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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On December 11 2018 04:28 TheDwf wrote:Macron talked. His main announcements and statements: - The income of someone at the minimum wage will rise by 100 euros, without employeers paying a single euro for it. + Show Spoiler +He was very ambiguous about how he would do it, either he will take 100 euros from the gross and give it to the net; or he will simply rise the prime d'activité, an aid the State gives to low-income workers, by said 100 euros. - For pensioners earning less than 2 000 euros, he cancels the controversial tax rise (CSG) decided in 2017. He said: " The effort asked was too important". - He asks employeers to give workers a prime this year. This prime will be void of taxes and charges. - No taxes or charges on extra hours in 2019. - He justified the suppression of the wealth tax and won't come back on it. Said something like, "it didn't make France happy when it existed". - Said that he wanted to best fight fiscal evasion. + Show Spoiler +Empty words imo since he didn't give a single detail about it - Said he was aware that " some of [his] words could have hurt some of you". Didn't apologize though. - Intends to keep reforming. - "We're at an historic time, but unlike in the past + Show Spoiler +he admitted that he didn't manage to give answers to people's needs in 18 months, but "this anger is 40 years old" this time we will make the necessary changes."
23 millions of people watched Macron's address Monday (more than the World Cup football final).
Macron lied or at least used a manipulative sentence. He said “the salary of someone earning the minimum wage will be raised by 100 euros”; at first TV channels and millions of people understood “the minimum wage will be raised by 100 euros” but that's not the case. This +100 euros is apparently obtained the following way: +20 for the minimum wage [automatic yearly revalorisation, merely following the inflation here]; +20 from lowered cotisations; +60 from the prime of activity, a State aid. Those +60 were supposed to be spread over 3 years, but Macron accelerated it. Thus we get the +100 in January. But:
- The prime of activity is not given to everyone (and you need to ask for it). Only 35-40% of the people at the minimum wage get it!
- It does not count in the calculation of pensions, since it's not wage.
- Whether or not you can get this prime depends on the revenues of your household. If your partner earns “too much,” you don't get it.
- If you're part time, you don't get it.
With some delay, mainstream medias precised that it was not the minimum wage itself which was risen, but imo Macron's little manipulation will heavily backfire. Lots of people did believe, upon watching TV, that he was raising the minimum wage. When they learnt in dicussions that it's not the case, I bet they were quite mad. We're in a period of fast conscientization and politization, this +100 euros was necessarily going to be dissected to death. The maneuver will appear like it is: a scam. This insincere communication, when the trust is already at an all-times low, is the kind of thing which pours mass oil on the fire: “so the President is trying to trick us…”
According to 2 polls, a bit less than 60% of the French people were not convinced by Macron's address (even more among the social classes which wear the most the yellow vest…). 65% disagree with his decision not to restore the wealth tax.
What Macron doesn't get is that people want more. So far most of what he has conceded was “okay, you won't get less”. But people are not satisfied with what they currently have, so “not getting less” doesn't solve it. “Return to normalcy” cannot be the answer when normalcy is deemed unbearable.
Besides, his announcements targeted specific groups: people at the minimum wage, people who do overtime hours and pensioners earning between 1 200 and 2 000 euros (if they live alone…). For the rest, they got nothing. Public servants nothing. Jobless people nothing. Part-time workers nothing. Pensioners below 1 200 nothing. Workers who can't do overtime nothing. Workers above ~1 400 euros nothing. Defiscalizing overtime hours—an old sarkozyst measure which matched Sarkozy's “work more to earn more” campaign motto—is also a pretty horrible solution in a context of mass employment.
The cost of all those measures will be around 10 billions; thus there is a risk that France doesn't respect the Holy 3%. In this case Macron's credibility in Europe will be ruined and fractures will further increase in the majority, since the 3% is the neoliberal totem. The hardcore wing of macronism and the high public function are not happy at all, as usual serfs cost too much. Technocrats had all those nice battle plans to neoliberalize France and finally tame this social model which they see as archaic and “too generous,” all went well for 18 months, and then serfs started throwing stones at the cavalry and everything went wrong: horror, we're back to the “drug of public expenditure” to buy social peace!
The question of who will pay those measures is still open. Probably budget cuts here and then, and deficit for the rest. The rich and companies are Macron's two sacred cows, no way he makes them contribute significantly.
Stupid pundits were quick to call those measures a “social turn” but so far Macron is simply holding the course without saying it. There is no change of philosophy in his policy.
Macron's speech contradicted the previous declarations of several ministres. It seems clear they have no precise idea how to fund and sometimes even implement their measures, the improvisation is total. They are panicking.
Speaking of panic; according to the press, last Saturday the blinded vehicles in Paris carried a special “debilitating liquid” able to knock out a threatening crowd, and a helicopter was ready to exfiltrate Macron from l'Élysée. Not so serene at the top, uh?
Tuesday, a terror attack happened in Strasbourg. 3 people were killed and a dozen wounded. Shooter, wounded, still at large [police found him and killed him tonight after I wrote this]. The government jumped on this to ask the yellow vests to stop their movement… Nice combo of obnoxious political exploitation + fuel for all the conspiracy theories. But even without that, the political and media pressure for the movement to stop is clearly increasing these days.
The censure motion of the left and “social-democrats” was debated today. It was of course rejected. The mainstream right refused to vote it, but the far-right did.
National union demonstration tomorrow. Only the first union called for this day of action though. They're asking for wage increases (pensions and social minima too). It matches the social demands of the yellow vests, but this time it comes under a classic union form. It will be a test of mobilization on the union side I guess.
We will see Saturday if the movement of the yellow vests remains steady or withers. If the yellow vests hold, Macron is in dire straits.
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I'm going to be 100 with you. Your posts make me sound really good when I talk about the protests with other people.
They're also a really easy read as compared to what I read from the news.
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The Catalan political troubles just came closer to home. Shit hit the fan at my work:
Every Christmas we have a social gathering with an informal lunch, some music and general merrymaking. Upper management decided to cancel the lunch (but keep the music and social gathering) in order to show support for the political prisoners' hunger strike. My inbox exploded with a quite a few colleagues saying angrily that the official standpoint is political neutrality, and that has been broken. They will therefore not participate in the merrymaking.
I personally think it is an absurd thing to do. For starters, cancelling an in-company Christmas lunch does nothing to support the political prisoners in any way shape or form. If you truly want to show support, you should publicly join the hunger strike. And probably abstain from merrymaking as well, not do some half-assed canceling of Christmas lunch. Secondly, this would maybe be a good idea if we were some extremely Catalan group, but we are a very international bunch, and the official position of political neutrality exists for a reason. Willfully inviting political friction into the company seems like a terrible idea.
Finally, I do agree the treatment of the prisoners is horrific. They have been in jail, without trial! for over a year now, with vague charges of "instigating a rebellion". The misuse of public funds is a truer, and more likely to stick, charge, but they are being treated as if they are serial killers and a danger to society. They are kept separated from one another and are only allowed very limited visitors. It's absurd, and counterproductive (just riling up the divide, the longer this goes on).
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According to the Interior, last Saturday (15/12) 66 000 people participated in the act V of the yellow vests, i.e. less than the 69 000 cops mobilized. I don't trust those numbers, especially as the figures in Paris—between 2 200 and 3 000—seem ridiculous. Lots of people complained that they had been blocked and could not reach Paris. 56 metro stations had been closed. Cops blocked the crowd in various places, sometimes attacked it preemptively for no reason. I think the government's strategy was to organize the impossibility to demonstrate in Paris so that mainstream medias, which are parisianocentric as hell, would claim as early as the morning that “the movement is slowing down”.
Intuitively, I would say that there were less people indeed but the decrease was exaggerated to stick with the “Macron's address solved the problem, the movement has no reason to carry on now” governmental storytelling. After all, between the horrible weather (cold and rain), the possible fatigue and weariness after a few weeks of actions, it seems logical that there were less people in the streets. Not to mention Strasbourg's terror attacks and the various calls to a “truce”. In this regard it should be noted that no widespread vandalism or violence were committed.
Pro-order pundits and the government were eager to jump on this reflux to declare that the movement had to stop. But this is simply wishful thinking. The yellow rascals have no reason to stop their movement since they were not fully heard yet. The Interior started evacuating the little camps that the yellow vests have been building near the ronds-points [traffic circles], but this merely angers people who tend to come back later.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DutbF7uW4AQYDqj.jpg) First we make expand, then we defense it.
The government is staging a conflict between itself and the high administration (“technocracy”). The little fairy tale for children goes like this: in its magnanimity, the good government listened to serfs but the villain technocrats are sabotaging our generosity. The truth is more trivial: Macron decided alone and in emergency of a few measures, and he did not bother to check if what he announced was doable in time. And it's not. Neither the +100 euros nor the tax decrease for a few millions of pensioners will be ready by January. The Prime minister announced that the +100 euros would be not be ready before February the 5th. And the tax decrease will only be effective… by July (so pensioners who benefit from it will receive a big, retroactive paycheck). The +100 euros, supposed to be there for “all people at the minimum wage,” will only concern about 55% of those people. Macron said that “pensioners between 1 200 and 2 000 euros will get the tax decrease” but it's actually calculated on the household, not individual incomes; so a couple of pensioners earning 1 500 euros each won't get the decrease for instance. It won't take long for torches and pitchforks to come back in the streets. Given the abysmal level of distrust, many of the yellow vests won't care about administrative technicalities and will simply think that they were tricked.
The chain of command at the top is still shaky. Tuesday, at the end of the afternoon, the Prime minister announced that 130 millions of public aids promised in November, at the beginning of the crisis, were cancelled. Macronist MPs learnt it live and apparently rebelled. Two hours later, the Prime minister… cancelled the cancellation. Since the Benalla affair I am really baffled by the amateurism in this government. You announce 1 000 euros for serfs, and then you try to take back 13 euros… so petty, so senseless. Of course they don't really know how to fund the promises and they're mad at exceeding 3% of deficit (the Prime minister announced a 3,2% deficit), so in their mind taking back anything they can would be nice, but how could they ever think this would send a signal of peace to the yellow vests?!
Recently the Facebook initiators of the yellow vests put forward a single demand, the référendum d'initiative citoyenne [referendum based on citizens' initiative]. This référendum would allow 4 things: (1) propose a law (2) revoke a law (3) revoke an elected representative (4) modify the Constitution. The number of 700 000 necessary signatures to trigger such a referendum has been mentioned. The Prime minister said that he was “ok in the principle, but not on any theme or in any conditions”. The FI (left) will use its special day (once in a blue moon, opposing parties have a day to propose a few laws) in February to put forward this idea of a citizens' referendum. Pretty much all candidates but Fillon and Macron had, in one way or another, this citizens' referendum in their program. It's for sure majority in the population (about 80% of approval in polls), but as usual the devil lies in the details and the procedure.
Campaigning now for this referendum is, in my opinion, a strategic mistake. The government has one knee on the ground, and they specifically choose the demand which (a) does not cost a single penny and (b) can so easily be digested in the 3 months “grand citizens' consultation” which begins soon and ends in March. I don't know if people will participate, especially as the government's spokesman already warned that “it wouldn't undo the first 18 months” of Macron's term (so the result is already pre-given, it cannot lead to a significant turn). Its 4 themes will be (1) ecological transition (2) fiscality (3) organization of the State (4) democracy and citizenship [with extreme cynicism Macron had tried to put immigration as the fifth theme, but had to cancel in front of protests from his own camp…]. You can see the goverment's plan: talk until March, then oops! it's the European campaign, see you later; then it's summer—won't waste vacations, will you? See you in Autumn.
Speaking of cynical plans, macronists are actively encouraging the yellow vests to have a list in the European elections. Why? Because it would take votes from the main oppositions, i.e. the left and the far-right. A poll timely commanded by the macronist party has the yellow vests at 12%, taking 3 points from the FI (left) and the FN (far-right).
But all those clever, machiavellian plans fail to account for the short-term: the movement is still there, and it did not yet make the choice to bury itself in institutions or electoralism. There is an Act VI scheduled tomorrow, and even an act VIII for the New Year's Eve on the Champs Élysées—a disastrous symbol that the government will try to prevent at all costs.
It is of course likely that with the end of the year, feasts, winter, weariness and all the constraints of the professional and family life, street participation further decreases. This might give a false sense of security to macronists, who are more than eager to “move on”. But still waters run deep. 2019 promises to be hell for the Macronie.
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On December 22 2018 06:46 TheDwf wrote:According to the Interior, last Saturday (15/12) 66 000 people participated in the act V of the yellow vests, i.e. less than the 69 000 cops mobilized. I don't trust those numbers, especially as the figures in Paris—between 2 200 and 3 000—seem ridiculous. Lots of people complained that they had been blocked and could not reach Paris. 56 metro stations had been closed. Cops blocked the crowd in various places, sometimes attacked it preemptively for no reason. I think the government's strategy was to organize the impossibility to demonstrate in Paris so that mainstream medias, which are parisianocentric as hell, would claim as early as the morning that “the movement is slowing down”. Intuitively, I would say that there were less people indeed but the decrease was exaggerated to stick with the “Macron's address solved the problem, the movement has no reason to carry on now” governmental storytelling. After all, between the horrible weather (cold and rain), the possible fatigue and weariness after a few weeks of actions, it seems logical that there were less people in the streets. Not to mention Strasbourg's terror attacks and the various calls to a “truce”. In this regard it should be noted that no widespread vandalism or violence were committed. Pro-order pundits and the government were eager to jump on this reflux to declare that the movement had to stop. But this is simply wishful thinking. The yellow rascals have no reason to stop their movement since they were not fully heard yet. The Interior started evacuating the little camps that the yellow vests have been building near the ronds-points [traffic circles], but this merely angers people who tend to come back later. + Show Spoiler +First we make expand, then we defense it. The government is staging a conflict between itself and the high administration (“technocracy”). The little fairy tale for children goes like this: in its magnanimity, the good government listened to serfs but the villain technocrats are sabotaging our generosity. The truth is more trivial: Macron decided alone and in emergency of a few measures, and he did not bother to check if what he announced was doable in time. And it's not. Neither the +100 euros nor the tax decrease for a few millions of pensioners will be ready by January. The Prime minister announced that the +100 euros would be not be ready before February the 5th. And the tax decrease will only be effective… by July (so pensioners who benefit from it will receive a big, retroactive paycheck). The +100 euros, supposed to be there for “all people at the minimum wage,” will only concern about 55% of those people. Macron said that “pensioners between 1 200 and 2 000 euros will get the tax decrease” but it's actually calculated on the household, not individual incomes; so a couple of pensioners earning 1 500 euros each won't get the decrease for instance. It won't take long for torches and pitchforks to come back in the streets. Given the abysmal level of distrust, many of the yellow vests won't care about administrative technicalities and will simply think that they were tricked. The chain of command at the top is still shaky. Tuesday, at the end of the afternoon, the Prime minister announced that 130 millions of public aids promised in November, at the beginning of the crisis, were cancelled. Macronist MPs learnt it live and apparently rebelled. Two hours later, the Prime minister… cancelled the cancellation. Since the Benalla affair I am really baffled by the amateurism in this government. You announce 1 000 euros for serfs, and then you try to take back 13 euros… so petty, so senseless. Of course they don't really know how to fund the promises and they're mad at exceeding 3% of deficit (the Prime minister announced a 3,2% deficit), so in their mind taking back anything they can would be nice, but how could they ever think this would send a signal of peace to the yellow vests?! Recently the Facebook initiators of the yellow vests put forward a single demand, the référendum d'initiative citoyenne [referendum based on citizens' initiative]. This référendum would allow 4 things: (1) propose a law (2) revoke a law (3) revoke an elected representative (4) modify the Constitution. The number of 700 000 necessary signatures to trigger such a referendum has been mentioned. The Prime minister said that he was “ok in the principle, but not on any theme or in any conditions”. The FI (left) will use its special day (once in a blue moon, opposing parties have a day to propose a few laws) in February to put forward this idea of a citizens' referendum. Pretty much all candidates but Fillon and Macron had, in one way or another, this citizens' referendum in their program. It's for sure majority in the population (about 80% of approval in polls), but as usual the devil lies in the details and the procedure. Campaigning now for this referendum is, in my opinion, a strategic mistake. The government has one knee on the ground, and they specifically choose the demand which (a) does not cost a single penny and (b) can so easily be digested in the 3 months “grand citizens' consultation” which begins soon and ends in March. I don't know if people will participate, especially as the government's spokesman already warned that “it wouldn't undo the first 18 months” of Macron's term (so the result is already pre-given, it cannot lead to a significant turn). Its 4 themes will be (1) ecological transition (2) fiscality (3) organization of the State (4) democracy and citizenship [with extreme cynicism Macron had tried to put immigration as the fifth theme, but had to cancel in front of protests from his own camp…]. You can see the goverment's plan: talk until March, then oops! it's the European campaign, see you later; then it's summer—won't waste vacations, will you? See you in Autumn. Speaking of cynical plans, macronists are actively encouraging the yellow vests to have a list in the European elections. Why? Because it would take votes from the main oppositions, i.e. the left and the far-right. A poll timely commanded by the macronist party has the yellow vests at 12%, taking 3 points from the FI (left) and the FN (far-right). But all those clever, machiavellian plans fail to account for the short-term: the movement is still there, and it did not yet make the choice to bury itself in institutions or electoralism. There is an Act VI scheduled tomorrow, and even an act VIII for the New Year's Eve on the Champs Élysées—a disastrous symbol that the government will try to prevent at all costs. It is of course likely that with the end of the year, feasts, winter, weariness and all the constraints of the professional and family life, street participation further decreases. This might give a false sense of security to macronists, who are more than eager to “move on”. But still waters run deep. 2019 promises to be hell for the Macronie.
Appreciate the updates. What have you heard regarding some of the police joining the protests? Is there some fracturing there or was that a misreading by some western media outlets?
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I read that they were threatening to join the protests but that it wasn't really anything more then that at this point if that helps.
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The Austrian Court of Audit just released their income report. The lowest decile of incomes is 30% lower (after inflation) than 20-years ago.
The people classfied as "workers" by the bourgeoisie + Show Spoiler +as opposed by real logics, aka Marxism, in which everyone who works is working class
But, as the "liberal" newspaper DerStandard appeases, that is mostly a blow to migrants and people working in "instable job segments" (a segment that is exploding in size and making a third of all jobs nowadays in Austria) and therefore up for interpretation, whether it actually sunk. For old people in secure jobs in the lowest decile the income even rose according to the report. So it is totally up for interpretation, even if the overall numbers clearly say its getting much worse!
Article in German: https://derstandard.at/2000094542646/Riss-am-Arbeitsmarkt-kommt-bei-den-Einkommen-voll-an
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On December 22 2018 06:56 GreenHorizons wrote:
Appreciate the updates. What have you heard regarding some of the police joining the protests? Is there some fracturing there or was that a misreading by some western media outlets?
On December 22 2018 09:16 Sermokala wrote:
I read that they were threatening to join the protests but that it wasn't really anything more then that at this point if that helps.
The police threatened to start its own protest this week. In less than 24 hours, they got 120 to 150 euros of wage rise, a 300 euros prime and a promise from the State to pay the 20+ millions of overtime hours still not paid to cops. All of that thanks to the indirect leverage of the yellow vests, since the government cannot afford another front, especially on such a key institution to hold the angry crowd every Saturday.
Police unions who negotiated with the Interior rejoiced about this deal. The base, I don't know. Obviously no one spits on the extra money, but many of their demands were related to their bad work conditions. Their equipement, cars, rooms are worn out because of austerity and budget cuts. They work too much because of the terrorist threat and social movements, etc. They also have the feeling that their hierarchy and the power don't listen to them and don't "consider" them. That part was not dealt with yet.
Lots of cops probably support or have sympathy for the movement of the yellow vests, but they still flashball the crowd when asked to... I read some interviews in which cops, anonymously of course, were questioning their orders, basically saying that their hierarchy asked them to over-repress demonstrations. But there are also little brutes who enjoy beating the crap out of demonstrators. Anyway, cops still obey to orders.
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On December 22 2018 20:05 Big J wrote:The Austrian Court of Audit just released their income report. The lowest decile of incomes is 30% lower (after inflation) than 20-years ago. The people classfied as "workers" by the bourgeoisie + Show Spoiler +as opposed by real logics, aka Marxism, in which everyone who works is working class have lost 13% of their income. But, as the "liberal" newspaper DerStandard appeases, that is mostly a blow to migrants and people working in "instable job segments" (a segment that is exploding in size and making a third of all jobs nowadays in Austria) and therefore up for interpretation, whether it actually sunk. For old people in secure jobs in the lowest decile the income even rose according to the report. So it is totally up for interpretation, even if the overall numbers clearly say its getting much worse! Article in German: https://derstandard.at/2000094542646/Riss-am-Arbeitsmarkt-kommt-bei-den-Einkommen-voll-an
Interesting. Recently some study published in France found that the disposable income of French househoulds had decreased by 440 euros between 2008 and 2016. The study said that redistribution actually worked since the poorest households saw their income increase. And yet those ungrateful people are still in the street since more than one month... 
Edit: hmm, actually I misread stuff. From the following graph the poorest households did lose some income between 2008 and 2016:
+ Show Spoiler +
Oh by the way, I forgot to share that beauty of graph, showing the cumulated impact of Macron's 2018 and 2019 budgets on the disposable income of French households. In red losers, in green winners. Poorest on the left, richest on the right.
+ Show Spoiler +
No comment needed I guess.
I read yesterday that there are still ongoing protests against the 60 hours week's labor in your country? Is is still in the national debate? Are the protests reduced to unions and politicized people or they're a bit larger? What does the far-right say?
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https://twitter.com/phl43/status/1078430946779693056?s=21
There are some brilliant people in Macron’s party and some of his MPs are a breath of fresh air in French politics, but from time to time, stuff like this happen and it’s absolutely hillarious. I read the twitter thread of that MP and my head almost exploded.
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Perhaps he is really tired of watching his words all the time and this is preplanned? He is quite young so if he goes 100 % acid trip on twitter now and its completly over the top he can hopefully wait it out. People forget shit pretty fast. And any normal tweets he makes for the rest of his life is not going to be newsworthy after this. Its like comparing people like Trump or Boris (the brexit dude) to normal politicians. They say shit all the time but no one cares anymore because its normal. But if a vanilla politician would tweet something even half as crazy the press goes mental.
Or ita Ochams razor and he is off his meds (or on something else).
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It really looks like the guy is on drug. It’s seriously the most spectacular unravelling I’ve seen on twitter; i hardly see how this guy has a future in politics after that. But at least it’s quite funny.
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Strange how people immediately think about drugs. What about a psychotic episode? Perhaps this person actually needs help and people immediately ridicule and whatnot, it's kind of disgusting really.
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On December 28 2018 23:01 Uldridge wrote:
Strange how people immediately think about drugs. What about a psychotic episode? Perhaps this person actually needs help and people immediately ridicule and whatnot, it's kind of disgusting really.
That, or he is just a clown. Considering the political landscape these days, I would say he probably is just a clown.
On a side note and to answer seriously. No, it doesn’t look at all like a psychotic episode.
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There are some cool graphs in this article. I'm not going to copy them here, I'll just list a few things I found the most interesting.
https://www.politico.eu/article/what-european-voters-worry-about-election-209-facts-figures/
Greek pessimism:
64% of Greeks are not happy with the way democracy works in the EU (worst result in the EU)
75% of Greeks are not happy with the way democracy works in their own country (worst result in the EU)
25% of Greeks think they will be better off in five years' time, 35% think they will be worse off (worst result in the EU)
Two Europes:
When it comes to trust in democratic institutions — whether those are EU or national institutions — there is a clear regional pattern: The bloc's north-west favors its own institutions over those of the EU, whereas the bloc's south-east distrusts its own democratic system more than it does the EU.
In Bulgaria, Spain and Croatia, more than half of the respondents did not think their country is doing all it can to prevent electoral fraud. In Scandinavian countries, that share dips below 10 percent.
In the EU's north-west, citizens worry about political extremism, while voters in the east are most concerned about migration. In the south, citizens' concerns tilt toward pollution and natural disasters.
I also noticed there is not a single country in the EU where both "Climate" and "Economy and growth" are among top three priorities of their citizens (check the first map, no green and blue squares next to each other).
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Sweden: Climate, EU future, Human rights
The Swedes really have their shit together
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Well, if You are not living paycheck to paycheck and do not need to worry about making enough money to survive then You can start worrying about other things. I am quite sure that they wouldnt be that worried about enviroment if their average/median wage was similiar to that of say Romania.
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On December 29 2018 18:37 Silvanel wrote:
Well, if You are not living paycheck to paycheck and do not need to worry about making enough money to survive then You can start worrying about other things. I am quite sure that they wouldnt be that worried about enviroment if their average/median wage was similiar to that of say Romania.
That is a fair point, which I would expand by adding that no matter their financial situation, as soon as the livelihood is endangered, people tend to consider this an important issue. See island states regarding cc.
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On December 29 2018 18:37 Silvanel wrote:
Well, if You are not living paycheck to paycheck and do not need to worry about making enough money to survive then You can start worrying about other things. I am quite sure that they wouldnt be that worried about enviroment if their average/median wage was similiar to that of say Romania.
I think this is very circular and misses the causality. Who says that having an eye on envrionemntal issues, fundamental human rights, and regional cooperation isn't the very reason for Sweden's economic and material success. Sweden is a internationally competitive, open society running on human capital and not on oil wealth. I think you would do Sweden a disservice if you were to pretend their economic success is unrelated to their commitment to political issues that put those cultural values at the forefront in the first place.
Who is to say that if Romania were to put human rights and European commitment at the top of the agenda, economic success would not follow?
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EPT![[image loading]](https://www.challenges.fr/assets/img/2018/12/21/cover-r4x3w1000-5c1cfae8b6d8b-les-menages-ont-perdu-440-euros-par-an-en-moyenne-du.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/04/43/04/20181013/ob_2df0bc_z4xqzb-7.jpg)
