds just lost a dispute against a small (?) irish restaurant over the trademarked term "Big Mac", essentially failing to prove that they do indeed use that name and thus losing it's trademark.

I found 2 sources in german, one from handelsblatt.com (source: www.handelsblatt.com) and one from welt.de (source: www.welt.de). The only thing I've found so far on it in english is an article from slate.com (source: slate.com). Going to quote from that one:

According to the EUIPO decision, McDonald’s submitted three affidavits which detailed McDonald’s historical Big Mac sales figures; menus listing the Big Mac; brochures and even sandwich packaging—one each from England, Germany, and France; screenshots of local McDonald’s websites in 18 countries across the EU “identifying … Big Mac sandwiches, some of which state that they are sandwiches made of beef meat.”; and a printout of the McDonald’s Wikipedia entry with its rich history of the chain’s presence in Europe—and the Big Macs it sold there.

The EUIPO’s response to McDonald’s evidence is, frankly, hilarious. To the detailed affidavits and websites that set out the Big Mac’s availability, trademark examiners brushed them off, essentially stating "Of course you would say that! You’re trying to enforce a trademark!"

Does that seem like an exaggeration? The ruling expressly says affidavits from the parties are “generally given less weight than independent evidence” and “all of the remaining evidence”—the websites, brochures, and sandwich packaging samples—“originates from [McDonald’s] itself.” And so the sales figures submitted in sworn testimony, the McDonald’s sandwich boxes that you know examiners had seen before on their own trays, and the screenshot of a French menu with Le Big Mac sandwich au boeuf were all so lacking in persuasiveness and credibility that the only thing McDonald’s had left was … Wikipedia. And if the EUIPO doesn’t trust sworn testimony from a trademark-holder, you can imagine what they said about Wikipedia.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9270 Posts
January 19 2019 20:11 GMT
#24449
At first glance it looks like McDonald's was just lazy with their evidence, but I'm a little surprised the EUIPO doesn't have a "common knowledge" rule.

McDonald's didn't lose the dispute though, they can still (and surely will) appeal against the decision.
You're now breathing manually
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
January 23 2019 17:59 GMT
#24450
"I believe in the principle, that law has to follow politics and not politics the law."

Herbert Kickl, Austrian Freedom Party (FPÖ), minister of the interior and thereby in command of the Austrian police forces.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 23 2019 18:05 GMT
#24451
Damn. Fascism is a hell of a drug kids. Learn to see it coming before it too takes over your police force and they say laws get in the way of them doing the will of the people.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
January 23 2019 20:40 GMT
#24452
For some reason Austrian politics has always been particularly wild by central European standards.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23608 Posts
January 23 2019 21:23 GMT
#24453
On January 24 2019 03:05 Plansix wrote:
Damn. Fascism is a hell of a drug kids. Learn to see it coming before it too takes over your police force and they say laws get in the way of them doing the will of the people.


This is ironic coming from the US in the era of Trump.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 23 2019 21:36 GMT
#24454
On January 24 2019 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2019 03:05 Plansix wrote:
Damn. Fascism is a hell of a drug kids. Learn to see it coming before it too takes over your police force and they say laws get in the way of them doing the will of the people.


This is ironic coming from the US in the era of Trump.

Friends don't let friends engage in fascism.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23608 Posts
January 23 2019 21:41 GMT
#24455
On January 24 2019 06:36 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2019 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
On January 24 2019 03:05 Plansix wrote:
Damn. Fascism is a hell of a drug kids. Learn to see it coming before it too takes over your police force and they say laws get in the way of them doing the will of the people.


This is ironic coming from the US in the era of Trump.

Friends don't let friends engage in fascism.


Friendship is a two-way street and if that's a responsibility of a friend our friends (should they exist) have failed.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14098 Posts
January 23 2019 22:14 GMT
#24456
On January 24 2019 06:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2019 06:36 Plansix wrote:
On January 24 2019 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
On January 24 2019 03:05 Plansix wrote:
Damn. Fascism is a hell of a drug kids. Learn to see it coming before it too takes over your police force and they say laws get in the way of them doing the will of the people.


This is ironic coming from the US in the era of Trump.

Friends don't let friends engage in fascism.


Friendship is a two-way street and if that's a responsibility of a friend our friends (should they exist) have failed.

Yeah Trump is really Europes fault. Man, I was feeling so bad being responsible for him but now I know I bear no responsibility for him at all.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-24 06:09:28
January 24 2019 06:08 GMT
#24457
Yeah in fact it was me personally, i'm responsible for Trump.

Not dipshits that, you know, voted for Trump as "protest" because they didn't like what democrats were doing (amongst others).

I mean, how could european countries possibly have done this to the US? Imagine how great our friendship nowadays would be if, you know, the EU, european leaders etc went to the US telling everybody who to vote for? That would've gone great. You know. Because we're friends and all, nobody in the US would've minded, europe fiddling in the US elections.

On track to MA1950A.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23608 Posts
January 24 2019 06:17 GMT
#24458
How did you guys pull away that I was blaming Trump on Europe?

I was pointing out the irony in the US warning Europe about rising fascism while we're actively endorsing unashamed fascists around the world.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5298 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-24 09:28:39
January 24 2019 09:27 GMT
#24459
wow, get with the times dudes, fascism is way to early nineteens. this here is all about corruption, assholes in power covering their asses; it happens here too.
the dude first mentioning fascism should ban himself, you know, 'cause he feels bad he acted that way; trying to mix ethics, morals and ideals with pure greed/gluttony ... shame, shame, shame.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
January 24 2019 11:14 GMT
#24460
On January 24 2019 15:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
How did you guys pull away that I was blaming Trump on Europe?

I was pointing out the irony in the US warning Europe about rising fascism while we're actively endorsing unashamed fascists around the world.


Actively courting and treating as closer friends and allies than historical ones, too.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
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