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European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1019

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
December 21 2017 09:38 GMT
#20361
On December 21 2017 18:22 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2017 17:54 Big J wrote:
So this friend of mine has a friend who got layed off for being rude towards the boss and some other employees. Never made it into the newspapers though. I wonder why? Maybe there wasn't an agenda to be pushed...


Did his boss also attack him physically?


Counterquestion: Did the train officers worker-rights make an exception for being physically attacked? If not, maybe next time vote in favor of workers rights and a proper distribution of power instead of running to daddy government to overrule contractual rights of the employer when it pleases your agenda.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9191 Posts
December 21 2017 09:47 GMT
#20362
We know he was fired, we don't know if his employer had the right to fire him like that.
You're now breathing manually
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-21 09:56:43
December 21 2017 09:54 GMT
#20363
On December 21 2017 18:47 Sent. wrote:
We know he was fired, we don't know if his employer had the right to fire him like that.


True, but then the issue simply becomes a question of making the legal system work for everyone, regardless of money or social position.
And that may be the case anyways, which would make it a rather apolitical topic.
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18401 Posts
December 21 2017 10:10 GMT
#20364
On December 21 2017 08:48 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2017 08:04 SoSexy wrote:
Listen to the latest cool episode in Italy.
A train officer was checking tickets - a person from Senegal did not have the ticket and attacked him, stealing his electronic checking device and his POS terminal. A fight ensued and while they were beating each other the train officer got upset and shouted the N word. What happened at the end? The train officer got FIRED... story here, don't believe there is an english source: http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2017/12/20/news/capotreno_licenziato_cremona_insulti-184654234/?ref=RHRS-BH-I0-C6-P11-S1.6-T1

I don't see any problem


You dont see a problem when you get fired for being attacked?
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
December 21 2017 10:45 GMT
#20365
On December 21 2017 19:10 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2017 08:48 TheDwf wrote:
On December 21 2017 08:04 SoSexy wrote:
Listen to the latest cool episode in Italy.
A train officer was checking tickets - a person from Senegal did not have the ticket and attacked him, stealing his electronic checking device and his POS terminal. A fight ensued and while they were beating each other the train officer got upset and shouted the N word. What happened at the end? The train officer got FIRED... story here, don't believe there is an english source: http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2017/12/20/news/capotreno_licenziato_cremona_insulti-184654234/?ref=RHRS-BH-I0-C6-P11-S1.6-T1

I don't see any problem


You dont see a problem when you get fired for being attacked?

I don't see any problem with punishing racial slurs, but in fact I am not for firing workers like that
Dapper_Cad
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom964 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-21 11:34:05
December 21 2017 11:32 GMT
#20366
On December 21 2017 19:45 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2017 19:10 sharkie wrote:
On December 21 2017 08:48 TheDwf wrote:
On December 21 2017 08:04 SoSexy wrote:
Listen to the latest cool episode in Italy.
A train officer was checking tickets - a person from Senegal did not have the ticket and attacked him, stealing his electronic checking device and his POS terminal. A fight ensued and while they were beating each other the train officer got upset and shouted the N word. What happened at the end? The train officer got FIRED... story here, don't believe there is an english source: http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2017/12/20/news/capotreno_licenziato_cremona_insulti-184654234/?ref=RHRS-BH-I0-C6-P11-S1.6-T1

I don't see any problem


You dont see a problem when you get fired for being attacked?

I don't see any problem with punishing racial slurs, but in fact I am not for firing workers like that


Personally I'm for scouring every newspaper in Europe for examples that confirm my theory that people with dark skin are "culturally" inferior and that this fact is obscured by a bleeding heart liberal elite as the thin end of the wedge for an ideology of white replacement backed by a Jewish conspiracy while ignoring that the world is burning.

To each their own I guess.
But he is never making short-term prediction, everyone of his prediction are based on fundenmentals, but he doesn't exactly know when it will happen... So using these kind of narrowed "who-is-right" empirical analysis makes little sense.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11505 Posts
December 21 2017 11:44 GMT
#20367
On December 21 2017 20:32 Dapper_Cad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2017 19:45 TheDwf wrote:
On December 21 2017 19:10 sharkie wrote:
On December 21 2017 08:48 TheDwf wrote:
On December 21 2017 08:04 SoSexy wrote:
Listen to the latest cool episode in Italy.
A train officer was checking tickets - a person from Senegal did not have the ticket and attacked him, stealing his electronic checking device and his POS terminal. A fight ensued and while they were beating each other the train officer got upset and shouted the N word. What happened at the end? The train officer got FIRED... story here, don't believe there is an english source: http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2017/12/20/news/capotreno_licenziato_cremona_insulti-184654234/?ref=RHRS-BH-I0-C6-P11-S1.6-T1

I don't see any problem


You dont see a problem when you get fired for being attacked?

I don't see any problem with punishing racial slurs, but in fact I am not for firing workers like that


Personally I'm for scouring every newspaper in Europe for examples that confirm my theory that people with dark skin are "culturally" inferior and that this fact is obscured by a bleeding heart liberal elite as the thin end of the wedge for an ideology of white replacement backed by a Jewish conspiracy while ignoring that the world is burning.

To each their own I guess.


I assume that is sarcasm? It is hard to tell on the internet, as there are people who actually hold that position.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
December 21 2017 11:53 GMT
#20368
What does "scouring" mean here?
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21665 Posts
December 21 2017 11:57 GMT
#20369
On December 21 2017 20:53 TheDwf wrote:
What does "scouring" mean here?

thoroughly search.

subject (a place, text, etc.) to a thorough search in order to locate something.
"David scoured each newspaper for an article on the murder"
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-21 12:26:57
December 21 2017 12:02 GMT
#20370
On December 21 2017 08:48 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2017 08:04 SoSexy wrote:
Listen to the latest cool episode in Italy.
A train officer was checking tickets - a person from Senegal did not have the ticket and attacked him, stealing his electronic checking device and his POS terminal. A fight ensued and while they were beating each other the train officer got upset and shouted the N word. What happened at the end? The train officer got FIRED... story here, don't believe there is an english source: http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2017/12/20/news/capotreno_licenziato_cremona_insulti-184654234/?ref=RHRS-BH-I0-C6-P11-S1.6-T1

I don't see any problem


Because your eyes are closed. This shit is disgusting, exactly like you are. One is doing a shit job, is attacked and robbed and all prosecution cares about is that during those moments he got mad and shouted an insult. He's a stupid ass for not keeping his composure under an assault and robbery! NExt time he shall shout, but politely and without using certain words.

Do you see how wrong this is? At the end of the day we have a hard-working, honest guy who got fired because he got assaulted and a violent thief who is laughing at the justice system. Have you ever been attacked or robbed? Do you know what it feels like?? People like you should be restricted from voting because they are clearly detached from reality. But don't worry, one day it's gonna be payback for all the people you fucked over with this mindset.
Dating thread on TL LUL
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
December 21 2017 12:53 GMT
#20371
One is doing "a shit job" and all right-wingers care for is that employers shouldn't be allowed to fire them when behaving racist in a defensive reaction. It doesn't make one wonder why rich people pump so much money into your parties to combat everything that would try to turn that "shit job" into a better paid one.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
December 21 2017 13:09 GMT
#20372
On December 21 2017 21:02 SoSexy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2017 08:48 TheDwf wrote:
On December 21 2017 08:04 SoSexy wrote:
Listen to the latest cool episode in Italy.
A train officer was checking tickets - a person from Senegal did not have the ticket and attacked him, stealing his electronic checking device and his POS terminal. A fight ensued and while they were beating each other the train officer got upset and shouted the N word. What happened at the end? The train officer got FIRED... story here, don't believe there is an english source: http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2017/12/20/news/capotreno_licenziato_cremona_insulti-184654234/?ref=RHRS-BH-I0-C6-P11-S1.6-T1

I don't see any problem


Because your eyes are closed. This shit is disgusting, exactly like you are. One is doing a shit job, is attacked and robbed and all prosecution cares about is that during those moments he got mad and shouted an insult. He's a stupid ass for not keeping his composure under an assault and robbery! NExt time he shall shout, but politely and without using certain words. Have you ever been attacked or robbed? Do you know what it feels like? People like you should be restricted from voting because they are clearly detached from reality.

I see that my little provocation worked, I was sure that you would get mad. As a matter of fact, right-wing authoritarians persons like you are a much bigger threat to democracy than people like me, as you would accept any dangerous demagogue to bring “law and order” in your country; while people like me know better than picking anecdotes with perception bias to prove that strangers/people of color/Muslims/whatever are dooming our societies.

Being attacked sucks and I am sure that everyone condemns the aggression, but if the fight involved a white native the officer would never insult him of “filthy white” or “shit Italian” despite being in the same state of anger. Ask yourself why “shit nigger” came to his lips. But of course you don't care since you think that racist reactions are justified (and not just in this heated situation).

My eyes are not closed, as I understand far better than you how our stupid societies organize shortage, then make little people pit against each other for some crumbs at the bottom. If you were more rational and able to cast aside for a minute your hilariously wrong “justice protects strangers and delinquents against honest natives” narrative, you would ask yourself why free public transportations lowers the number of that kind of aggressions. You could also see that the kind of left to which I belong defends better work conditions for workers like your train officer, along with a rise of their wages; while “law and order” candidates are the ones who cut jobs and freeze wages.

The irony is that what you deem as my “lax approach” would have saved your train officer if I was in charge of his case, as I don't believe in the punitive approach and thus I would not have fired him.
[DUF]MethodMan
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Germany1716 Posts
December 21 2017 14:01 GMT
#20373
On December 21 2017 22:09 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2017 21:02 SoSexy wrote:
On December 21 2017 08:48 TheDwf wrote:
On December 21 2017 08:04 SoSexy wrote:
Listen to the latest cool episode in Italy.
A train officer was checking tickets - a person from Senegal did not have the ticket and attacked him, stealing his electronic checking device and his POS terminal. A fight ensued and while they were beating each other the train officer got upset and shouted the N word. What happened at the end? The train officer got FIRED... story here, don't believe there is an english source: http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2017/12/20/news/capotreno_licenziato_cremona_insulti-184654234/?ref=RHRS-BH-I0-C6-P11-S1.6-T1

I don't see any problem


Because your eyes are closed. This shit is disgusting, exactly like you are. One is doing a shit job, is attacked and robbed and all prosecution cares about is that during those moments he got mad and shouted an insult. He's a stupid ass for not keeping his composure under an assault and robbery! NExt time he shall shout, but politely and without using certain words. Have you ever been attacked or robbed? Do you know what it feels like? People like you should be restricted from voting because they are clearly detached from reality.

I see that my little provocation worked, I was sure that you would get mad. As a matter of fact, right-wing authoritarians persons like you are a much bigger threat to democracy than people like me, as you would accept any dangerous demagogue to bring “law and order” in your country; while people like me know better than picking anecdotes with perception bias to prove that strangers/people of color/Muslims/whatever are dooming our societies.

Being attacked sucks and I am sure that everyone condemns the aggression, but if the fight involved a white native the officer would never insult him of “filthy white” or “shit Italian” despite being in the same state of anger. Ask yourself why “shit nigger” came to his lips. But of course you don't care since you think that racist reactions are justified (and not just in this heated situation).

My eyes are not closed, as I understand far better than you how our stupid societies organize shortage, then make little people pit against each other for some crumbs at the bottom. If you were more rational and able to cast aside for a minute your hilariously wrong “justice protects strangers and delinquents against honest natives” narrative, you would ask yourself why free public transportations lowers the number of that kind of aggressions. You could also see that the kind of left to which I belong defends better work conditions for workers like your train officer, along with a rise of their wages; while “law and order” candidates are the ones who cut jobs and freeze wages.

The irony is that what you deem as my “lax approach” would have saved your train officer if I was in charge of his case, as I don't believe in the punitive approach and thus I would not have fired him.


You're arguing out of utopia, while the case happened in the real world. Public transport has to be paid for, thus there is a need for officers who check tickets. Why "shit nigger" came to his lips? Because it's the worst possible insult he could think of, not because he thought him to be inferior in some way. If I call you a frog eating, unclean, backstabbing baguette, do I really think you are one of these things or do I want to insult you? Get fucking real.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
December 21 2017 14:09 GMT
#20374
On December 21 2017 23:01 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2017 22:09 TheDwf wrote:
On December 21 2017 21:02 SoSexy wrote:
On December 21 2017 08:48 TheDwf wrote:
On December 21 2017 08:04 SoSexy wrote:
Listen to the latest cool episode in Italy.
A train officer was checking tickets - a person from Senegal did not have the ticket and attacked him, stealing his electronic checking device and his POS terminal. A fight ensued and while they were beating each other the train officer got upset and shouted the N word. What happened at the end? The train officer got FIRED... story here, don't believe there is an english source: http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2017/12/20/news/capotreno_licenziato_cremona_insulti-184654234/?ref=RHRS-BH-I0-C6-P11-S1.6-T1

I don't see any problem


Because your eyes are closed. This shit is disgusting, exactly like you are. One is doing a shit job, is attacked and robbed and all prosecution cares about is that during those moments he got mad and shouted an insult. He's a stupid ass for not keeping his composure under an assault and robbery! NExt time he shall shout, but politely and without using certain words. Have you ever been attacked or robbed? Do you know what it feels like? People like you should be restricted from voting because they are clearly detached from reality.

I see that my little provocation worked, I was sure that you would get mad. As a matter of fact, right-wing authoritarians persons like you are a much bigger threat to democracy than people like me, as you would accept any dangerous demagogue to bring “law and order” in your country; while people like me know better than picking anecdotes with perception bias to prove that strangers/people of color/Muslims/whatever are dooming our societies.

Being attacked sucks and I am sure that everyone condemns the aggression, but if the fight involved a white native the officer would never insult him of “filthy white” or “shit Italian” despite being in the same state of anger. Ask yourself why “shit nigger” came to his lips. But of course you don't care since you think that racist reactions are justified (and not just in this heated situation).

My eyes are not closed, as I understand far better than you how our stupid societies organize shortage, then make little people pit against each other for some crumbs at the bottom. If you were more rational and able to cast aside for a minute your hilariously wrong “justice protects strangers and delinquents against honest natives” narrative, you would ask yourself why free public transportations lowers the number of that kind of aggressions. You could also see that the kind of left to which I belong defends better work conditions for workers like your train officer, along with a rise of their wages; while “law and order” candidates are the ones who cut jobs and freeze wages.

The irony is that what you deem as my “lax approach” would have saved your train officer if I was in charge of his case, as I don't believe in the punitive approach and thus I would not have fired him.


You're arguing out of utopia, while the case happened in the real world. Public transport has to be paid for, thus there is a need for officers who check tickets. Why "shit nigger" came to his lips? Because it's the worst possible insult he could think of, not because he thought him to be inferior in some way. If I call you a frog eating, unclean, backstabbing baguette, do I really think you are one of these things or do I want to insult you? Get fucking real.

Why do I insult people again? With clearly racial slurs?
Oh yes, because I appreciate the human in front of me, totally forgot. Thanks for reminding me.
passive quaranstream fan
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10698 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-21 14:20:03
December 21 2017 14:18 GMT
#20375
I wouldn't have fired him for it. A stupid slurr in a very heated moment. If he wasn't acting racist before i would let it go. We don't fire people for (silent) controversial beliefs last I checked.

But its hilarious as usual when the right wing is suddenly ok with breaking laws or company doctrine just because it hurts one of the supposedly surpressed white guys.

I also hope the other guy was charged.

Btw: You insult people to hurt them, so using the most loaded word doesn't necessarily make you a racist. You just acted racist in that moment.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-21 14:46:16
December 21 2017 14:41 GMT
#20376
Google translate of the article says On 24 January 2018, Moussa Diatta , 23, resident in Brescia, will be tried by the gup of the court of Brescia for robbery. So the other guy will probably be charged.

Anyhow, reading the article the employee wasn't fired for being attacked he got fired for inappropriate behaviour. For all we know he could be fired because he was biting the man or company policy was to not try to recover the items violently. Or perhaps the employee was using the words excessively as opposed to singlely in the moment. I agree that if it was shouted in the middle of the fight once, he should not had been fired, but we simply don't have all the facts. Why would a train company decide to fire the employee, unless they either got a public complaint, or they were looking for a reason to fire him internally anyways, or the events as narrated don't match to the event? It's just extra work for HR. We don't have the information, and in any case I don't see how this is related to politics at all, but apparently for sosexy, the politics thread is just an excuse for an opportunity to stir up racial resentment.
Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
December 21 2017 15:02 GMT
#20377
On December 21 2017 23:41 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Google translate of the article says On 24 January 2018, Moussa Diatta , 23, resident in Brescia, will be tried by the gup of the court of Brescia for robbery. So the other guy will probably be charged.

Anyhow, reading the article the employee wasn't fired for being attacked he got fired for inappropriate behaviour. For all we know he could be fired because he was biting the man or company policy was to not try to recover the items violently. Or perhaps the employee was using the words excessively as opposed to singlely in the moment. I agree that if it was shouted in the middle of the fight once, he should not had been fired, but we simply don't have all the facts. Why would a train company decide to fire the employee, unless they either got a public complaint, or they were looking for a reason to fire him internally anyways, or the events as narrated don't match to the event? It's just extra work for HR. We don't have the information, and in any case I don't see how this is related to politics at all, but apparently for sosexy, the politics thread is just an excuse for an opportunity to stir up racial resentment.


I was waiting for this post. People are getting upset based on Sosexy's totally unbiased story. None of us have enough information to say whether it was right or wrong to fire him.
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
December 21 2017 18:52 GMT
#20378
On December 21 2017 23:18 Velr wrote:

Btw: You insult people to hurt them, so using the most loaded word doesn't necessarily make you a racist. You just acted racist in that moment.


The only one who got this. You need to seriously stop seeing racism everywhere - you insult to insult.I would like to see the same situation with a gay person as the attacker and the train officer saying 'vaffanculo' (which is the italian version of 'fuck you' but meaning more like 'go take it in the ass'). What a terrible homophobe! Anyways, this mentally ill policy is making the parties supporting it losing so many votes that it will be its own undoing.

Now, to respond to the guy still living in 1848 aka TheDwf. I understand you like Marx and I understand you have a boner when you talk about historical materialism but the world is not the same. You are still applying categories that do not exist anymore. Marx's analysis is on point on many things, but you treat it like it was the Holy Word of God.

It is not.

Even Frankfurt School realized this, yet everytime you go with the same charade. According to you,with free public transportation this problem would be resolved. So your solution to people not buying the tickets is remove tickets - is this your plan concerning fiscal evasion too? It's incredible that you can't see how, even if we adopt free public transportation, there will be tensions because economy is not the magic wand that explains everything about human society. According to this deranged reasoning, 'high powers' pin poor people one against each other. I hate corporations but you have to understand that certain topics go above that. If my Afghan neighbour infibulates his daughter, you can talk shit about high powers but it's not the issue there. No free ticket will solve that issue.

What is next in your agenda? Adopt universal income and terrorism will stop?

Here's the video of the aggression, which happened in September. Can't find it on youtube but this is a legit italian newspaper: http://video.corriere.it/chiede-biglietto-controllore-aggredito-rapinato-arrestato-senegalese/4945beae-a359-11e7-a066-220c02125bda

Poor guy...you can see how that word really troubled him and made him sad. Passengers shitting their pants is pathetic but if they attack him they are going to jail. I hope I never see something like this because I would not be able to ignore it. Fuck that pig. (Did I offend pig lovers?)

Dating thread on TL LUL
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-21 19:10:12
December 21 2017 19:07 GMT
#20379
On December 21 2017 23:18 Velr wrote:
I wouldn't have fired him for it. A stupid slurr in a very heated moment. If he wasn't acting racist before i would let it go. We don't fire people for (silent) controversial beliefs last I checked.


Well if it was silent we by definition wouldn't talk about it. If it was a private belief we wouldn't be talking about it either. We've never fired someone for being a racist, because we don't have any technology to detect anybody's internal racism. We do however fire people for throwing racially charged slurs around, because speaking out in public is, although some people seem to confuse it, not the same as privately thinking something.

Sure, it's a somewhat heated situation, but we expect grown adults to have the mental faculties to control what they say or do. It's really not that difficult

There is absolutely no contradiction here. Assaulting someone on a train is a crime and ought to be punished, and throwing the n-word around is too, so we ought to punish that as well.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
December 21 2017 19:08 GMT
#20380
On December 22 2017 03:52 SoSexy wrote:
Even Frankfurt School realized this, yet everytime you go with the same charade. According to you,with free public transportation this problem would be resolved. So your solution to people not buying the tickets is remove tickets - is this your plan concerning fiscal evasion too? It's incredible that you can't see how, even if we adopt free public transportation, there will be tensions because economy is not the magic wand that explains everything about human society. According to this deranged reasoning, 'high powers' pin poor people one against each other. I hate corporations but you have to understand that certain topics go above that. If my Afghan neighbour infibulates his daughter, you can talk shit about high powers but it's not the issue there. No free ticket will solve that issue.

What is next in your agenda? Adopt universal income and terrorism will stop?

Nah, free tickets should solve terrorism too, they're really versatile
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