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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
The compromise for direct democracy after 4%(FPÖ election program) and 10%(ÖVP election program) of the electorate have signed a petition to become a plebescite seems to be 900.000 people (~15%), but not before 2022 and only on non-budget issues. Or as Norbert Hofer put it before the election: "We will have to meet in the middle." Someone slaughter them please! | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10700 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
It was linked from Marcel Fratzscher's (German economist) Twitter Account. First comment under it was a French guy (Mathieu Perona) saying: "I'd like to see the same graph *excluding* real estate. It could be driven only by increasing house prices." Googling him only gave me results in French, no clue who he is. Anyways, why I mention it: It's this remarkable Leninism of liberalism that strikes again. When it comes to any price/wage discussion, it's always "the market that determines the value". When someone tells them how rich they are, it's "not real" because it is real estate and firm values and we all know that this isn't really worth that much!!!!! Of course it is worth that much. For those who pay those prices, which is always the only measure of wealth possible. Of course we can discuss, why real estate prices are that high that they "feel" unrealistic to almost everyone. It is because our property model allows for infinite access to limited (spatial) resources. Infinite time (guaranteed against nature by inheritance) multiplied with even the slightest amount of money you can extract means you can pay any price as a one-time payment for real estate and profit from it in the longrun. So the price will converge to infinity in the longrun, the question is just the speed of it which is determined by: a) are there better investment opportunities b) have we reached a social border when extracting money (rent) is having such a huge, negative impact on the economy (people cutting other expenses) that there is going to be political action/war/revolution that is killing this undoubtably retarted property distribution or the principle as a whole. We have reached a point where b) is spiraling so hard, that it is becoming increasingly hard for a) to be considered. Or in other words, due to the extreme distribution situation economic growth is becoming more and more expensive, leading to extreme debt-situations of the private industry and of states. Which in turn fuels those, who lend the money, hence he extreme distribution situation. Without an inbuilt reset mechanism (expiry date on property/money, extreme inheritance taxation) this economic system is bound to collapse eventually - or some war/civil unrest will reset it. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 18 2017 21:45 Velr wrote: Why this rise/unstableness in Germany and France?` People lost their money in war/economic crisis/war. There is not a lot you can inherit when your parents money was used to fuel a war and their property has been bombed. Also it is much easier to make money, when there are fewer rich that keep the prices high and the resources exclusive, so the relation of non-inheritance money is naturally higher. Money is always just relative to its overall amount. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10700 Posts
It drops everywhere from 1950 --> 1970/80. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 18 2017 23:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote: There's probably a line which can be drawn for WW1, WW2 and 1986. It's a bit strange that the data is a 10 point moving average but whatever. Data on the subject is rather sparse I would guess, that's why 10-year averages probably make sense. Since huge amounts of money are transfered between very few people government keeps the top parts of such statistics a secret for privacy reasons, as from the public statistics one could deduce the amount of money/property owned/inherited. So detailed statistics may be hard to create to begin with, especially when working with 100-year old tax data and wealth estimations. Also it would vary wildely on a year-to-year basis, as sometimes no superrich die and sometimes multiple ones die in one year. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On December 18 2017 23:08 Velr wrote: That doesn't really make sense? It drops everywhere from 1950 --> 1970/80. faster economic growth than return on wealth during the 'golden age of capitalism', larger in Germany because much wealth was eradicated after ww2 and the graph is relative. That would be my guess at least | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10700 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Bring em home.  | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 19 2017 19:41 Big J wrote: My "favorite" plan of the new government must still be to grant people from South Tyrol of Austrian- and Ladin-decent citizenship. They don't know how to do it, where to get the data from, which is the actual criterion for descendancy and Italy from left to right is pretty pissed about it. But hey, it's a matter of heart for the FPÖ. Bring em home. Shall they reclaim all the lost possessions of the House of the Habsburg and reestablish the « Austria Est Imperare Orbi Universo » motto too? + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Europe_en_1547_par_Mister_Shek.jpg) | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10700 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 20 2017 02:44 TheDwf wrote: Shall they reclaim all the lost possessions of the House of the Habsburg and reestablish the « Austria Est Imperare Orbi Universo » motto too? + Show Spoiler + I blame the French. You guys had to become all liberal and democratic and take everyone down with you. We even sent you an expert on socialeconomic matters to fix your problems, but no, you didn't want to listen to Marie Antoinette! You should have just eaten cake and shut up about the bread prices. Who likes bread anyways? It's just because of your baguette fetish! And then you had to take Germany down with you, spread your liberte, egalite, fraternity everywhere. You knew very well how easily they can be influenced. Marx and the fucking SPD completely wrecked the German bourgeoise. It's gonna take centuries until we have them under control again... But we can finally rejoice, austria has a chancellor in Marie Antoinette's spirit again, who understands the current problems: "If you are too poor to rent, just buy property!" He's going to fix your mistakes! | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10700 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 20 2017 03:36 Velr wrote: You also could just have won against napoleon or ww1. But you suck. It was not possible to beat Napoleon with the high moral standards of absolutism and without the combined power of the European Empires. He totally abused weapons to kill people and win battles, like the Korsikan underprivileged he was. You can't beat that with a noble strategy of outmaneuvering and waiting for their surrender. And then in WW1 it was too late, way too many socialists and democrats everywhere. As always, civilization loses against savage anarchists if it doesn't stand united! | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
A solid answer for any problem in the world: http://brilliantmaps.com/every-country-invaded-france/ You guys had to become all liberal and democratic and take everyone down with you. We even sent you an expert on socialeconomic matters to fix your problems, but no, you didn't want to listen to Marie Antoinette! You should have just eaten cake and shut up about the bread prices. Who likes bread anyways? It's just because of your baguette fetish! And then you had to take Germany down with you, spread your liberte, egalite, fraternity everywhere. You knew very well how easily they can be influenced. Marx and the fucking SPD completely wrecked the German bourgeoise. It's gonna take centuries until we have them under control again... But we can finally rejoice, austria has a chancellor in Marie Antoinette's spirit again, who understands the current problems: "If you are too poor to rent, just buy property!" He's going to fix your mistakes! Hahaha did he really say that? | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10700 Posts
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On December 20 2017 03:00 Velr wrote: Depends, if the Ottomans would crush europe instead i would go for Habsburg. Balkans and Russia were enough to crush the Ottomans. Proof: history. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9193 Posts
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