European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1082

On April 24 2018 18:08 Dapper_Cad wrote:
I think Switzerland's small population very much does play into it's stability. It's what makes successful tax havens and resource based autocracies work: lots of cash / low pop = wealthy pop. Tax havens -once they make the natural move from simply being tax havens to "secrecy jurisdictions"- steal money from other countries and, because your population is so small the people making the real dough can afford to spread it around enough that the locals feel wealthy compared with neighbouring countries.

As a Brit, I'd like to offer my Swiss brethren a tax-haven-economy-soaked-in-the-blood-and-poverty-of-the-most-vulnerable-people-in-the-world HIGH FIVE. With luck the masters of Britain will exterminate 90% of the British population so as to stop the whining so we can truly become a "Switzerland off the coast of France".

On April 24 2018 18:08 Dapper_Cad wrote:
I think Switzerland's small population very much does play into it's stability. It's what makes successful tax havens and resource based autocracies work: lots of cash / low pop = wealthy pop. Tax havens -once they make the natural move from simply being tax havens to "secrecy jurisdictions"- steal money from other countries and, because your population is so small the people making the real dough can afford to spread it around enough that the locals feel wealthy compared with neighbouring countries.

As a Brit, I'd like to offer my Swiss brethren a tax-haven-economy-soaked-in-the-blood-and-poverty-of-the-most-vulnerable-people-in-the-world HIGH FIVE. With luck the masters of Britain will exterminate 90% of the British population so as to stop the whining so we can truly become a "Switzerland off the coast of France".

On April 24 2018 18:09 SoSexy wrote:
Only found links in Spanish: https://www.eldiario.es/tenerifeahora/tribunales/Jacinto-Siverio-justicia-Espana-entrare_0_760474915.html

On April 24 2018 19:47 Godwrath wrote:

What do you want to know exactly ? National headlines i am not sure because i am from Tenerife and i already knew about it.

On April 24 2018 19:56 SoSexy wrote:


Your opinion on the matter and I was also curios about the popular jury, I thought Spain had a system like Italy where there is no popular jury* (I mean like US one)?

On April 24 2018 19:47 Godwrath wrote:

What do you want to know exactly ? National headlines i am not sure because i am from Tenerife and i already knew about it.

On April 22 2018 04:11 Nyxisto wrote:
1. The tragedy of the commons can be criticised when certain conditions don't apply, for example when a resource is renewable (think drinking out of a river that is practically limitless), but it is certainly true in cases of limited, depleting resources. And many scenarios where we talk about resource usage fall into that category. The articles don't really make a convincing point why that isn't supposed to be true. You can either privatize or regulate the commons. The counter-example of 'communal organisation' to protect the commons is simply a case of the latter on a local scale. When communities protect the commons, they do it by socially, or culturally ostracizing individuals that violate community trust. A little more romantic than state regulation, but basically the parochial version of the same mechanism.

2. In functioning democracies representatives are responsible for the decisions they make and have to face their constituents, it's always flawed of course but still mostly true in many developed democratic countries. If you cut people's benefits you're going to get the feedback at the next election, and it usually isn't very nice which is why groups like pensioners are almost always courted by politicians.

Direct democracy only holds people responsible when the effects of your vote affect you personally. This might be true in a municipality where direct democracy isn't much of a problem, but it doesn't work on a scale of large countries. If some xenophobe votes on a headscarf ban that affects Muslims that live three states away, how is that person held accountable? Why is he even supposed to have that right?

3. Not all racism is the result of 'small minorities manipulating majorities'. That's conspiratory like thinking that's even itself the root of vile racist theories. It's the underlying logic of "the manipulative Jews destroy the clean and moral fabric of our communities". It's an extremely dangerous idea honestly. And the rise of true egalitarian democracy in the 20st century has in fact, for the most part, ended colonialism. I'd not characterise 19th century societies, without women's suffrage as extremely democratic

4. Categorical rights and democracy are at odds. If I have a constitutional right, the majority can't infringe on it. Some fundamental individual liberties might easily fall prey to mass hysteria. Privacy and civil rights for example in the face of terrorist threats. In fact the idea of universal human rights is at odds with decision making. If something is a fundamental human right, no body of citizens, no matter how numerous, is supposed to be able to take it from me.

On April 24 2018 22:23 TheDwf wrote:

1. Regardless of whether the "tragedy of commons" is real or not, I don't understand why you mention it since "democracy" isn't a finite resource to begin with?

2. Regardless of the system, whoever takes the decision is responsible. Discriminations can be outlawed by the Constitution, so I don't understand your "headscarf ban" example.

3. Cut the "conspirationism" crap please, I'm talking about the rhetoric of far-right demagogues like Trump or Orban, who use xenophobia/racism to hide the fact that they're corrupt oligarchs themselves, and similar cases of people from the ruling class manipulating masses with scapegoats.

4. I don't understand why you constantly make this opposition. Even with more direct forms of democracy, you can (and should) perfectly define an incompressible minimal threshold of rights and liberties. Direct democracy does not mean that people can decide to torture you if they gather 51% of the votes...

On April 24 2018 22:36 Acrofales wrote:

The tragedy of the commons applies to democracy because the government is in charge of administering many finite resources. I don't think tragedy of the commons is the best way of describing the problem of administering these unfairly: it is more a problem of the tyranny of the majority, something that is better touched upon in point numbers 2 amd 4, which you don't really deal with adequately.

What if the majority doesn't decide to torture you. They just decide that you have to sit in the back of the bus, because the front of the bus is reserved for *whatever majority group successfully lobbied for votes*. You state the constitution should limit the power of the majority, but who writes up the constitution, and how does it get changed, and why is this not subject to the very same direct democracy system that you are advocating?

The tyranny of the majority is a real problem, and one of the things representative democracy, separation of powers, and various other institutional structures are designed to alleviate.

On April 24 2018 22:36 Acrofales wrote:

The tragedy of the commons applies to democracy because the government is in charge of administering many finite resources.

What if the majority doesn't decide to torture you. They just decide that you have to sit in the back of the bus, because the front of the bus is reserved for *whatever majority group successfully lobbied for votes*. You state the constitution should limit the power of the majority, but who writes up the constitution, and how does it get changed, and why is this not subject to the very same direct democracy system that you are advocating?

On April 24 2018 19:36 Velr wrote:


Switzerlands economy is pretty similar to Germanies when you take a closer look. Banks/Insurances are a bit more than 10% of our GDP while construction/producing stuff sits close to 20%. The success is not based on being a tax haven.
You might also want to take a look at jersey and other channel Islands. Its also worth noting that the same laws about hiding money work in switzerland itself too, yet enough people seem to pay their taxes anyway.

Btw: With Brexit you obviously have taken the first step to become "Switzerland off the coast of France". Just don't forget to also rebuild your industry while your at it.

On April 24 2018 19:05 Nebuchad wrote:
Your resentment is sound. Now you just have to apply it to the people actually doing the cheating and we're all set.

On April 24 2018 18:08 Dapper_Cad wrote:
Yes, as I implied in my post, it's the same in British Crown dependencies and overseas territories (Though more extreme with less industry and population) : Jersey, Guernsey, The isle of Man, Bermuda, the British Virgin Islands and the Cayman Islands and to an extent London itself - the centre of the spider's web. [..]

On April 25 2018 00:31 Dapper_Cad wrote:
So take issue with the thief but not the fence? I'm not sure that makes any sense.

On April 25 2018 00:53 Nebuchad wrote:


You can do the thief and the fence if you're so inclined. Just don't forget the thief, cause he's not really going to run out of fences after you get us down.

On April 25 2018 02:20 Velr wrote:
I mainly find it funny that these accusation come from a Brit. A nation that built itself on exploiting colonies.
I don't even disagree in principle, I just take offense to the notion that Switzerland is mainly built on being a tax oasis and money laundeting paradise because thats just not true or at least not any more than for many, many other countries and britain with its territories also being a prime offender.