EPTJust get real ffs. If some immigrant is an asshole, send him back/jail him. No one cares if he had a troubled past, he hurt people right here.
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1020
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Velr
Switzerland10694 Posts
Just get real ffs. If some immigrant is an asshole, send him back/jail him. No one cares if he had a troubled past, he hurt people right here. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRl6lEMXkAEo-S4.jpg) Some poll for today's Catalunya election—still too close to call. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 22 2017 04:08 TheDwf wrote: Nah, free tickets should solve terrorism too, they're really versatile yo, what legit impressed me the most on my vacation: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/9qG7g39.jpg) You just have a card in your wallet that you can charge, have it on 30€ or whatever, go through the gates while holding your wallet next to it, it peeps once as confirmation, you get on the train, you leave through the same kind of ticket gate at your destination and it automatically calculates what your transfercost is and subtracts that from your card. Would probably need some changes to be doable as for example a local train from betweem Cologne<->Frankfurt does have a different prizetag than an ICE fare but man was that convenient and thus everyone paid without the need of checking tickets on the trains as you don't get into the train-area without paying. Gabe Newell really says some smart things sometimes. You don't need to make it free, just make it less of a bother. On the case itself: Yeah, I don't think anyone is (or should be) arguing wether or not the immigrant should be punished. Of course he should be. Wether they should have fired the employee depends on context for me. If it's just the slur you don't fire him for that and I find it HIGHLY unlikely that he was fired for that. Which means I don't really believe what SoSexy is telling us and think he was fired for some other reason. Can't judge that without more knowledge on what kind of policy he broke. But seriously, as shitty as the slur might be you don't fire people for that. You get a verbal (!) warning if it's the first time, maybe a written one if the guy has some past to him. And if he has even more stuff that happened in the past you do fire him but certainly not on the spot for just that. You have to do ridiculously stupid things to be fired on the spot, at least in Germany. And I had the unpleasant experience of having to fire someone just the other day. I've had heard about people mobbing other people they work with because he had a mental illness which resulted in the person (understandably) not comming back to work. Which obviously got me really mad but even that wasn't enough to fire on the spot (it resulted in the harshest written warning I've ever read though, so probably not the best example). So tl;dr: I find it REEEEALLY unlikely that the guy was fired for just the slur. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
Now, he did three things: 1) asked for the ticket 2) got beaten 3) threw the N word Which one you do think triggered the 'not fit behaviour'? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 22 2017 05:04 SoSexy wrote: Fired for 'Comportamento non consono alle mansioni proprie della sua figura professionale e dell'azienda che lei comunque rappresenta' = 'Behaviour not fit to the duties of your professional figure and of the company that you nonetheless represent'. Now, he did three things: 1) asked for the ticket 2) got beaten 3) threw the N word Which one you do think triggered the 'not fit behaviour'? idk, the video you posted doesn't seem to be loading for me. It's only a picture for me. Maybe it's that he fought with someone on the train. Maybe if the guy tried to run away with the stolen ticket-machine he should not have chased and tried to start a fight [assumption on my part as I'm trying to make sense of this, as the video doesn't work. It's just an example of what could have happened], or something else like that. But you really don't fire someone for that unless he had some kind of past behavioral issues already. Maybe it just was the straw to break the camel's back | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 22 2017 05:16 SoSexy wrote: Doors were locked. The guy got robbed and beaten up...but ok, you have your assumptions. Anyways, on January 24th the aggressor will be in tribunal and we'll see what happens (my opinion: nothing will happen) and the train officer is trying to get his job back via a legal action. I'll write updates when the thing unfolds. I don't have my assumptions, I just have enough experience with this kind of thing that I know that you don't get to fire someone for JUST that. At least in Germany. Maybe it's a lot different in Italy but as it stands my guess would be the guy has baggage on him, this wasn't the only incident in his "career" and whoever is publishing this is going to for clickbait. I don't write the whole history of everything that happened if something happened either, you just write down the most recent one while pointing out that the guy already has had multiple warnings and be done with it. At least on the level of giving a statement. And really I don't care about this particular case. Maybe you are right and he really was a stellar employee with a white west. I just got in here to share my experience that, at least in my experience, you don't get to fire someone for that even if you want to as an employer. So if it turns out that it really was just that, yes, he'll sue and get his job back in an instant. But people who make these decisions don't usually make them without a second thought. But hey, maybe. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
https://resultats.parlament2017.cat/09AU/DAU09999CM.htm?lang=en | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
In any case, I don't understand the point you are making sosexy, other than that you don't believe that people shouldn't be fired for biting people and saying racial insults. Which is fair enough, I don't think the employee should be fired if the events played out exactly like you wrote. But what you write isn't quite what the links say. We don't have the full story. It's nice that you now bother to post sources of your own accord instead of just refusing to do so when asked, but they don't quite back up what you say. Btw toad, we have that same system in London. It was convenient up till they decided that it was to be the only way to pay for buses and tube. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
Also i am pretty sure if he was beaten to pulp, the reason to fire him is to avoid paying any kind of damages, rather than signalling a political stance. By the way, yes you do not confront robbers in a world where insurance exists, it's explicitly stated when you work anywhere where this can happen. It's not a matter of cowardice, but practicality, from employers to employees. But i can understand why he might attempt to stop the robber (at the end of the day, it can be a spontaneous reaction from him), and i don't think he should punished for doing so. But since the right wants to make as easy as possible to fire people, you get what you voted for. I have to agree with "how the hell does this make it to the news". My uncle got beaten pretty hard and almost lost an arm at his work from some robbers with a machete (he tried to stop them, adrenaline is a hell of a drug). I wonder why noone tried to made it viral. Maybe is it because they weren't foreigners ? | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
On December 22 2017 04:13 TheDwf wrote: Some poll for today's Catalunya election—still too close to call. Citizens "won", but they don't have the support for a minority goverment. Independentists do. TLDR Puidgemont won. I don't know how parliamentary sits work in Catalunya to see if there is a scenario where Citizens could rule through some abstentions, but anyways the positions are so polarized that it shouldn't matter. http://www.elmundo.es/elecciones/elecciones-cataluna/resultados/index.html | ||
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[DUF]MethodMan
Germany1716 Posts
On December 22 2017 05:36 Toadesstern wrote: I don't have my assumptions, I just have enough experience with this kind of thing that I know that you don't get to fire someone for JUST that. At least in Germany. Maybe it's a lot different in Italy but as it stands my guess would be the guy has baggage on him, this wasn't the only incident in his "career" and whoever is publishing this is going to for clickbait. I don't write the whole history of everything that happened if something happened either, you just write down the most recent one while pointing out that the guy already has had multiple warnings and be done with it. At least on the level of giving a statement. And really I don't care about this particular case. Maybe you are right and he really was a stellar employee with a white west. I just got in here to share my experience that, at least in my experience, you don't get to fire someone for that even if you want to as an employer. So if it turns out that it really was just that, yes, he'll sue and get his job back in an instant. But people who make these decisions don't usually make them without a second thought. But hey, maybe. Yeah right dude, people in Germany don't get fired over shit like this. Remember the cashier lady who took like 2€ worth of deposit bills she found in the store and got fired over that? This kinda stuff is happening everywhere and everyday and it's one of the reasons we have so many far right populists rising right now. It's the left dictating the discourse over the past 50 years while not keeping "their" politicians in check who rather got in bed with industry leaders and took a dump on their so called voter basis. Get real. On December 22 2017 10:29 Godwrath wrote: There is no video. All we have is your word that he got beaten up just because. Also i am pretty sure if he was beaten to pulp, the reason to fire him is to avoid paying any kind of damages, rather than signalling a political stance. By the way, yes you do not confront robbers in a world where insurance exists, it's explicitly stated when you work anywhere where this can happen. It's not a matter of cowardice, but practicality, from employers to employees. But i can understand why he might attempt to stop the robber (at the end of the day, it can be a spontaneous reaction from him), and i don't think he should punished for doing so. But since the right wants to make as easy as possible to fire people, you get what you voted for. I have to agree with "how the hell does this make it to the news". My uncle got beaten pretty hard and almost lost an arm at his work from some robbers with a machete (he tried to stop them, adrenaline is a hell of a drug). I wonder why noone tried to made it viral. Maybe is it because they weren't foreigners ? there's your video. Also, your uncle didn't lose his job over it. You guys would do anything to defend the poor guy who expected on top of free shelter, money etc. to get everything else for free. How about make people actually work shit jobs when they get here, unless they have qualification to get put to use elsewhere? There's obviously zero incentive or understanding for or from migrants who just arrived here when they heard on the internet everything's supposed to be free for them around here. And when they finally get here, then what? It's gonna be a shitty shelter you live with dozens of other people in, you get money that'd be nice if they could spend it in their homecountries but won't get you anywhere here. Just make them work and pay them less, still better than ending up a slave in Lybia. It's what happens to everyone else in Germany who tries to get social security, you get forced to work literally useless, shitty jobs for 1,50€/h and what you make will get substracted of your social security mind you. To think everyone else all over the world believes this country would be some kind of paradise just makes my mind boggle. State revenue is at an all time high, while spending is ever-decreasing. Housing is shit, educational system has been shit for forever, our police is shit, basically every institution bar the revenue board is shit. But this doesn't immediately affect poor Senegalese guy who certainly wouldn't have been violent ever if just those damn train tickets were free, so you don't care. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12161 Posts
On December 22 2017 11:46 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: You guys would do anything to defend the poor guy who expected on top of free shelter, money etc. to get everything else for free. If you actually believe in the things you claim, why do you feel the need to lie about your opponent's positions to further your arguments? Shouldn't they stand on their own? | ||
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[DUF]MethodMan
Germany1716 Posts
On December 22 2017 11:50 Nebuchad wrote: If you actually believe in the things you claim, why do you feel the need to lie about your opponent's positions to further your arguments? Shouldn't they stand on their own? Maybe you should've read my post more closely? First, Toadesstern tried to claim there wouldn't be anything like that firing in Germany. I corrected him. He "lied", applying your standards. Second, Godwrath claimed his uncle being beaten up so severely, he almost lost his arm and why there wasn't any media-craze about it. I corrected him, since his uncle didn't lose his job over it. What's your point again? | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12161 Posts
On December 22 2017 11:55 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: Maybe you should've read my post more closely? First, Toadesstern tried to claim there wouldn't be anything like that firing in Germany. I corrected him. He "lied", applying your standards. Second, Godwrath claimed his uncle being beaten up so severely, he almost lost his arm and why there wasn't any media-craze about it. I corrected him, since his uncle didn't lose his job over it. What's your point again? Portraying your opposition in this debate as "doing anything to defend the poor guy" who attacked on that train is a very clear lie. You knew that I was talking about that since I quoted a specific part of your post, and now you're trying to get me to talk about other parts of your post. Again, why? | ||
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[DUF]MethodMan
Germany1716 Posts
Btw, it's funny how you claim I'd want to make you talk about other points in my post. I am not. I could've lived without you calling me a liar. But after I checked a few of your older posts in this thread, it became pretty clear to me, it's actually you cherry-picking short passages of posts, trying to villify people who, in your head, have a racist agenda. How about you talk about the issue at hand and not what you might think of as provocation to have this thread shift from what you can't handle. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12161 Posts
On December 22 2017 12:05 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: Why would it be a lie? Both of them present anecdotal evidence, trying to make a case against that train officer. Both of them are wrong in their claims. Toadesstern, as usual, is talking about his "experience", which rather makes him sound like not having any of it at all. Godwrath compared apples and oranges. Again, what is your point? It would be a lie because you're pretending that their argument is in defense of the Senegalese guy, when it's not. | ||
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[DUF]MethodMan
Germany1716 Posts
On December 22 2017 12:12 Nebuchad wrote: It would be a lie because you're pretending that their argument is in defense of the Senegalese guy, when it's not. Alright, lets take this step by step for you. On December 22 2017 10:29 Godwrath wrote: There is no video. All we have is your word that he got beaten up just because. Wrong. It took me literally 2 seconds from the news article provided by SoSexy to get to it. The video (don't get upset when watching pls) paints one guy as the clear aggressor, the other guy as the clear victim. How convenient "there is no video", when we all know what we're gonna see. On December 22 2017 10:29 Godwrath wrote: Also i am pretty sure if he was beaten to pulp, the reason to fire him is to avoid paying any kind of damages, rather than signalling a political stance. "There is no PC agenda. Whites can't be victims of generalization or marginalization." On December 22 2017 10:29 Godwrath wrote: By the way, yes you do not confront robbers in a world where insurance exists, it's explicitly stated when you work anywhere where this can happen. It's not a matter of cowardice, but practicality, from employers to employees. "Victim shaming!!!" On December 22 2017 10:29 Godwrath wrote: But i can understand why he might attempt to stop the robber (at the end of the day, it can be a spontaneous reaction from him), and i don't think he should punished for doing so. But since the right wants to make as easy as possible to fire people, you get what you voted for. "Sorry for what happened to you. Then again you probably deserved it." On December 22 2017 10:29 Godwrath wrote: I have to agree with "how the hell does this make it to the news". My uncle got beaten pretty hard and almost lost an arm at his work from some robbers with a machete (he tried to stop them, adrenaline is a hell of a drug). I wonder why noone tried to made it viral. Maybe is it because they weren't foreigners ? Utterly unrelated anecdotal "evidence" to end it with "ya'll racist!". Can you see it? If not, don't bother replying. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12161 Posts
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