EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1084
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Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Has anyone here read anything from Henry George? And is it readable these days without having to take a course in 19th century English first.  | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On May 02 2018 20:47 Acrofales wrote: Lol. "I want this country open to disruption". I'm guessing he didn't mean disruption by rioting anarchocommunists  nothing is better propaganda for the status quo than rioting anarcho communists. I've never seen anything rallying society more effectively behind the conservative cause than twenty-somethings smashing the windows of small stores and setting trashcans on fire | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22736 Posts
I looked into why the US doesn't have something similar, FCC tried it in the 70's (this actually surprised me), Congress told them no and took away their power (this didn't). Some questions: Is it working generally? Does it apply to youtube or similar content created in Sweden? I read that some people say that it isn't very effective because it doesn't apply to programming coming from other countries in Europe without such restrictions. Is the reason that much of Europe hasn't adopted this regulation similar to the US (lobbyists/financial interests) or is there a good argument for why manipulative ads shouldn't be restricted from being used against young children's minds? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 04 2018 07:41 Nyxisto wrote: nothing is better propaganda for the status quo than rioting anarcho communists. I've never seen anything rallying society more effectively behind the conservative cause than twenty-somethings smashing the windows of small stores and setting trashcans on fire One of the big differences of our time: When the conservative youth attacks refugee centers and burns them down we don't use the correct term, which would be terror, for it. And it is generally hardly covered. It happens almost daily but you can read nowhere about it. On the other side you have left-wing youths fighting for their rights violently once a year and immidiately we have a united right and liberal media front peeing their expensive pants that we could have a world revolution any moment if they don't keep these sentiments down. If you actually think about it objectively it is really funny, the conservatives are those that fight for some nationalist collectivism, the socialists those that fight for their historically grown rights. And the so-called liberals obviously side with the collectivists on all matters. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 04 2018 07:41 Nyxisto wrote: nothing is better propaganda for the status quo than rioting anarcho communists. I've never seen anything rallying society more effectively behind the conservative cause than twenty-somethings smashing the windows of small stores and setting trashcans on fire The funny thing is that despite the presence of more people "black blocking", there was actually way less damage than the previous years. But nothing can stop the raw propaganda power of a camera filming live something spectacular. The French maintenance of order is violent, erratic and counter-productive, cop violence is increasing year after year, but mainstream medias never report it; even as some journalists are now targeted during demonstrations so that they cannot show what's going on. At any rate, in our lovely societies, better be a McDo shop window that an undocumented migrant or a worker: some people apparently show you much more compassion. Macron and his party are cynically trying to exploit this vandalism by saying that it's Mélenchon's fault as he "encourages verbally violence," blabla. Pathetic and gross, but that's how right-wingers go. Naturally he won't explain why those "autonomous activists" actually tried to attack a FI demonstration in September last year... On May 04 2018 17:09 Big J wrote: One of the big differences of our time: When the conservative youth attacks refugee centers and burns them down we don't use the correct term, which would be terror, for it. And it is generally hardly covered. It happens almost daily but you can read nowhere about it. On the other side you have left-wing youths fighting for their rights violently once a year and immidiately we have a united right and liberal media front peeing their expensive pants that we could have a world revolution any moment if they don't keep these sentiments down. This so much... Here in France, some fascists recently rented a freaking helicopter to watch over the French-Italian border and symbolically deployed a fence to stop migrants, and our Minister of Interior did nothing!! Not even a single arrest! | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11932 Posts
Getting to decide what is violence is one of the most powerful tools. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22736 Posts
On May 04 2018 19:10 Nebuchad wrote: Reminds me of something I heard on PhilosophyTube not long ago. Commentary on a headline that read "Violence erupts after officer-involved shooting". Doesn't seem that weird at first, but then you notice it implies that police officers shooting people isn't a violent act. Getting to decide what is violence is one of the most powerful tools. On May 04 2018 19:23 SoSexy wrote: Maybe because renting an helictoper and deploying a symbolic fence aren't crimes, while burning, looting, destroying cars are? As is defining the acceptable and accessible avenues of recourse to/emboldening of that violence | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 04 2018 19:23 SoSexy wrote: Maybe because renting an helictoper and deploying a symbolic fence aren't crimes, while burning, looting, destroying cars are? Yes SoSexy, there's no problem with fascists, some of them being borderline neonazis, acting like a private militia and usurping the powers of the State to "secure the border". And they won't put at all in danger the lives of exhausted people who try to cross the border in the mountains. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 04 2018 19:23 SoSexy wrote: Maybe because renting an helicopter and deploying a symbolic fence aren't crimes, while burning, looting, destroying cars are? Sometimes this site looks like /r socialism. Can't we just all agree that burning and destroying people cars is a shit move? That is the act of an individual defining the border. That is the very definition of state treason. It gets overseen because they claim the correct border for a nationalist cause that is widely accepted. But technically speaking they are not the democratic representation of the state and their proclaimed national state which which they take land by putting up a border fence is not the same as the democratic one, even if they name it the same. (Obviously jurisdiction is not a logical sience that is bound by any laws, so there is no repercussion here) | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
On May 04 2018 19:37 Big J wrote: That is the act of an individual defining the border. That is the very definition of state treason. It gets overseen because they claim the correct border for a nationalist cause that is widely accepted. But technically speaking they are not the democratic representation of the state and their proclaimed national state which which they take land by putting up a border fence is not the same as the democratic one, even if they name it the same. (Obviously jurisdiction is not a logical sience that is bound by any laws, so there is no repercussion here) So according to you democracy in France is threatened by 50 people doing a symbolic, stupid action that noone will remember in two months? Lol. Reminds me of the 'antifascist demonstration against the dangers of new totalitarianism' they organize in Italy - too bad they didn't notice the extreme right party reached a scary 0.43% in the last elections...and they wonder why the public steers away from them. It's just ridicolous. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 04 2018 19:36 SoSexy wrote: You have to make up your mind though. When we are talking about terrorists and other criminals this thread is all about redemption, no harsh prison, etc. Then you want arrests for a helicopter rent that did nothing (because the immigrants passed anyways, helped by some Italian group). Once I asked for a serious immigration policy like Australia or New Zealand and people called me 'fascist'. So now you have to accept EVERYONE in your state or you are a fascist. This is just insanity. Oh, but burning the car of a poor John is a noble act. I always take a sigh of relief knowing that fortunately this ideas won't make it past the usual 5% of the population and TL is just a echo chamber. Ignoring the impressive number of rhetorical scarecrows in those 6 lines: 1) As a right-winger, you supposedly believe in law & order, and you have no problems with a private militia pretending to enforce law & order in place of the State? Amusing. Are you actually anarchist? 2) We can't have the immigration policy of Australia or NZ if only because WE ARE NOT ISLANDS. 3) I talked about fascists not because of their stance on immigration, but because they are fascists. 4) I never said that burning cars was a brilliant idea, but I do relativize this occasional vandalism (which damages goods) compared with the immense social violence of the daily, routine functioning of society (which damages actual humans). And I do deplore the fact that this ordinary violence doesn't create as much emotion as 6 burnt cars, whereas its effects vastly outmatch the disorder "black blocks" create a few times per year. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17852 Posts
On May 04 2018 19:39 SoSexy wrote: So according to you democracy in France is threatened by 50 people doing a symbolic, stupid action that noone will remember in two months? Lol. Reminds me of the 'antifascist demonstration against the dangers of new totalitarianism' they organize in Italy - too bad they didn't notice the extreme right party reached a scary 0.43% in the last elections...and they wonder why the public steers away from them. It's just ridicolous. Wait. Lega Nord was whitewashed as no longer being extreme right? And Cinque Stelle cannot be called extreme right, but does incorporate a number of fascist ideas into its (claimed) policy. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22736 Posts
On May 04 2018 19:36 SoSexy wrote: You have to make up your mind though. When we are talking about terrorists and other criminals this thread is all about redemption, no harsh prison, etc. Then you want arrests for a helicopter rent that did nothing (because the immigrants passed anyways, helped by some Italian group). Once I asked for a serious immigration policy like Australia or New Zealand and people called me 'fascist'. So now you have to accept EVERYONE in your state or you are a fascist. This is just insane and pure hypocrisy, because I'm well sure that you lock your doors when you are out and that you aren't accepting random, unknown people under your roof. Oh, but burning the car of a poor John is a noble act. I always take a sigh of relief knowing that fortunately this ideas won't make it past the usual 5% of the population and TL is just a echo chamber. I'm but an ignorant 'Merican when it comes to most of the political situations in Europe at large or specific countries within it, but speaking for myself, compassion for people I otherwise find repugnant is a constant struggle. But whether a terrorist is running people over in the streets or dropping bombs on weddings from an f-16 or something more mundane like breaking windows or elaborate displays of the worst parts of 'nationalism' I don't think most people that would Identify as some branch of socialist consider holding people accountable for misdeeds and seeking rehabilitative justice mutually exclusive concepts. Though if they are anything like me, they may find staunch capitalists sometimes making it pretty easy not to want to. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 04 2018 19:39 SoSexy wrote: So according to you democracy in France is threatened by 50 people doing a symbolic, stupid action that noone will remember in two months? Lol. Reminds me of the 'antifascist demonstration against the dangers of new totalitarianism' they organize in Italy - too bad they didn't notice the extreme right party reached a scary 0.43% in the last elections...and they wonder why the public steers away from them. It's just ridicolous. Funny, so what is Lega in your eyes? And this is not the only far-right thing that happened in France those past few months, you know? Some far-right people had an attack project against a minister (who also happens to be the leader of Macron's party) and one of the main figures of the opposition. Some far-right people attacked an occupied university in Montpellier (beating students with weapons), a high school in Paris (with some nazi salutes, and again beating pupils), etc. There is a worrying ambiance of far-right groups daring to do things they shouldn't even think of. And guess what? It did far less noise than a few far-left people burning cars during May Day. Interesting double standards, no? | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
2) Nice to see some progress here. Once it was 'they have inhumane conditions', now it's 'we are not islands'. Immigration isn't black or white and surely the thing could be organized better. Or do you think that right now France, Italy, EU etc are doing a wonderful job? 3) Useless propaganda point. I could say the same thing about communists - but I prefer to talk and compare ideas, not people. 4) Can't believe you said that. Vandalism damages goods? of course, but you left out that if Pierre gets his goods destroyed, he is going to be affected. Maybe he won't be able to bring his girlfriend to Thoiry, maybe he will have to sell those concert tickets because he will need a bus monthly ticket until repairs are done. Vandalism directly damages goods but indirectly damages people. I can agree on the fact that society is shit and many people are cannon meat. But if you believe that the solution to that is creating more damage, then it's the same as trying to stop a wild fire using gasoline | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
As far as Lega is concerned, I don't find their leaders intellectually bright AT ALL. But last time I checked their programme, they did not have intention to create a single parlamentary organ, establish autarchy, eliminate adversaries, put all other parties out of law, etc. But surely they have liked this way of representing them - because it increased their percentage by 10%. It is important to understand that in Italy there are always around 40% of people who don't vote - this people might have sympathy for a party or another but they usually do not vote. The only reason that pushes them to vote is when they hear months of insults thrown by the other parties against their favorite one. This mechanism makes them go 'for fuck's sake, I hate this shit but I hate even more who insults like this'. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 04 2018 20:04 SoSexy wrote: As far as Lega is concerned, I don't find their leaders intellectually bright AT ALL. But last time I checked their programme, they did not have intention to create a single parlamentary organ, establish autarchy, eliminate adversaries, put all other parties out of law, etc. But man, that is not what defines far-right. A fascist dictatorship à la 1930's Italy is not the only way a far-right party can govern. | ||
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