EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1083
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22736 Posts
On April 27 2018 09:59 Plansix wrote: They are labeling them as gambling, which is sort of what the entire Loot box concept is modeled after. It was really a matter of time. I’m just surprised it didn’t have with FIFA and it’s ultimate team blind boxes. So is it looking like Belgium is going to ban the games/jail the devs/distributors in country? That Belgium (and countries that follow) will get different versions without lootboxes? Or some other solution? Basically does this mean no more lootboxes or no games for people in those countries? EDIT: Euro's forgive me for presuming other European countries will follow this. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22736 Posts
On April 27 2018 10:42 Plansix wrote: They just turn them off in that region and make an alternative system. And non compliance would result in fines. Depending on how many countries follow that could have dramatic impacts on the profit models for certain games, especially if the underlying concept is expanded beyond lootboxes to other imaginings of similar concepts. Pretty sure it boils down to money and lobbying in the US but I'm unclear how this will be handled throughout Europe and am looking for some insight from that neck of the woods. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6191 Posts
On April 27 2018 10:23 GreenHorizons wrote: So is it looking like Belgium is going to ban the games/jail the devs/distributors in country? That Belgium (and countries that follow) will get different versions without lootboxes? Or some other solution? Basically does this mean no more lootboxes or no games for people in those countries? EDIT: Euro's forgive me for presuming other European countries will follow this. In The Netherlands the regulator looked at 10 games and in 4 (they don't want to say which ones) the loot boxes are considered gambling. They have 8 weeks to change the loot boxes to comply with the rules. If they don't comply fines and/or outright banning the games will follow. I very much doubt they're going to jail anyone. It's not that big of a crime. Only have a Dutch source but I'll add it anyway. www.rtlnieuws.nl | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11340 Posts
I agree that lootboxes are kind of shitty, but they are basically only the digitalisation of a "gambling for kids" concept which already exists in the offline world, and which has existed for ages. I remember my dad fondly talking about surprise bags with toys (small plastic soldiers and things like that) in them which he bought when he was a child. Also, Kinder surprise eggs. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22736 Posts
On April 27 2018 15:58 Simberto wrote: It's kind of weird though, when compared to stuff like football cards, Magic/Pokemon cards and things like that. Those are basically the same concept, except offline, and do not seem to be seen as a problem. I agree that lootboxes are kind of shitty, but they are basically only the digitalisation of a "gambling for kids" concept which already exists in the offline world, and which has existed for ages. I remember my dad fondly talking about surprise bags with toys (small plastic soldiers and things like that) in them which he bought when he was a child. Also, Kinder surprise eggs. There's an interesting angle in the socially assigned value vs the material cost/retail price. Essentially something like kinder eggs or crackerjack prizes are generally fine (save the choking hazard) because the junk inside is all basically equally worthless. Determining the real value of digital items is a bit complex, if you can buy a red coat for 250 runies or 'gamble' for either a red and blue or blue and yellow coat for 350 runies can you really lose if you get 2 coats worth a combined total of 500 runies no matter the outcome? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17852 Posts
On April 27 2018 16:31 GreenHorizons wrote: There's an interesting angle in the socially assigned value vs the material cost/retail price. Essentially something like kinder eggs or crackerjack prizes are generally fine (save the choking hazard) because the junk inside is all basically equally worthless. Determining the real value of digital items is a bit complex, if you can buy a red coat for 250 runies or 'gamble' for either a red and blue or blue and yellow coat for 350 runies can you really lose if you get 2 coats worth a combined total of 500 runies no matter the outcome? You can if you can sell the red and blue coat for $500 and the blue and yellow coat for $0.05 on the steam market place. Oh, and you can buy extra "runies" for $3 per 100. Those are the ones that the Dutch gambling authority probably rapped on the fingers (speculation in Dutch news, because the details weren't made public). The expectation is that games with stuff that ONLY have in-game value (like overwatch) and cannot be monetized aren't affected by the Dutch rules. I can't speak for the new Belgian law. I do agree that it's surprising they didn't look into MTG or Pokemon cards. Or, for that matter, flippos, kinder eggs, etc. EDIT: looked into the Belgian ruling a bit more https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/video-game-loot-boxes-are-now-considered-criminal-gambling-in-belgium/ http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43906306 Apparently the Belgian and Dutch rulings are distinct indeed. They both take issue with lootboxes but for different reasons. It seems that opinions on the Dutch ruling are confused whether this means that MTG cards should be handled in the same way: the way it is (publicly) phrased doesn't seem to distinguis between a digital lootbox or a packet of cards, and focuses on the marketability of the reward. This only appears to target games with a real money marketplace (such as DOTA, CSGo or PUBG). I guess it remains to be seen how this affects games that don't have official trade, but where you can break the ToS quite easily and sell your account for real money. Meanwhile the Belgian ruling is both broader and narrower: it doesn't appear to care about marketability at all, and is focused on gambling as a game element requiring a micro-transaction. This thus excludes MTG boosters or flippos, which cannot really be considered a game element. Instead it appears to cover lootboxes in very many games, and it will be very interesting to see how this develops. | ||
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warding
Portugal2394 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Basically we are just doing whatever we interprete the law to be, since it is really not possible to clean up data that cannot even be accessed properly. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On April 27 2018 23:27 warding wrote: Speaking of regulation changes, is anyone else here having a lot of fun with having to implement GDPR (new EU privacy rules) in their organizations? In principle I think this is probably a good thing, although for small companies this can be a real pain given that nowadays practically everyone needs to collect data. no personal data collection here so as far as I know so no change for us, but I agree that it seems like a huge pain for smaller businesses that handle EU customer data. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
![[image loading]](http://resize-europe1.ladmedia.fr/img/var/europe1/storage/images/media/images/la-couverture-de-forbes-avec-emmanuel-macron/47984252-1-fre-FR/La-couverture-de-Forbes-avec-Emmanuel-Macron.jpg) Help plx, free France from this nightmare | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22736 Posts
I heard some May Day protesters did a little of that yesterday? No but seriously, hows that being treated over there? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17852 Posts
Lol. "I want this country open to disruption". I'm guessing he didn't mean disruption by rioting anarchocommunists  | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10605 Posts
A day whiteout any sort of strike (violent or not) or treat of strike in France seems like a special occasion not the norm. | ||
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Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
On May 02 2018 21:03 Velr wrote: Don't these happen like every year anyway? There is always a march in Paris for the 1st of may and there are always a few organized groups that take part to throw rocks at the police forces, break and/or burn a few shops/cars on the way (highlight last year was a molotov cocktail). The number of people kept for questioning this year (109) is higher than usual, according to the police those groups had ~1200 people this year when only ~600 were expected. No longer the main headline on news portals 24h later though. | ||
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